Magic Item Cost Questions

[Chilxius]

I've been creating some fun new magic items for my campaign. The rules for pricing magic items are usually pretty cut-and-dry. For command-word items, it's Spell level * Caster level * 1800, then adjusted for uses per day.
The problem I've found is spells that don't scale with CL. The one I found was Earth Reaver, which deals 4d6 from rocks and then 3d6 from fire in a 20' radius spread (no save), and might knock prone. The only variable affected by CL is range (and counterspelling I suppose). If you were to make an item that cast this at CL 1 5/day, then it would cost (5*1*1800 =) 9000g, which is the same as an item that produces a 5d6 Shocking Grasp 5/day. By the same method you could make an item that cast Meteor Swarm 5/day for (9*1*1800 =) 16200.
Other magic items can be created at less than the usual required CL to cast the spell (for example, the 3d6 fireballs in a necklace of fireballs). I know that as a DM I should not include/allow game-breaking items, but is there a rule somewhere I missed that covers this?

Also, the items I've been making are mostly warforged components, of which there are not enough. I've been making stuff like flamethrowers (burning hands), jetpacks (fly), emergency wheels (swift ex. retreat), and shield generators (false life). I'd appreciate input on ideas for this.

[KillianHawkeye]

You typically can't create an item which duplicates a particular spell at a caster level lower than the minimum that would be normally required for a character to cast that spell. At least, that's explicitly true for items such as scrolls/potions/wands/staves. I would consider the 3d6 necklace of fireballs example to be an exception, and not one that should necessarily be applicable to other spells.

As always, it's important to note that the guidelines for custom magic item creation and pricing are not rules, they are guidelines. They are subject to DM arbitration, and require a certain amount of comparison to existing magic items. So, for example, if you have a spell that doesn't get weaker or stronger with a lower or higher caster level, you should probably just avoid allowing the caster level of such an item to be changeable in the first place. Set the CL to be whatever it would ordinarily be and leave at that. There's no reason why you need to allow it to fluctuate.

[Diarmuid]

You're not allowed to set the CL for an item below the minimum necessary to cast the spell in general as mentioned.

[Shalist]

I know that as a DM I should not include/allow game-breaking items, but is there a rule somewhere I missed that covers this?




Magic Item Descriptions

Caster Level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel)

The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation. This information is given in the form "CL x," where "CL" is an abbreviation for caster level and "x" is an ordinal number representing the caster level itself.

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

Prerequisites

Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level.


To clarify, the CL given in an item's description is -not- a prerequisite, i.e. 'sovereign glue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#sovereignGlue)' being CL 20 just means it's incredibly difficult to dispel, not that you need to be a high priest / archwizard to make some. Now, moving on to actual CL prereqs:


Creating Magic Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm)

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While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.

Creating Magic Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingMagicArmor)

Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

Creating Magic Weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingMagicWeapons)

Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

Creating staffs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingStaffs)

If desired, a spell can be placed into the staff at only half the normal cost, but then activating that particular spell costs 2 charges from the staff. The caster level of all spells in a staff must be the same, and no staff can have a caster level of less than 8th, even if all the spells in the staff are low-level spells.

Intelligent Item Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#intelligentItemCreation)

To create an intelligent item, a character must have a caster level of 15th or higher.

Also very much worth a mention, the "Consolidated List of "Bargain Bin" Spells for Artificers (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661)," which lists all the spells that can be found at a lower level via this or that domain / class spell list / etc., i.e. haste as a level 1 spell via 'Trapsmith' (Dungeonscape).

[Zakier]

I believe it's worth noting that for the fireball necklace the artificer cl rule might have been applied.



For purposes of meeting item prerequisites, an artificer's effective caster level equals his artificer level +2. If the item duplicates a spell effect, however, it uses the artificer's actual level as its caster level.

Costs are always determined using the item's minimum caster level or the artificer's actual level (if it is higher).

Thus, a 3rd-level artificer can make ascroll of fireball, since the minimum caster level forfireball*is 5th. He pays the normal cost for making such a scroll with a caster level of 5th: 5 X 3 X 12.5 = 187 gp and 5 sp, plus 15 XP. But the scroll's actual caster level is only 3rd, and it produces a weak*fireballthat deals only 3d6 points of damage.

[Khedrac]

I believe it's worth noting that for the fireball necklace the artificer cl rule might have been applied.

Not a chance. The fireball necklace goes back to 1st Ed AD&D (if not before).
The magic item creation rules essentially come from 3.0 D&D - but the necklace of fireballs was transferred in from AD&D so is a special case.
Artificers come from Eberron, an addition to 3.5 D&D that came out well after the core books.

So no, artificers have nothing to do with the existence of the 3d6 fireball necklace bead.

[tropical_punch]

I know what "minimum caster level required to cast the spell" is supposed to mean, but is it ever actually defined anywhere? Is there any rule that says a 5th level spell has a minimum caster level of 9th, and a 9th level spell has a minimum caster level of 17th, etc.?

[Zakier]

It depends on the class actually. It would take me a bit to cind but in the item creation rules it does say in cases where one class can cast a spell sooner than others, use the lowest possible level for determining the items price.

So if a Eric can cast a spell at level 5 buy your wizard can't cast it until 7, use the clerics level for determining the spell level.

Fireball is at lowest a level 3 spell. The soonest it could be cast is level 5. Even items that increase your caster level do not give you access to spells you can't access normally.

[Âmesang]

While item creation costs are handled in detail elsewhere, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. For example, a 15th-level wizard could craft a wand of fireball at 10th caster level, or even as low as 5th level (the minimum caster level for fireball, a 3rd-level spell), but no lower.

So at what point did "the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item's caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator's level)" stop applying? Magic Item Compendium?

[Zakier]

It still applies as shown above on the post with the specific item creation excerpts.

[KillianHawkeye]

So at what point did "the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item's caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator's level)" stop applying? Magic Item Compendium?

It was actually removed by the 3.5 DMG's official errata document. It was replaced with the statement "The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given."

[Calthropstu]

Also, the max is 200,000 without being epic in 3.5. (but not in pf) I am catching a lot of flak for giving an npc a dagger of dispelling cl 20th which casts dispel magic every time it strikes in another thread.

[Troacctid]

I know what "minimum caster level required to cast the spell" is supposed to mean, but is it ever actually defined anywhere? Is there any rule that says a 5th level spell has a minimum caster level of 9th, and a 9th level spell has a minimum caster level of 17th, etc.?
The rules for crafting scrolls have the minimum CL for each spell level for all the core classes. You should be able to figure out the non-core classes from there.

[Âmesang]

It was actually removed by the 3.5 DMG's official errata document. It was replaced with the statement "The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given."
Neat, I'll have to keep that in mind. :smallsmile: Although now I'm reminded of that epic cabinet of feasting that has a caster level of 40 because it's intended to feed forty people.

…how many Karsus-level bards/clerics are there that are willing to make those? :smallconfused: