Quick "Spirit of the Rules" question about Scouts and Movement

[Albions_Angel]

Hi all

Super quick:

As you all know, scouts get extra damage from movement. Does a mounted scout count as moving? Does a mounted charge count as moving?

Thanks

[Necroticplague]

No. You're not moving when mounted, your mount is. Plus, errata was specifically added the make this not possible.

[Albions_Angel]

Damn. Well there goes my network of scouts. Ill have to think of something else.

[Fouredged Sword]

I think there is a rules lawyer work around. Creatures continue along any jump even if they dismount. Your mount uses it's move action to jump forward 10ft. You immediately do a free action dismount and free action remount as soon as you land. You moved 10ft without being mounted.

I'm pretty sure this doesn't actually work. :smallmad:

[Flickerdart]

I think there is a rules lawyer work around. Creatures continue along any jump even if they dismount. Your mount uses it's move action to jump forward 10ft. You immediately do a free action dismount and free action remount as soon as you land. You moved 10ft without being mounted.

I'm pretty sure this doesn't actually work. :smallmad:

None of that works. However, you could order your mount to jump 10 feet up, free-action dismount at the apex, and fall down 10 feet. Boom, movement.

[Inevitability]

None of that works. However, you could order your mount to jump 10 feet up, free-action dismount at the apex, and fall down 10 feet. Boom, movement.

Even a heavy warhorse is going to have only +4 to jump, though. Getting it to jump 10 feet up (DC 40) will be near-impossible without magic item usage.

Instead, how about just buying a flying mount? It seems far easier to me and is more useful in general.

[Gildedragon]

Even a heavy warhorse is going to have only +4 to jump, though. Getting it to jump 10 feet up (DC 40) will be near-impossible without magic item usage.

Instead, how about just buying a flying mount? It seems far easier to me and is more useful in general.

Horseshoes of Tiger's Claw magic item: leaping dragon stance for +10 feet to their jump

[Malimar]

Related to the above suggestions: I had a bow-using petal scout in one of my campaigns who used to fly 10' up and then use a free action to fall 10' on his next turn, gaining a full attack with skirmish every other round. I've never been entirely clear on whether this actually works, but I allowed it and the last time I mentioned it on the Playground they said it does.

[KillianHawkeye]

Even a heavy warhorse is going to have only +4 to jump, though. Getting it to jump 10 feet up (DC 40) will be near-impossible without magic item usage.

A heavy warhorse actually has a +12 to Jump naturally (+4 from Strength, +8 special bonus because of their speed).

[Flickerdart]

Even a heavy warhorse is going to have only +4 to jump, though. Getting it to jump 10 feet up (DC 40) will be near-impossible without magic item usage.

Instead, how about just buying a flying mount? It seems far easier to me and is more useful in general.
A deinonychus has +26 to Jump. A 50gp masterwork item (jumpy shoes?) adds +2. Get it to retrain one of its feats for Skill Focus (Jump) and you're making that DC40 check on a 9. Speed boosts, Strength boosts, spells, and feats can improve this further, all without magic items.

Getting a flying mount is never a bad idea, but it needs to have Good maneuverability to spring straight up into the air, and a minimum of 30ft flight speed (10ft straight up doubled to 20, 5ft cost for about-face, 10ft straight down halved to 5). Not the toughest requirements, but they exclude go-to low level guys like hippogriffs and griffons. If you want them, you'll need to do weird bunny-hops over your enemy, which could be tricky in a confined space.

So really, you need to put on clown makeup anyway, you just get to pick your circus.

[MisterKaws]

You could always retrain the mount's feats to Rock Hurling and Fling Ally.

[Telok]

My group has ruled in mounted skirmish for years without any issues. We all agreed that the official ruling was crap and mundanes need nice things too. Never had any problems with it.

[Flickerdart]

Never had any problems with it.
We're the exception! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqcVro-3f4I)

[Extra Anchovies]

How about a trampoline? It'd need to be pretty big to have enough netting to launch you 10 feet upwards, and you'd need a good amount of empty vertical space above and below it, setting one up partway down an Enveloping Pit should do the trick. It'd probably work best with a hover-capable means of flight - jump down the pit, spring yourself back up, hover in place at the apex, make your attacks, then fall back down again at the start of your next turn


A 50gp masterwork item (jumpy shoes?)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaMY8XakxQ8

[Darrin]

Get your Ride check up to at least +19. Direct your mount as a free action to close on your target. Use the fast dismount as a free action to dismount (DC 20). Use fast mount to get back on your mount as a free action, then another fast dismount to the other side. Assuming a large mount, 15' from one side to the other should be enough to trigger skirmish damage. For Improved Skirmish, opposite corners across the diagonal (20') should be enough. Proceed with your full attack. Next round, rinse & repeat.

However, the "no mounted skirmish" ruling is absurd and completely at odds with historical accuracy. Ask Genghis Khan how well mounted skirmishing worked out for him.

[Malimar]

However, the "no mounted skirmish" ruling is absurd and completely at odds with historical accuracy. Ask Genghis Khan how well mounted skirmishing worked out for him.

It's unclear to me what skirmish damage actually represents. Probably not anything that we on Earth would call "skirmishing", so I don't think the Mongols are a relevant example. I've never really understood how moving actually functions to make your attacks more precise (skirmish damage is a kind of precision damage, yes?), it's always been a disassociated mechanic for me.

That said, the game definitely doesn't break if you allow skirmish damage to happen while mounted.

[Flickerdart]

It's unclear to me what skirmish damage actually represents. Probably not anything that we on Earth would call "skirmishing", so I don't think the Mongols are a relevant example. I've never really understood how moving actually functions to make your attacks more precise (skirmish damage is a kind of precision damage, yes?), it's always been a disassociated mechanic for me.

The fluff is " A scout relies on mobility to deal extra damage and improve her defense." which is not particularly helpful. I try to think of it as pseudo-flanking - the enemy can't guard against you effectively because he was looking over there but now you're over here and your sword is in his kidney.

[KillianHawkeye]

The fluff is " A scout relies on mobility to deal extra damage and improve her defense." which is not particularly helpful. I try to think of it as pseudo-flanking - the enemy can't guard against you effectively because he was looking over there but now you're over here and your sword is in his kidney.

Yes, basically. I always thought of it like the Scout has similar training in spotting vital areas as a Rogue, but rather than using stealth or the advantage of outnumbering the opponent the Scout uses speed and momentum to thwart their enemy's ability to react and defend themselves properly. The same logic applies to a ranged attack: the Scout moves quickly and makes an abrupt shot with a bow or toss with a dagger that their target couldn't adequately predict.