Best Unarmed Strike build?

[Tvtyrant]

What is the best build for an individual who uses unarmed strikes (no weapons or Natural Weapons)? It can be mundane, magical, or whatever but it needs to focus on the fists.

[Troacctid]

Probably involves using Chill Touch to fire off X punches in one standard action, where X is your caster level, with each punch dealing an extra 1d6 damage and 1 Strength damage. That's my guess anyway.

[Rebel7284]

First of all, Unarmed Strike tends to be a fairly suboptimal combat style. With that said, here are some things that can be done with it:

1. Druid 18/Monk 2 - Wisdom to AC without needing a Monk's belt and the ability to add a full unarmed attack to your natural attacks in wildshape.
2. Monk 1-2/Psychic Warrior 18-19 - Tashalatora feat to get full Monk abilities on a Psychic Warrior. Various "King of Smack" builds work from here.
3. Unarmed Swordsage 20 - Vague wording in adaptation section requires the DM to make some decisions about how this works.
4. Monk 2/X 3/Ur Priest 2/Sacred Fist 10 - if text over table progression of Sacred Fist is allowed, this build is great. Otherwise it's merely good. Make X = Duskblade to punch people with Harm.
5. Wizard 20 - Greater Mighty Wallop + Heroics for Improved Unarmed Strike makes for a great unarmed strike focused character without wasting a single class level on it.

[gorfnab]

Chicken Infested (flaw)+ Quick Draw (feat) + Improved Unarmed Strike (feat) + Greater Consumptive Field (spell)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/Vegitto-Kun/Forum/Chickensgivemestrength1.jpg

[Extra Anchovies]

The above-mentioned Monk/Psywar with Tashalatora and Monk/Duskblade/Ur-Priest/Sacred Fist are both pretty solid.

My favorite unarmed strike-based build is definitely the punchbearian. Barbarian (Lion Spirit Totem ACF from Complete Champion; City Brawler ACF from Dragon 349) 4/Fist of the Forest 3/Bear Warrior 1/Warshaper 2/Bear Warrior +9/Warshaper +1. You end up turning into a bear and rolling lots of damage dice, it's great fun.

[Tvtyrant]

Probably involves using Chill Touch to fire off X punches in one standard action, where X is your caster level, with each punch dealing an extra 1d6 damage and 1 Strength damage. That's my guess anyway.

How does this work? Where is the cl flurry from?

[Troacctid]

How does this work? Where is the cl flurry from?
If a spell allows you to make multiple attacks and has a casting time of 1 standard action, all attacks occur during that standard action unless otherwise stated (RC 136). And whenever a spell requires a melee touch attack to hit, you can substitute an unarmed strike attack against normal AC to add your unarmed damage to the spell (RC 132).

[Metahuman1]

With mentioning that Binder (Tome of Magic.) has a 1st level Vestige that gives Monk unarmed strike progression/powers, and can bind other vestiges to augment that unarmed striking fighting style, allow him to swap it out when the situation mandates, or allow him to split the difference and have solid unarmed damage but also the ability to do other things besides.



Improved and maybe Superior Unarmed strike and a bit of refluffing and a Totemist can do the "insane number of super fast attacks." style of unarmed and be a very effective grappler with solid defenses and a few other tricks up his sleeve.


Improved + Superior Unarmed strike can also make Barbarians, Fighters, Warblades, Crusaders and I'm sure other classes that aren' instantly jumping to mind viable for Melee combat using unarmed as well.


High enough Con and the Kung Fu Genious/Carmidine Monk Feat and Monk can gish unarmed well with Wu Gen, Archivist, Artificer, Wizard, or add the Tash feat mentioned earlier, Psion or Erudite.

He also Gishes well with Ardent, and the Astetic Mage feat let's Gishing with Sorcerer and other Cha based casters have at least a chance of working.

[J-H]

I'm pretty sure the highest damage output comes from effective size changing. It's a CharOp thing I don't remember, but you can get up to 6d8-8d8 damage per punch by combining feats, spells, etc. I assume there's a strength bonus with the size changes as well, which helps to-hit and adds flat damage on top of the buckets of dice.

[MisterKaws]

Tashalatora Spell to Power Erudite with Divine Power (learned from a friendly Geomancer), Greater Mighty Wallop, the entire Wu-jen spell list, and some other cheesy tactics.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

More psywar, less monk. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial/page25&p=15474863#post15474863)

It's powerful without being T.O. You should be able to squidge this into an actual game, if you tried.

[Inevitability]

Kensei can add some interesting properties to a monk's unarmed strike. Ghost Touch for at-will (in)corporeality? Brilliant Energy to make all nonliving material pass through yourself entirely? Vorpal (with versatile unarmed strike) to slice someone's head off with your bare hands?

[Ruethgar]

If you are fine with cheese, Magically Adept or Magical Affinity(get them mixed up) can switch out your Gnome SLA and Redhead can get you the SLA you need without Gnome and with less cheese. Only Sanctum and Heighten spell modify spell level so you can pick Twin Persist Elemalific Energy Admixture Searing Produce Flame(or just Twin Persist) that gets you a practically perpetual fire fists. Miser With Magic plus Furnace Within and spell side effects can get you even more elemental damage on your fists.

It should also be noted that City Brawler Spirit Lion Totem Barbarians are a great unarmed build dip and that it sets a precedent for the Two Weapon Fighting line to work with unarmed.

[MisterKaws]

Kensei can add some interesting properties to a monk's unarmed strike. Ghost Touch for at-will (in)corporeality? Brilliant Energy to make all nonliving material pass through yourself entirely? Vorpal (with versatile unarmed strike) to slice someone's head off with your bare hands?

Throwing

notenoughcharacters

[georgie_leech]

What's your cheese tolerance? 'Cause there was a thread a few years back that involved using Monks to punch the Elder Evils to death. The builds were stinkier than Epoisses, but I it would be hard to be more effective at punching things.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

What's your cheese tolerance? 'Cause there was a thread a few years back that involved using Monks to punch the Elder Evils to death. The builds were stinkier than Epoisses, but I it would be hard to be more effective at punching things.I linked to a post in that thread above.

[georgie_leech]

I linked to a post in that thread above.

So you did! That post wasn't there when I started making my post; I wanted to link to the builds but couldn't remember which page they were on. And then in the process of looking, I got sidetracked reading and it took me more than an hour to get the post done. :smallredface:

[Inevitability]

Throwing

notenoughcharacters

Be a warforged for extra fun.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/chrono/images/8/8d/Crono_Trigger_Rocket_Punch.png/revision/latest?cb=20100914010602

[Âmesang]

If a spell allows you to make multiple attacks and has a casting time of 1 standard action, all attacks occur during that standard action unless otherwise stated (RC 136). And whenever a spell requires a melee touch attack to hit, you can substitute an unarmed strike attack against normal AC to add your unarmed damage to the spell (RC 132).
Would it be possible to combine that with Reach Spell/arcane reach or are you stuck with melee touch attacks?

[Andezzar]

ThrowingDon't forget returning, otherwise your unarmed strike is gone.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Don't forget returning, otherwise your unarmed strike is gone.A monk's entire body is usable in an unarmed strike, so just throw all of it; you'll follow right after.

[Andezzar]

A monk's entire body is usable in an unarmed strike, so just throw all of it; you'll follow right after.Everyone can use the unarmed strike with their entire body not just monks. the problem is the rules do not say how throwing a natural weapon (yes the unarmed strike is a natural weapon) works.

[Troacctid]

Would it be possible to combine that with Reach Spell/arcane reach or are you stuck with melee touch attacks?
Melee touch attacks only.


A monk's entire body is usable in an unarmed strike, so just throw all of it; you'll follow right after.
Source?

[Andezzar]

Source?That an unarmed stike can be performed by anyone with any surface of the body is in the PHB:
A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike, which may be a punch, kick, head butt, or other type of attack.emphasis mine.

Why you would follow when you throw your unarmed strike, I have no idea. T0he kensai description even explicitly talks about what to do when you lose your fists.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Source?The rules.

An unarmed strike can be made with any part of the body, be it a punch, kick, shoulder-check, body slam, headbutt, knee to the groin, or whatever. If you were to hurl your torso via a throwing unarmed strike, what happens? I seriously doubt that your torso goes but leaves your extremities behind.

[Troacctid]

That an unarmed stike can be performed by anyone with any surface of the body is in the PHB:

emphasis mine.
How do you get from there to the whole body all at once? That seems about as plausible as saying that it would include, say, spitting at them.


The rules.

An unarmed strike can be made with any part of the body, be it a punch, kick, shoulder-check, body slam, headbutt, knee to the groin, or whatever. If you were to hurl your torso via a throwing unarmed strike, what happens? I seriously doubt that your torso goes but leaves your extremities behind.
The rules don't say that.

Also, the whole body is not part of the body.

I think if I threw my torso without throwing the rest of me, I would be very unhappy with the results.

[Andezzar]

How do you get from there to the whole body all at once? That seems about as plausible as saying that it would include, say, spitting at them.I don't, MaxiDuRaritry seems to think it works that way. While the UAS can be performed with any part of the body, there is no rule saying it can be performed with all parts at the same time. While ridiculous, if a Kensai performs a ranged attack with a signature unarmed strike, that unarmed strike is gone. It is up to the DM to say whether a body part is also gone and if and where it can be retrieved and if you need regeneration or surgery to reattach it.

[Troacctid]

I don't, MaxiDuRaritry seems to think it works that way. While the UAS can be performed with any part of the body, there is no rule saying it can be performed with all parts at the same time.
There's actually no rule that says unarmed strikes can be performed with any part of the body either, as far as I'm aware.

[Andezzar]

There's actually no rule that says unarmed strikes can be performed with any part of the body either, as far as I'm aware.Well at least any part that can be used for an attack as I quoted above (PHB p. 121). The eyelash stab would be pushing it pretty far.

[Âmesang]

Personally I can't help but imagine a character jumping up and dive kicking his opponent.

Works for Dr. Doom. :smallamused:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

How do you get from there to the whole body all at once? That seems about as plausible as saying that it would include, say, spitting at them.

The rules don't say that.

Also, the whole body is not part of the body.

I think if I threw my torso without throwing the rest of me, I would be very unhappy with the results.The list of parts of the body is explicitly not exhaustive, as it leaves open the possibilities for many other types of attack.

Now, as far as doing a long-range body-check, let's try an experiment. Stand up and move your torso across the room, as fast as you can. Do it again, this time in a different way. Repeat in as many ways as you can think of, running and jumping as necessary.

Now, how many of those ways resulted in your torso moving without the rest of you following after?

Remember, the rules say that, in lieu of rules saying otherwise, things in the D&D world react just like they do in the real world. Now we can apply that to unarmed strikes.

See? Isn't learning fun?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GD6qtc2_AQA/maxresdefault.jpg

[Andezzar]

The list of parts of the body is explicitly not exhaustive, as it leaves open the possibilities for many other types of attack.Yes, the list is not exhaustive, but nowhere does it say that all parts perform the attack at the same time. It gets really silly if they did. It would mean that not only a fist would connect with an opponent, but the front and back of your head as well, as well as all your innards etc..


Now, as far as doing a long-range body-check, let's try an experiment. Stand up and move your torso across the room, as fast as you can. Do it again, this time in a different way. Repeat in as many ways as you can think of, running and jumping as necessary.

Now, how many of those ways resulted in your torso moving without the rest of you following after?

Remember, the rules say that, in lieu of rules saying otherwise, things in the D&D world react just like they do in the real world. Now we can apply that to unarmed strikes.What does that have to do with anything? Adding the throwing property to an unarmed strike has no real world analogue

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Yes, the list is not exhaustive, but nowhere does it say that all parts perform the attack at the same time. It gets really silly if they did. It would mean that not only a fist would connect with an opponent, but the front and back of your head as well, as well as all your innards etc..It's entirely possible to smack someone with a body-check, which consists of your shoulder, flank, and hip, which is basically everything but your limbs. If you hurl yourself at someone bodily, your limbs do not go flying off, even if you move more than 5' to do so.


What does that have to do with anything? Adding the throwing property to an unarmed strike has no real world analogue3e already allows you to throw your unarmed strike, just like you can with any weapon; it's just that, normally, it's a 5' range increment for doing so (IIRC). The throwing property only changes the range and the fact that it's officially considered a ranged weapon. And since nothing else changes, throwing your unarmed strike via a body-check doesn't mean your limbs are separated from the rest of you, since nothing else is said on the subject.

Unless you have a quote saying you must remove your head and limbs if you body-check someone at range?

[Andezzar]

It's entirely possible to smack someone with a body-check, which consists of your shoulder, flank, and hip, which is basically everything but your limbs. If you hurl yourself at someone bodily, your limbs do not go flying off, even if you move more than 5' to do so.Not only are your limbs missing the back of the torso and the entirety of your body beneath its surface does not connect with your enemy. So no it is not all parts at the same time.


3e already allows you to throw your unarmed strike, just like you can with any weapon; it's just that, normally, it's a 5' range increment for doing so (IIRC).Please quote that rule. An unarmed strike is a natural weapon and thus part of your body. You cannot make ranged attacks with it.


The throwing property only changes the range and the fact that it's officially considered a ranged weapon.And that does not work IRL so we can only go by the rules.


And since nothing else changes, throwing your unarmed strike via a body-check doesn't mean your limbs are separated from the rest of you, since nothing else is said on the subject.A ranged attakc requires some form of projectile. Thrown weapons (or melee weapons with the throwing property) land in the target's square. Since you do not perform an unarmed strike with all parts of your body at the same time, some part must be the projectile. The projectile is obviously not part of the attacker after it is launched. So parts do fall off.



Unless you have a quote saying you must remove your head and limbs if you body-check someone at range?You cannot make a body check as a ranged attack. You can only move to your opponent and then make the body check.

[Troacctid]

Now, as far as doing a long-range body-check, let's try an experiment. Stand up and move your torso across the room, as fast as you can. Do it again, this time in a different way. Repeat in as many ways as you can think of, running and jumping as necessary.

Now, how many of those ways resulted in your torso moving without the rest of you following after?
If you're running and jumping towards them, we call that a charge attack. We have rules for that. It's not a ranged attack.

[Mato]

Class: Warforged monk 2 / stp erudite 18
Feats: improved natural weapon, energy substitution(electricity), energy admixture.
Spells/powers: greater mighty wallop, expansion, venomfire.
Items: battle fist shoved into the cave of gems, ectoplasmic fist, poison fangs, minor schema of metamagic item, wand of cl 20 venomfire.
It deals 48d8 bludgeoning +20d6 acid +21d6 electricity +1d6 fire +1d6 cold, or 366+str per hit but is disallowed on GitP. Something about if a force dragon wanted to wield a dagger in two hands he can buy a colossal++ dagger since weapons are sized according to their intended wearer is not good enough to claim you can keep increasing the size of unarmed strike but you can throw parts of your body is supposed to be a solid winning argument on GitP.