Can a woman have these stats and still be attractive?

[Zhentarim]

Mechanically, there is no problem. My question is fluff-wise. I also DO have a mechanical question as to whether I should play a gnoll or a half-orc when it comes to being a tank. My character starts off married to another player in the game and he is a debuffer/necromancer.


Lvl 5 LE Antipaladin Half-Orc (Insinuator)
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 12
CHA 16

Or...

Lvl 5 Gnoll Antipaladin (Insinuator)
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 16

[Zanos]

Charisma is soft-tied to attractiveness, but isn't it's only component. A character can look however you like, although there's a correlation with attractiveness and charisma.

If you're asking if a gnoll or half-orc can be attractive to someone outside that race...depends on what you're in to.

[Troacctid]

Personally, I can't picture being attracted to a gnoll no matter how high his Charisma score is. Not only are they funky-looking, but gnoll culture is also just repulsive. You know that gnolls prefer to eat intelligent creatures because they scream more? They're, like, the worst. I wouldn't even let a gnoll buy me a drink, and I certainly wouldn't date one.

Half-orcs aren't likely to be conventionally attractive by human standards, but in a lot of ways they're just bigger, scarier versions of humans. It's kind of sad that society teaches them to solve their problems with violence because their strength is their only asset; I mean, that's totally unfair. I could definitely imagine being attracted to a half-orc if he were charismatic enough. A brave, kind loner trying to buck the stereotypes associated with his race might even be kind of sexy. (I don't date antipaladins, though.)

[Extra Anchovies]

Ability scores are nebulous enough that they don't really have much bearing on appearance. Attraction isn't solely (and is sometimes not at all) tied to appearance. And how your character looks is totally up to you. If you want your character to be conventionally attractive by the standards of one or more of the cultures in the setting, then make it so.

[Snowbluff]

Charisma is soft-tied to attractiveness, but isn't it's only component. A character can look however you like, although there's a correlation with attractiveness and charisma.

If you're asking if a gnoll or half-orc can be attractive to someone outside that race...depends on what you're in to.

Yeah, I agree. It can be bad ass -ness, Macho RANDY SAVAGE-ness, coolness, etc. :smallsmile:

[icefractal]

If attractiveness was tied to any stats, it would be Con and/or Cha. So since those are both high ... yes, obviously so. Not that most humans would be physically attracted to a Gnoll, but one could still look better than another - "Look at that majestic wolf!" vs "Wow, that is one sorry looking mutt." for example.

[Zhentarim]

Now the mechanical question of who makes a better tank.

My thought is if I went gnoll, it could have been a conversion from human while working with Lamashtu.

[Honest Tiefling]

I dunno if I agree. I mean, Intelligence 7? Yeah, that might get annoying after a while. Dear, stop using the expensive spellbooks as a napkin, please honey.

As for the other question...Uh, Pathfinder or 3.5? In 3.5, you might be better off with the Gnoll, and it becomes way better with LA buy off.

If Pathfinder, just go Half-Orc. And it doesn't take all that long to google an attractive looking half-orc woman, provided one is into the amazon look. (If your IC hubby is NOT into the amazon look, I am sorely confused as to the basis of your relationship.)

Urgathoa is a little hard to justify in a good aligned group, but you're an anti-paladin and he's a necromancer so...Yeah. I recommend her because she is a goddess of undeath and physical excess, making her loads of fun at parties.

[Troacctid]

"Oh, I'm not really a gnoll, I'm actually a human transformed into a gnoll by a demon lord!" Pssh, yeah, like I'm falling for that line, creep. Still not letting you take me home with you.

If there's a pre-existing relationship between the two characters, that's a different matter—but in that case, it shouldn't be important if the gnoll is physically attractive or not.

[Honest Tiefling]

If there's a pre-existing relationship between the two characters, that's a different matter—but in that case, it shouldn't be important if the gnoll is physically attractive or not.

I personally would find it hilarious if the necromancer wasn't shallow at all and saw her as a devoted, strong, faithful woman and fell in love with her not for her looks, but her personality.

[bahamut920]

I'm going to agree with Troacctid and say that it's more about species and culture than ability scores in this case. After all, both have the same Cha. A half-orc is much more appealing to... well, almost anything that's not a gnoll, barring extremely evil individuals with fursuit tendencies.

Granted, that one time you're in a gnoll stronghold (presumably rescuing a witch for a barbarian with a head injury), you'll be a really hot piece of tail... :P

[DeadMech]

Preferences varies to some degree from person to person. A family with a tradition of wizarding probably values intelligence above the other stats. Warriors from a barbarian tribe probably want strong partners. Nobles might care more about social standing than genetic stats. I'd probably just try to make sure the two characters are races than can produce offspring but even that's not necessarily needed. Some couples form based off of companionship and support rather than the desire to reproduce.

[Troacctid]

I personally would find it hilarious if the necromancer wasn't shallow at all and saw her as a devoted, strong, faithful woman and fell in love with her not for her looks, but her personality.
Then the gnoll leads him on just long enough for him to let his guard down so she can kill and eat him...but she finds herself inexplicably returning his affections, so instead she chains him up and keeps him as a personal slave, destroying his spellbook so he can't fight back. A true Hollywood romance!

[Honest Tiefling]

"Look, honey, I didn't reanimate all of the corpses!" *Gestures to a mangled body surrounded by candles* "I left one for you to devour."

[noce]

STR 16
DEX 14
CON 16
CHA 16


For a half orc, we can talk about it, but a gnoll is just as ugly as any other gnoll.
I ignore INT and WIS when considering physical appearence.

To me, STR represents how muscular a character is.
DEX represents how fit, agile and slender a character is.
CON has the least impact on how I figure a character appearence, personally I tie it to bulkiness and, if a lot higher than DEX, fatness.
CHA represents facial appearence and if the body is graceful, shapely, etc.

Based on stats you have, I imagine a female half orc with strong muscled arms, hot curves, sculpted abs, wide hips, nice butt and an exotic pretty face.
To sum up, a body slightly similar to that of a 100m female runner, with a bit more curves. I'd definitely like it.

[Cisturn]

Sure, why not?

Stats affect appearance, but it's up to you to determine how. Fluff wise you could spin any of the physical stats to fit your character being attractive. Both characters have high strength and high con. You could fluff this so they look brawny/bulky or they could have super chiseled lean muscle. Orcs and Gnolls may find the super muscular look more attractive, whereas an elf may prefer a more compact look.

You could also argue that an Orc or a Gnoll simply wouldn't look attractive to member of a different species. But I think this wouldn't be the case for two reasons. In a DnD world, especially one with lots of different fantasy races interacting with one another, there could be a much broader and less standardized sense of beauty than in our own world. So a member of another race may not be so alien. SO simply being a gnoll or an orc isn't a deal breaker for being attractive.

Most importantly both of the characters you describe have charisma scores of 16 which is significantly higher than the average person. To me, a high charisma score could indicate that there's something about these two that makes them particularly appealing. Maybe its a some sort of magnetic quality, or they're particularly charming or witty. Whatever that special something is though, these two have it. Now according to RAW charisma also governs physical appearance (though lots of people don't go by that) a score of 16 is really high score for any player character race. So by that logic these two are definitely good looking.

The only other issue I see stat wise is the half-orcs 7 in intelligence. This wouldn't affect her physical appearance, but depending on the circumstance it could affect her attractiveness.

In conclusion, given their high charisma and the many ways fluff their appearance you could easily claim that both of these characters are attractive.

Unrelated to all that but for the half-orc anti-paladin, I have this mental image of this badass orc warrior complete with a giant sword and black armor, but with the voice and personality of a snobby high school cheerleader. I definitely think this concept would be incredible for a game.

[Âmesang]

Admittedly my first thoughts upon seeing those scores was a robust farm girl type who could easily carry a hog under her arm; not much for book learnin' but has plenty of down-home wisdom to get her through life.

…granted, these two examples are evil so that might not be an exacting match anymore, but I'm still going to enjoy the thought of said farm girl using a bra as a double-barreled sling. :smalltongue:

[Metahuman1]

noce: Cuase human females having at least some fat as never been attractive? XD! (That's said in jest, don't take it too seriously.)


Cistern: Yes. That would be a glorious villainess.


Âmesang: That's an awesome image. =)





OP: I tend to think that as long as your into that sort of thing, sure. The internet has taught us that all kinds of people have all kinds of weird things they find sexy or attractive.


I could see these characters being considerably highly attractive to the right person. A person who doesn't mind the Fur or even likes it could go for the Gnoll, And someone else might well go for the half Orc.

Str represents muscles, I'm seeing them both looking like some flavor of serious weight lifter. Maybe it raw, hard, dense bulk that doesn't move but doesn't nessissarily look exactly like muscle at first glance like a power lifter would have. Maybe it's the Female Body Builder look. Maybe it's more slimmed down but still solid and chisled like a higher weight class female MMA fighter or high end personal fitness trainer. But it's there.

Dex is of course agility. This is not being so bulked up that you look like a bad hulk joke. This is being able to move with grace and precision and agility and flexibility, which just adds oh so much to those movements.

Con is being hale and hearty. And relating to women's attractiveness, I tend to think this is the bust size, the curves, and the height stat. This is how you figure out if she's a 6ft + D cup + well trunked and hipped woman or not.

And the thread has gone on at length about Cha already.

[Stewzors]

Describe it however you like - both the characters have above average scores across the board apart from intelligence and even then, its not a terrible score.

So as long as the race isn't an instant nope or you're only into smarts I'd say they were both fair game.

[JNAProductions]

Atropals have 46 Charisma. (Or something like that.)

They're also dead god fetuses, and look about how you'd expect.

So Charisma=/=attractiveness. If anything, the physical stats probably are a better measure of attractiveness, but even then, you can be weak, clutzy, and sickly but still attractive. (Just probably not while actively being sick.)

[Pleh]

I see two really neat Roleplaying possibilities with your Gnoll Wife idea. The husband is a necromancer, yes?

Either 1: the character, as stated before, wasn't always a Gnoll and the necromancer married someone more appropriate to his species. Then by whatever evil means, his wife became a Gnoll, but his affection for her prevents him from leaving.

Or 2: Evil characters don't always view ethics the same as good characters. Marriage between two Evil characters (in the D&D sense of Evil) might have a completely different meaning than what it does in our culture. Perhaps the necromancer won his wife through some brutal ceremony after besting a Gnoll champion, which Gnoll tribe tradition dictated that he must then take on all of the Gnoll Champion's previous possessions and obligations.

But as to the original question of if the character can be attractive, there is no reason that they couldn't be attractive. Most characters you meet in the game probably wouldn't swing that way, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be attractive to your own kind. And who knows, maybe you're very UNattractive to your own kind and the ugliness that makes you less gnoll-like actually makes you seem more human? The possibilities are endless.

[Caedes]

I typically do no tie Charisma to how a character looks.But instead to how likeable or persuasive they are.

A person in real life can be supper attractive looking but have next to no charisma. E.G Paris Hilton or Tom Cruise.

Inversely the same can be true of not attractive people that are very charismatic. E.G Steve Buscemi or Ellen Barkin.

[OldTrees1]

Attraction has many facets: Physical, mental, & social to name a few.
A healthy body with a nice mind and charisma(the stat "Cha" includes the trait "charisma") can be quite attractive. Or they could have revolting beliefs.

Frankly the only things that stand out as unattractive in the OP are:
Int 7 (can you think of them as a partner?, depends on the characters involved)
Antipaladin (revolting moral beliefs?, depends on the characters involved)
Different Race (different cultural beliefs might cause divides, depends on the characters involved)


So can they be attractive? Yes
Does your character find them attractive? Ask your character about those ^ 3 things.

[Âmesang]

Of course if it were the husband with an Intelligence of 7 it would be every sitcom ever. :smalltongue:

[digiman619]

Of course if it were the husband with an Intelligence of 7 it would be every sitcom ever. :smalltongue:

Except The Addams Family. They were, and probably still are (or at least in the top 10), the most well-adjusted family on television. The parents spent roughly the same tome parenting, they worked together and not against each other, and you felt that they honestly cared about each others, unlike some more recent shows that think that having your characters treat everyone around them like garbage is funny. (I'm looking at you, Family Guy, Malcolm in the Middle!, and countless others.)

[Tanuki Tales]

Except The Addams Family. They were, and probably still are (or at least in the top 10), the most well-adjusted family on television. The parents spent roughly the same tome parenting, they worked together and not against each other, and you felt that they honestly cared about each others, unlike some more recent shows that think that having your characters treat everyone around them like garbage is funny. (I'm looking at you, Family Guy, Malcolm in the Middle!, and countless others.)

Perfect example of the Evil alignment being affable. :smallsmile:

[Âmesang]

Fair enough, and in a way I imagine the same could be said of The Munsters and… okay, most pre-2000 sitcoms (heck, Homer Simpson wasn't that dumb in the beginning). :smallsmile: My apologies.

[digiman619]

Perfect example of the Evil alignment being affable. :smallsmile:

I'd argue the Addams are far more CN that Evil, but that'd be quibbling.


Fair enough, and in a way I imagine the same could be said of The Munsters and… okay, most pre-2000 sitcoms (heck, Homer Simpson wasn't that dumb in the beginning). :smallsmile: My apologies.

I personally feel The Munsters were a cheap knockoff that made no sense; I could maybe buy that the daughter of a reanimated corpse and a vampire could create a (as far as we know) normal human, but how do they have a werewolf?

[Tanuki Tales]

I'd argue the Addams are far more CN that Evil, but that'd be quibbling.

Guess it depends on which iteration we're discussing.

The movie ones were definitely evil, with a little e. Blue and Orange Morality for sure, but definitely evil.

[digiman619]

Guess it depends on which iteration we're discussing.

The movie ones were definitely evil, with a little e. Blue and Orange Morality for sure, but definitely evil.

Well, since I mentioned them as "the most well-adjusted family on TV", I was referring to the original TV show. I will concede that the movie ones fall more into the evil alignment, though.

But more on topic, as the saying goes: "Beauty in in the eye of the CR 13 Abomination with eye rays." If were talking about a "would you rather..." scenario, half-orc over gnoll any day, but I'm sure I could find a "sexy gnoll" picture online in a few minutes if I tried, so I could see both.

[JNAProductions]

Well, since I mentioned them as "the most well-adjusted family on TV", I was referring to the original TV show. I will concede that the movie ones fall more into the evil alignment, though.

But more on topic, as the saying goes: "Beauty in in the eye of the CR 13 Abomination with eye rays." If were talking about a "would you rather..." scenario, half-orc over gnoll any day, but I'm sure I could find a "sexy gnoll" picture online in a few minutes if I tried, so I could see both.

I will not google image search it. I will not google image search it. I will not google image search it.

...

Okay, good news! There are sexy gnolls.

Bad news is I can't post the pictures here.

[Ruslan]

Lvl 5 LE Antipaladin Half-Orc (Insinuator)
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 12
CHA 16
A strong, healthy and limber woman? And she's actually half-human, not any of that Elf &*%#? I'm totally down.

[Âmesang]

I personally feel The Munsters were a cheap knockoff that made no sense; I could maybe buy that the daughter of a reanimated corpse and a vampire could create a (as far as we know) normal human, but how do they have a werewolf?
Rabies. :smalltongue: Or maybe he has Hypertrichosis; did Eddie ever change shape in the series?

Now I'm starting to wonder if anyone somehow made The Munsters out to be some bizarre, post-apocalyptic sequel to Car 54, Where Are You?

[digiman619]

Rabies. :smalltongue: Or maybe he has Hypertrichosis; did Eddie ever change shape in the series?

Now I'm starting to wonder if anyone somehow made The Munsters out to be some bizarre, post-apocalyptic sequel to Car 54, Where Are You?

A) Do you really think that a mid 60's TV show had the effects budget for that? and B) I beleive that he was referred to as a werewolf multiple times.

[Liquor Box]

No, because gnolls and half orcs are not attractive

[digiman619]

I will not google image search it. I will not google image search it. I will not google image search it.

...

Okay, good news! There are sexy gnolls.

Bad news is I can't post the pictures here.

Yes, there's a high percentage of explicit images, but I found one that's safe enough.
http://orig00.deviantart.net/9d11/f/2009/187/7/c/female_gnoll_by_neon_bandicoot.jpg

[Zhentarim]

Yes, there's a high percentage of explicit images, but I found one that's safe enough.
http://orig00.deviantart.net/9d11/f/2009/187/7/c/female_gnoll_by_neon_bandicoot.jpg

I find that mildly attractive, though cartoons are more appealing to me than live action for some reason.

[Randomthom]

Remember that girl you met, the one who was really hot until she opened her mouth... yep. That's a low CHA score. She's unlikely to be able to get what she wants from people by her force of personality.

Remember that plain-looking girl you stayed up all night talking to about anything and everything? Who talked you into skinny-dipping even though you're not really one for the crazyier things life can throw at you? That's a high CHA score. Again, not tied to looks.

(Examples may or may not be real-life events of this poster!)

[Tvtyrant]

I think the Gnoll would be attractive in the same way a striking horse, dog or car is. A Gnoll with a good fur pattern, long unbroken teeth, solid muscles and sharp attentive eyes would draw attention without being, say, arousing.

Humans can be the same way I think. I wouldn't want to date a muscle builder, but I would certainly look at them more then anyone else in a room.

[OldTrees1]

Remember that girl you met, the one who was really hot until she opened her mouth... yep. That's a low CHA score. She's unlikely to be able to get what she wants from people by her force of personality.

Remember that plain-looking girl you stayed up all night talking to about anything and everything? Who talked you into skinny-dipping even though you're not really one for the crazyier things life can throw at you? That's a high CHA score. Again, not tied to looks.

(Examples may or may not be real-life events of this poster!)

Good examples.

That first one could also be low Int, low Wis, or even something unrelated to a stat depending on what particularly was unattractive when she opened their mouth. However it is also a great example of low Cha (depending on what was unattractive).

[Don nadie]

Hello, people... I'm married to a gnoll!

Now, let me pitch in how I see the whole issue. Sorry if I don't quote each of you, many have made very intelligent points.

First: total agreement: CHA does not mean straightforward attractiveness. A high CHA + high physical states, however, does. At least in my book.

Second: certainly people in a fantasy world have more capacity to see other species attractive. Specially if, as in the case of our story, the gnolls and the humans of that region live together and spend lots of time seeing each other. I think to be able to see people with widely different "bodies" to yours attractive you just need to have seen a lot of them.

I dunno if anyone of you has experienced something similar after moving to a region with people from a widely different ethnic group but to me at least it takes becoming used to a set of features and then I can more easily recognize what specifics within that set are attractive. When I moved to England it took me a while to discern attractive Englishmen from the "milky white round flat face" that they usually seemed to me. Obviously this is a tad more extreme (no human ethnic group is comparable to gnolls. Well, maybe Andalusians*) but I think it is a safe bet that a human from a region such as this would be attracted to a gnoll.

Third: I also think attraction and love are messy things at best and very tied to the character's personal stories. My witch-gravewalker was sold into marriage with this gnoll anti-paladin's father. None of them were supposed to do much but obey, and yet together they intrigued and fought to win power and independence for themselves. I think that makes quite a bonding experience.

Also, I'm totally rping this in a Adams family style XD




*Joking. I'm Andalusian. Also, not joking: we're quite hairy and our traditional music (flamenco) has a lot of heart-felt screaming and stomping the ground.