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Madara
2016-08-07, 04:55 PM
In an upcoming game, I have a player who very much wishes to collect contacts, abuse the secrets of others, and play a lovely game of manipulation. In the past, I have had other players desire something similar, with one player trying to start a guild of spies. While obviously most favors and interactions are eyeballed, I'm trying to establish a standard value for secrets. Assuming an NPC victim of moderate wealth(A successful silk trader) (Owns a house+ Operations a small business + 500 gold in liquid assets.)


Type of Information
Description
Example
Gold Value relative to Victim1


Minor Rumor
You know about an embarrassing piece of information regarding a character but lack any evidence.
Miss. Gladus has been gaining weight despite her approaching wedding.
Small bribe: 5% Assets


Minor Fact
You have information that could be proven and would diminish someone's reputation.
Harold doesn't actually keep a sword inside his family's scabbard, it's actually just a prop.
Small payoff: 10% Assets


Good Rumor
The information is likely to be believed despite a lack of evidence. Even if people don't believe it, the idea brings serious shame to the victim.
Robert sabotages his neighbor's crops.
Good Bribe: 10% Assets


Good Fact
You have solid evidence that would pose the victim to lose their station or honor, likely causing them a serious permanent setback.
The military records of the 'Colonel' Leonard Poldar show that he was never anything more than the lowest rung of soldier, despite the citizens of his village treating him like a national hero on account of his role in the war.
Good Payoff: 25% Assets


Major Blackmail
You have multiple forms of proof that would cause a major organization to act against an individual.
Granger Trout had sent letters paying for the assassination of several individuals in the government.
Major Payoff: 40% Assets



1 -For the most part, at no point will any NPC pay more money as a bribe than they could to hire mercenaries or other adventurers to find blackmail on their assailant. So even if the party has absolute proof that the King has been sending assassins after the neighboring country, he won't pay 40% of his actual assets, instead either hiring individuals to deal with the party or offering that price as a bribe to the party.

Mercanary Cost/Bribe price cap= 250 gp x Party level x Number of party members

There's also the chance that an NPC doesn't care about the threat of information and instead admits to the truth on their own to reduce the impact of the news or they allow the PC to go ahead and release the info. Usually this happens if the NPC feels like a PC can't be trusted to keep their mouth shut despite a bribe or if the information is not a big deal. For this, I would combine a character's charisma score with their HD and subtract the tier of the information (Minor fact being a 2, Major Blackmail being a 5). If the number goes below a 2, the Victim is more likely to succumb to the blackmail, if it's above a 2, they are likely to find another way to deal with the problem, perhaps even admitting it.
Example: "Hercule threatens to release information on the King's slow assassination of political opponents. The King instead releases a "news story" that he has been sending covert ops to stop deadly 'terrorist threats' from hurting the nations. Those threats 'were disguised as politicians.'"

TheYell
2016-08-07, 06:29 PM
Seems workable. Are there odds for a publish-and-be-damned reaction?

Aergoth
2016-08-07, 08:17 PM
I like that you've considered the value of a payoff compared to hiring someone to make the problem go away.
Does this allow for the potential to create a sensational rumor?

Madara
2016-08-07, 08:28 PM
Seems workable. Are there odds for a publish-and-be-damned reaction?

That's actually a really good idea for hashing out, I'll see what I can do.


I like that you've considered the value of a payoff compared to hiring someone to make the problem go away.
Does this allow for the potential to create a sensational rumor?

That's basically the idea. At they very least, it provides guidelines for how impactful or threatening a rumor is. I think creating rumors would best fall under bluff or somesuch other rules. But the value of the rumor threat is measured here.

I'm not sure how well a "Pay me or I'll start this rumor about you" situation could be measured. I think it comes down to how well the NPC views the character as a social threat.

Aergoth
2016-08-07, 09:33 PM
There's a couple of rogue talents that basically allow you to do just that. I was wondering more if the rumor entries on your table were intended to allow players to start rumors, rather than have players threaten to start them.

Madara
2016-08-07, 11:52 PM
There's a couple of rogue talents that basically allow you to do just that. I was wondering more if the rumor entries on your table were intended to allow players to start rumors, rather than have players threaten to start them.

I figure they will start some, yeah. It's more of starting a bit of the rumor and threatening to spread it.

Aergoth
2016-08-07, 11:55 PM
Could elements of this system be put to work against itself?
Like, Party A starts a rumor, Party B either uses facts or starts another rumor aiming to discredit the first rumor?
And I'm wondering if the rumor system could have consequences other than the financial, to make it an obstacle to players. There is more than one kind of currency that players try to spend, and it seems unfair that the system only work in their favor.
Let's say someone starts a rumor that lowers the opinion of the populace about a character or party, that make would social checks more difficult, no?

Madara
2016-08-08, 12:24 PM
Could elements of this system be put to work against itself?
Like, Party A starts a rumor, Party B either uses facts or starts another rumor aiming to discredit the first rumor?
And I'm wondering if the rumor system could have consequences other than the financial, to make it an obstacle to players. There is more than one kind of currency that players try to spend, and it seems unfair that the system only work in their favor.
Let's say someone starts a rumor that lowers the opinion of the populace about a character or party, that make would social checks more difficult, no?

If my players end up with characters that have an actual reputation, I'll probably be dealing with that. But it can be mostly reduced to a modifier on charisma-based skill checks.

TheYell
2016-08-08, 03:09 PM
I like your addition of a pushback reaction.