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View Full Version : 3rd Ed Warlock and Dragonfire Adept with all invocations known - tier?



Flickerdart
2016-08-10, 03:54 PM
We all know that fighters suck so bad that even fighters who know all the fighter feats at once still suck.

But what about warlocks and their scaly cousins, DFAs? Their primary drawback is a very small number of abilities learned, but some of those abilities are very cool. Does at-will foresight make you T2? What about at-will standard-action geas? Or does having a battery of sweet moves still leave these guys in tier 3 because they can't do time stop and gate?

ComaVision
2016-08-10, 04:04 PM
I think they'd be a very solid T3. While quite flexible with a nice tool-set, they just don't have universe-splitting tools of the higher tiers.

Troacctid
2016-08-10, 04:21 PM
They would be a high T3, except at a couple select power spikes (notably levels 1 and 6) where they'd jump to top-tier until other classes have time to catch up.

They would also be extremely unbalanced, in multiple senses of the word—all their power would be very tightly concentrated at levels 1, 6, 11, and 16, with almost all the other levels being essentially dead, which is atrocious class design. Warlock would also be the most overpowered dip ever, giving access to every least invocation at 1st level.

DFA geas is not a standard action, BTW. It inherits the casting time of the spell.

Zancloufer
2016-08-10, 04:26 PM
Probably have to do something like 2-3 invocations gained each level instead. Ending up with 50-60 invocations by the end means they would essentially get all the good ones without being 100% front loaded. Or maybe limit it to only learning invocations when they are at the right level (IE need to be level 3+ to know innovations with an effective spell level of 2).

Otherwise they would jump straight into OP territory.