Final CL with Mystic Theurge "build"?

[EoNhOeKnOwS]

Ok so I'm very confused about my final CL at the level I'll be... Please bare with me

We all have 16HD - regarding race/template level adj: using lich(+4adj) and spell stitched (house rule of +2 adj) for total of 6 "HD/class levels", here's what I have, 10 regular/prc levels

Cleric 3
Wizard 2 (Necromancer variant)
Mind bender 1
Mystic theurge 4
Lich 4
Spell stitched 2

*EDIT* I just realized I won't be lich with 4 theurge, just disregard


My question: do lich and spell stitch add spell caster levels? If so is it to divine and arcane, pick which one to add to? Same with stitched? If not that's fine.

What is my CL at hd 10 with those classes? *EDIT* not including lich and stitched, I'd still like to know if they add CL tho thanks!

Thank you!

[ExLibrisMortis]

The templates do not add caster levels. Your caster level would be 7 in both wizard and cleric, assuming the Mindbender level adds to your wizard casting. You don't qualify for Mindbender as-is, unless you have Practiced Spellcaster in there somewhere, in which case your wizard CL would be 11, enough to become a lich.

[EoNhOeKnOwS]

Hi thanks for responding!

I have practiced spell caster x2 and charm devotion which adds charm to my spell list. I still need one more caster level to qualify for lich, but since I won't be able to do spell stitched and lich I'll use those 2 adj for ... More theurge I guess, I was hoping to fit warm age for the int bonus (also doing a ray (enervation) master)


EDIT
ALSO, at 10 HD classes, I'd qualify as a 7 wizard/cleric so I get spells of those levels?

[MisterKaws]

No, and you also don't get Hit Dice from those templates, you get Level Adjustment, which is pretty much a -6 to your effective HD: your Effective Character Level is 16, but since you have an LA of +6, your HD SHOULD be 10. Your DM might have houseruled that otherwise, but those are the rules.

I suggest you consult with them and ask for clarification.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Hi thanks for responding!

I have practiced spell caster x2 and charm devotion which adds charm to my spell list. I still need one more caster level to qualify for lich, but since I won't be able to do spell stitched and lich I'll use those 2 adj for ... More theurge I guess, I was hoping to fit warm age for the int bonus (also doing a ray (enervation) master)


EDIT
ALSO, at 10 HD classes, I'd qualify as a 7 wizard/cleric so I get spells of those levels?
Ah, right. Yes, you'd have spells as a wizard 7 and cleric 7, fourth-level spells in both.

You can become a lich at level 10, by using a CL boost, but you still need to get about 100 000 gp somewhere. I'd assumed you'd gotten a +1 boost and handwaved the cost.

I would recommend looking at a build like illumian cleric 2/wizard 1/mystic theurge 2/mindbender 1/mystic theurge +4, which gets you 8th-level casting in cleric and wizard, and requires no Practiced Spellcaster, thanks to (Improved) Krau Sigil.

[Willie the Duck]

We all have 16HD - regarding race/template level adj: using lich(+4adj) and spell stitched (house rule of +2 adj) for total of 6 "HD/class levels", here's what I have, 10 regular/prc levels

Just trying to clarify the basic situation. What you have is an allowed Effective Character Level of 16, not HD, correct? The build you suggested has a HD (0) + class levels (10) total of 10. Lich and spell-stitched give you +6 total Level Adjustment, not HD. Are we in agreement?

[EoNhOeKnOwS]

Sorry about the level adj confusion. We are collectively not clear about the way level adj work. We also wanna e able to play a diff race/template without it being completely worthless. Instead of doing ghestalt we are saying +1 level adj = 1 "HD"
Example for 16th level
Minotaur +2 adj = 2 Minotaur/ 14 fighter
Lich +4 adj = 12 wizard/4 lich
Aasimar +1 adj = 1 Aasimar/15 cleric

it may be op but we are all on par. It just makes it easier for everyone, I feel there will be army battles involving the mob template lol

EDIT*. Thanks exlibris for the help. I think I may end up doing straight cleric with 1 level of (divine) mind bender to get telepathy (maybe jump aroun, like divine oracle 1 gives some neat dip stuff) the loss of CL makes this really sad lol

[MisterKaws]

Sorry about the level adj confusion. We are collectively not clear about the way level adj work. We also wanna e able to play a diff race/template without it being completely worthless. Instead of doing ghestalt we are saying +1 level adj = 1 "HD"
Example for 16th level
Minotaur +2 adj = 2 Minotaur/ 14 fighter
Lich +4 adj = 12 wizard/4 lich
Aasimar +1 adj = 1 Aasimar/15 cleric

it may be op but we are all on par. It just makes it easier for everyone, I feel there will be army battles involving the mob template lol

EDIT*. Thanks exlibris for the help. I think I may end up doing straight cleric with 1 level of (divine) mind bender to get telepathy (maybe jump aroun, like divine oracle 1 gives some neat dip stuff) the loss of CL makes this really sad lol

It's actually not that hard to understand. It's basically just like a normal level, except you don't get any Hit Dice, ability score increases, attack bonuses, class abilities, save bonuses, skills, and everything you should get from a level. It's just Wizards's way to balance out all the stuff you get from template - stopping you from getting stuff from other places.

[ExLibrisMortis]

It's actually not that hard to understand. It's basically just like a normal level, except you don't get any Hit Dice, ability score increases, attack bonuses, class abilities, save bonuses, skills, and everything you should get from a level. It's just Wizards's way to balance out all the stuff you get from template - stopping you from getting stuff from other places.
Basically this, though I have to say (@EoNhOeKnOwS): adding hit dice to underpowered templates like lich is pretty sensible, as long as they're undead HD, not incantatrix HD or something. I mean, if you don't quite like/get the rules, adding equal HD is a pretty sensible way of houseruling.

Also @EoNhOeKnOwS: I think you've figured out why most people prefer to avoid the Mystic Theurge, barring certain powerful classes (Ur-Priest, Sublime Chord et al.). Going straight cleric is certainly a great way to be a lich/necromancer.

[EoNhOeKnOwS]

Thank you so much for the help :D. I've decided to be a Necromancer, Ray master, mind control

This is what I have
•Human Lich 16-
Archivist 8
Cleric 1 - Planning/Deathbound
Mind Bender 1
Fighter 2
Lich 4

•Able to cast 5th level spells. ECL 14 (no buffs)

•Domains•
Planning - Feat - Extended Spell
Deathbound - Special - gain 50% HD to create undead

Feats
Zen archery
Divine metamagic
Twin Spell (4slot)
Split Ray (1slot)
Easy Metamagic - choose feat (-1slot to ... Split Ray)
Enervate Spell - (2slot)
Persistent Spell - (6slot)
Weapon Focus - Ranged Touch
Dead Eye
Point Blank Shot
Practiced Spellcaster

Do you happen to know the best way to sell and or harvest souls? I hear they're great at powering artifacts and all sorts of outsiders will pay good money for them. Also how much would they sell for?

EDIT- also, enervation counts as a Ray and all these feats affect it right? ... Lol that's like my thing, or scorching Ray/Disintegrate for undead or immune to negative energy