DiceDiceBaby
2016-08-10, 12:02 AM
Hello, Giants!
Quick set of rules questions (or not so quick) to clarify the Bard's Magical Secrets and Additional Magical Secrets.
To summarize, just how many more spells does a Lore Bard have as compared to a Valor Bard?
At 6th level, the Lore Bard has access to Additional Magical Secrets (strange name, if you ask me, since the actual Magical Secrets happen at level 10). Apparently this allows the Lore Bard to have two additional spells known that do not count towards the total number of spells a bard has memorized, and can be 3rd level or lower (or even a cantrip).
At 10th level, both the Lore and Valor Bards get access to Magical Secrets, which allows them to add two spells from any class, 5th level or lower (or even a cantrip) into their spells to select, but apparently these do count towards the spells known.
As I read this, that means that at level 10, the Lore Bard will actually have 16 spells known (4 of which can be from other classes) and the Valor Bard will have 14 spells known (2 of which can be from other classes). Is that right?
Next, suppose we use the Magical Secrets and/or Additional Magical secrets to pick cantrips instead of spells (totally inefficient, I know, but humor me). It is implied that the two spells known (leaping from 12 to 14 spells known on the level 9 to level 10 jump in the Bard class) are supposed to be your picks for Magical Secrets. But suppose that you pick cantrips instead.
The way I see it, the cantrips would count as "spells known", but there's nothing in the wording to clarify this. If we were to interpret it differently, I can see the argument that it would be possible to have 14 spells (all from the Bard spell list) and 6 cantrips (or 8 if you're a Lore Bard) at level 10.
So it's all a bit confusing.
Just how many spells and/or cantrips can the Lore and Valor Bards have, really?
Or am I misreading the options?
A) Both the Lore and Valor Bards end up with 14 spells known each by 10th level, but the Lore Bard expands the list by 4 spells from other classes, while the Valor Bard ends up with only 2 additional spells.
B) The Lore Bard benefits from having 2 more spells known than the Lore Bard (16 to 14, respectively) because the Additional Magical Secrets are precisely that... additional.
C) The Lore Bard and Valor Bard can both have 4 and 2 additional cantrips respectively, but only have 12 and 10 spells known, respectively.
D) The Lore Bard and Valor Bard can both have 4 and 2 additional cantrips respectively, but with 12 spells known each (exclusively from the Bard class).
E) The Lore Bard can have 4 additional cantrips and still equal the Valor Bard with 2 additional cantrips with 14 spells known each (exclusively from the Bard class).
F) Some other confusing permutation I haven't thought of yet.
I'm guessing it's option F, but I'm too tired to think of other permutations.
Any help would be great, thanks!
Quick set of rules questions (or not so quick) to clarify the Bard's Magical Secrets and Additional Magical Secrets.
To summarize, just how many more spells does a Lore Bard have as compared to a Valor Bard?
At 6th level, the Lore Bard has access to Additional Magical Secrets (strange name, if you ask me, since the actual Magical Secrets happen at level 10). Apparently this allows the Lore Bard to have two additional spells known that do not count towards the total number of spells a bard has memorized, and can be 3rd level or lower (or even a cantrip).
At 10th level, both the Lore and Valor Bards get access to Magical Secrets, which allows them to add two spells from any class, 5th level or lower (or even a cantrip) into their spells to select, but apparently these do count towards the spells known.
As I read this, that means that at level 10, the Lore Bard will actually have 16 spells known (4 of which can be from other classes) and the Valor Bard will have 14 spells known (2 of which can be from other classes). Is that right?
Next, suppose we use the Magical Secrets and/or Additional Magical secrets to pick cantrips instead of spells (totally inefficient, I know, but humor me). It is implied that the two spells known (leaping from 12 to 14 spells known on the level 9 to level 10 jump in the Bard class) are supposed to be your picks for Magical Secrets. But suppose that you pick cantrips instead.
The way I see it, the cantrips would count as "spells known", but there's nothing in the wording to clarify this. If we were to interpret it differently, I can see the argument that it would be possible to have 14 spells (all from the Bard spell list) and 6 cantrips (or 8 if you're a Lore Bard) at level 10.
So it's all a bit confusing.
Just how many spells and/or cantrips can the Lore and Valor Bards have, really?
Or am I misreading the options?
A) Both the Lore and Valor Bards end up with 14 spells known each by 10th level, but the Lore Bard expands the list by 4 spells from other classes, while the Valor Bard ends up with only 2 additional spells.
B) The Lore Bard benefits from having 2 more spells known than the Lore Bard (16 to 14, respectively) because the Additional Magical Secrets are precisely that... additional.
C) The Lore Bard and Valor Bard can both have 4 and 2 additional cantrips respectively, but only have 12 and 10 spells known, respectively.
D) The Lore Bard and Valor Bard can both have 4 and 2 additional cantrips respectively, but with 12 spells known each (exclusively from the Bard class).
E) The Lore Bard can have 4 additional cantrips and still equal the Valor Bard with 2 additional cantrips with 14 spells known each (exclusively from the Bard class).
F) Some other confusing permutation I haven't thought of yet.
I'm guessing it's option F, but I'm too tired to think of other permutations.
Any help would be great, thanks!