Final Fantasy Tactics: How is There No Thread for This?

[hustlertwo]

Seriously. Best game of all time. I have played it about two dozen times on three different platforms, and am pondering going through again. The endless customization is part of what eventually lured me to D&D as well.

On the note of a new play through, looking for suggestions from other FFT enthusiasts on how to do it this time, as I am not interested in a regular run this time out. Here is what I have done so far over various runs:

-A Monk Straight Character Challenge (finished)
-A Knight SCC (did not finish the whole game, got bored shortly after spending literally six hours getting through Riovanes and by the Igros Caatle fight in chapter 4 I was done).
-Ramza and Monsters only (a lot of fun, try it if you have never done it before. Good challenge without being absurdly hard)
-No unique character play through (interesting but still pretty easy)
-Random job assignment (this was my most recent run, did it last year. Rolled dice on the forum to determine primary and secondary job for each character. They were only allowed to be one of those two jobs, and could not have abilities from anything else. Kinda fascinating, pondering doing it again. Breaks you out of your comfort zone when you have an Archer/Summoner).

So aside from this game needing a thread, also looking for other suggestions on how to do the current run. Probably will not do another SCC though.

[danzibr]

Great idea! T deserves a thread.

I've played it only twice on the original PS. I was really considering getting it on my phone when I read you can't steal the Genji gear, ruined it for me.

[hustlertwo]

That was a bummer, especially since I learned it the hard way by trying to steal it for a good little while back when the War of the Lions version came out. But you get some of it as war trophies, and a lot of overpowered items that were not in the PS1 version. New jobs and battles too. And the cinematics are beautiful.

[Alanzeign]

I routinely come back to this game every few months/years. There's always some fun combination that I want to try, like trying to emulate a recent D&D party or MMO party of friends. Whenever I do something like that, I try to make it so that no abilities are duplicated across the party (all unique primary skills, secondaries, reactions, supports, and moves). It keeps things interesting. For example, I played a lot of FFXI back in the day and making parties with job/skill choices that reflect the classes in XI is a ton of fun.

One character type that I often come back to is the Paladin in some variation, i.e.:

Job: Knight
Secondary: White Magic
Reaction: Weapon Guard
Support: Magic Defense UP
Move: Move MP-UP

What I like about this build is that it has low mp and magic power, so the healing it can provide is limited, but the character is tanky enough to be in the melee. Also, because magic power is low spells like protect/shell carry more significant weight. It is fairly adaptable with gear as well, since knights can wear robes (sacrifice some HP for MP) and things like the mythril armlet (+1 PATK and MATK), so you can customize how caster oriented you want them to be.

This is not an optimized class build in any way, but it is really easy to curbstomp any fight in the game if you are familiar with the game and optimize. I get a lot more fun out of lower powered classes and making them fit a theme.

---

I haven't played WotL myself as I don't have the console or a good enough phone, so I'm not entirely sure what the differences are in that version. I do have to say that I generally prefer a hack of FFT to the original though, as it balances a lot of the OP choices and buffs up some of the weaker ones. It also gives better skill selection to the enemy and improves their AI drastically. The hack is called FFT 1.3 Insane Difficulty, though I mainly play FFT 1.3 Content (not insane mode).

Here's a link to the general changes:
http://www.insanedifficulty.com/idwiki/index.php?title=Final_Fantasy_Tactics_1.3

And a job chart:
http://www.insanedifficulty.com/idwiki/index.php?title=1.3_Generics

Content has all of the mechanical changes, including enhanced enemy AI/skill selection, but without the insane difficulty. I got about 2/3 through the insane version a few years ago and my laptop died permanently with no backup, so I'll probably never attempt Insane again. I absolutely love the mechanical redesign and smarter enemy AI/skill groupings in Content though.

I honestly don't think I could go back to Vanilla FFT anymore with things like archers that essentially have no abilities (charge and shoot, or charge up a bunch and the enemies move so you miss). Still, the game will always be really special to me!

[Tono]

One of my favorite games ever. Come back every so often. Can't really play the phone version for long though. I just feel so much better using a controller. And the War of the Lion changes are really nice. Chance to get the Dark Knight job in game. A new chance to kill Algus. Luso for more Super Squire action. A few new scenes. A major improvement all around really. Unless you're on the PSP without the slow down fix. Then I can't play it.

My more recent playthroughs all really only have one thing in common- I try to play at as low of a level as possible now. Gets too easy otherwise.


I nearly lost it when I saw Ramza in the new Dissidia Arcade game. Looks so fresh and the Heretic Armor looks good.

[danzibr]

Oh! Tono, what you said reminded me of something. My only beef with this game is the fact that the random encounters level with you, but the story battles do not.

[Triaxx]

Finath River...

I love this game. I tried a random challenge, but I got such a weird set of abilities on Ramza I couldn't get through Weigraf.

On the other hand, I knew Ulty, who did the TrueCalc SCC, and remember several of the stories in the background of his guide/LP of it.

I tend to try out weird tactics, or abilities that everyone else thinks shouldn't work.

[Seerow]

I was big into this game years ago, and it's still one of my favorites. I did buy/download the phone version of WoTL but couldn't get into it, the UI on the phone just doesn't feel right to me.

I think my most fun playthrough was a Geomancer SCC. Easiest 'challenge' was Holy Swordsman SSCC (even with Ramza Solo, Holy Swordsman is just OP). If I went back to it today I'd probably do either a random challenge or a Samurai SCC (though now that I think about it that would be really painful up until whatever act Katanas start showing up. So maybe not).

[Triaxx]

Katana's show up in act 2. Act 1 consists primarily of getting Blade Grasp, since it has no issue blocking everything. I got part way through a lancer SCC, and that was suprisingly fun without spears, because even a bunch of you landing on enemy heads without weapons hurts quite badly.

[hustlertwo]

Finath River...

I love this game. I tried a random challenge, but I got such a weird set of abilities on Ramza I couldn't get through Weigraf.

On the other hand, I knew Ulty, who did the TrueCalc SCC, and remember several of the stories in the background of his guide/LP of it.

I tend to try out weird tactics, or abilities that everyone else thinks shouldn't work.

I was lucky with my random run on the classes Ramza got. Squire/Geomancer, and of course his Squire class maintains value all game long. And Geo gave Attack Boost, Counter Flood and overall decent ranged attacks. Wiegraf was no incredible challenge.

True Calc SCC, what masochism. Challenge is one thing, but that is insanity. Probably will not do a SCC, the battles get so boring from all the sameness after a while. Am pondering either going no magic classes, or all magic classes.

That mod for FFT sounds a little too cheesy. More HP and speed does not a true strategic challenge make.

[Triaxx]

This wasn't that. It was a full team, randomly assigned and stuck with. So I had a Bard Ramza with Knight Skills, Arrow Grasp, and Move-GetXP. The rest of the team was similarly built. Depressingly useless. Fine as part of a group, but one on one? No dice.

[hustlertwo]

Yeah, that is a bad setup. Bard would be almost impossible to save with any ability set, especially Knight.

[danzibr]

How do you pros handle brave and faith? Max brave min faith on your melee peeps?

And zodiac signs? I know jack about this.

[hustlertwo]

Zodiac signs matter for battles but no reason to care about having specific ones on your team. Just something you look at before attacks.

Faith matters a lot more for mages than Brave for physical fighters. Brave mostly just impacts reaction abilities. Faith directly determines magic damage both taken and received. So while that means low Faith is usually good for someone who will not use spells, at the same time that makes it hard to heal or raise them effectively.

[Triaxx]

Actually, a party of pure monks, as long as you keep yourselves on reasonably level ground(IE one of two squares the same height at least), can get away with being basically agnostic, since their success rates don't rely on faith.

[Seerow]

How do you pros handle brave and faith? Max brave min faith on your melee peeps?

And zodiac signs? I know jack about this.

Really depends on team comp.

For SCCs it's usually pretty simple, you always want high brave; and faith is high if you're a caster low otherwise. (In some weird cases for harder SCCs you may want one inverted for odd strats like baiting out a specific spell or something, but that's like truecalc level BS that most people aren't going to bother with).

For mixed teams you follow the same general guideline, but with the addendum that some faith is nice if you have any support magic. Faith impacts not just healing amounts (though that is valuable), but also success rates for buff spells and other such things. On the other hand if you're running a team that relies on stuff like Monks and Samurai for support, you can afford to dump faith entirely; running around with a team at minimum (03) faith is pretty nice for general tankiness as it shuts down most enemy status and direct damage spells.

Edit: Zodiac signs between party members can increase synergy. So if you have something like a high faith caster combined with low-mid faith melee but best Zodiac compatibility, you can get pretty effective spells on your own units while still being pretty tanky against the majority of matchups. Other than that a main concern would be having Ramza set up with a good compatibility for certain fights (usually Wiegraf), but that only matters in certain challenge scenarios.

[T.G. Oskar]

It's one of the few games I've finished twice, in different playthroughs. The other is Shadowrun Returns (both the first campaign and Dragonfall). And I bought War of the Lions.

I recall finding about it on the demo CD that came with Vagrant Story (which I rented, of course), and I found the game was so great, I just had to purchase it. Those first chapters were merciless (Dorter, then Windmill Hut vs. Wiegraf), but then the difficulty just caved in until you get Orland(ea)u, and then it's pretty much impossible to lose except on the special random battles. I recall going with Squire/Monk for Ramza, but then I found Samurai was even more awesome and went for Squire/Samurai - Bushido/Draw Out is one of those unique skillsets that has everything, including some sweet buffs and AoE healing, for no cost whatsoever. Tweaking with the builds was fun, as well - in one of the playthroughs, I actually made Agrias a Thief for the explicit purpose of stealing all of the Genji equipment. That was an achievement; that said, I don't mind that Elmdor has Maintenance in the remake, as while the Genji equipment is really solid on its own, it echoes the feel of lack of accessibility from Matsuno-made games (see: Tactics Ogre and all those inaccessible pieces of equipment the Dark Knights wore).

WotL is a pretty interesting remake, though the lack of other people with PSPs AND the game kinda ruined it, because of lack of access to ad-hoc multiplayer. The Dark Knight skillset is pretty interesting, the new stuff is pretty cool, but I miss the quotes when casting spells or using sword skills. The new battles aren't as challenging (particularly once you get the Dark Knight skill, a Calculator or some of the more advanced classes, or Orland[ea]u), but are pretty cool, and give you a sweet rematch against Algus/Argath, and let you control Delita in combat. Since Ramza was a prime candidate for Dark Knight status (hey, he needs the sword skills!), I basically turned Orland(ea)u from Godlike to Official God by adding Bushido. Nothing can be more outright broken than making the best attacker in the game a solid healer and buffer as well, because of the effects of the katanas. Or the set of items that provide you with all buffs that the Wall spell gives you (Chaos Blade, Excalibur, Robe of Lords and Angel Ring). Less broken but still interesting was making Rapha and Marach useful...by making them Bard and Dancer, respectively, and just slap Swiftness on them. Buffing or debuffing from a distance and stopping just to use the randomly accurate multi-hit spells gave them some utility after all. The extra slots also allowed me to tweak with builds, such as Ninja/Geomancer, or a Knight with Equip Crossbow to debuff from a distance (still effective by late game), slapping Arithmancy just for fun.

I guess that's what made it interesting for me - the ability to tweak characters into something interesting, including the story NPCs.

[KillingAScarab]

Actually, a party of pure monks, as long as you keep yourselves on reasonably level ground(IE one of two squares the same height at least), can get away with being basically agnostic, since their success rates don't rely on faith.I found this interesting, as Tactics has a lot of things about it I do not like, the double-edge on faith being one of them. Would it be possible to also completely ignore zodiac signs while using solely monks?

[Seerow]

I found this interesting, as Tactics has a lot of things about it I do not like, the double-edge on faith being one of them. Would it be possible to also completely ignore zodiac signs while using solely monks?

Yes.

Basically unless you are optimizing, you can ignore Zodiac Signs in just about any playthrough unless you are doing very specific challenges where certain matchups are critical. If you're doing a Monk SCC, that's one of the easier classes and you won't need to worry about compatibility. If you're just doing a regular playthrough with monk as a main focus, it's even easier. So I wouldn't worry too much about zodiac signs in general.

[Triaxx]

That said, Zodiac based matchups tend to be more frequently useful than faith based ones. For example, my primary party of Generics always has two females with the best match to Ramza, and two males with a good match to him.

Since I always give him Aquarius because that's mine, he tends to match well against most enemies. Particularly Weigraf if I recall correctly. Either him or Galg.... However his name is spelled.

[Seerow]

That said, Zodiac based matchups tend to be more frequently useful than faith based ones. For example, my primary party of Generics always has two females with the best match to Ramza, and two males with a good match to him.

Since I always give him Aquarius because that's mine, he tends to match well against most enemies. Particularly Weigraf if I recall correctly. Either him or Galg.... However his name is spelled.

Gafgarion?

[Hunter Noventa]

Ah man, FFT is such a good game. I've played it countless times, both on my PS1 and on PSP (both versions, since a hacked PSP can play PS1 games)

When it came to Zodiac signs, after a while I left Ramza's birthday as Jan 1, this gives you Capricorn which has a lot of good compatibilities with bosses and some fixed enemies, as well as some fixed party members.

I never got around to finishing an SCC, I started a Monk one but it fell by the wayside.

One of the more entertaining things I did was hacking my game saves. Using a DexDrive (An arcane device from the late 90s, that allowed the transfer of PS1 memory card data to a PC) and some specialized programs, i was able to do all sorts of fun things like adding enemies or NPCs to my party, putting ability sets you basically never see used into my party, stuff like that. Like, I added Zalbag to my party and finally got to see his actual abilities, because the two battles he's in, his AI prioritizes doing damage which his abilities don't. Or adding one of the Assassin girls. Or Izlude. Or Elmdor.

If I didn't have so many other games to play, I'd probably play it again sometime.

[Triaxx]

Yes, Gafgarion. That's the one. of course he's never terribly hard to deal with anyway.

[hustlertwo]

Especially at the waterfall, since after the first time you play you know his defection is coming so you can turn him into an unarmed Wizard. Not taking my good swords, Gaff Gafgarion.

[KillingAScarab]

Yes.

Basically unless you are optimizing, you can ignore Zodiac Signs in just about any playthrough unless you are doing very specific challenges where certain matchups are critical. If you're doing a Monk SCC, that's one of the easier classes and you won't need to worry about compatibility. If you're just doing a regular playthrough with monk as a main focus, it's even easier. So I wouldn't worry too much about zodiac signs in general.


That said, Zodiac based matchups tend to be more frequently useful than faith based ones. For example, my primary party of Generics always has two females with the best match to Ramza, and two males with a good match to him.Thanks for the advice. Perhaps I will someday give FFT another shot. With the JP scroll glitch (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/JP_scroll_glitch) to grab everything from chemist, because not being able to use your purchased items is dumb.

[Seerow]

Thanks for the advice. Perhaps I will someday give FFT another shot. With the JP scroll glitch (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/JP_scroll_glitch) to grab everything from chemist, because not being able to use your purchased items is dumb.

I'll be honest the last several times I played I either hacked all abilities/jobs unlocked or abused the scroll glitch.

Spending 3 hours in 3-4 random battles accumulating against a speed broken enemy to max out jp on a small party isn't particularly challenging, but not really all that engaging either. I'd rather just have my abilities and enjoy playing.

[Gnoman]

Spending 3 hours in 3-4 random battles accumulating against a speed broken enemy to max out jp on a small party isn't particularly challenging, but not really all that engaging either. I'd rather just have my abilities and enjoy playing.

That is a terrible way to get JP. It is both faster and much more entertaining to simply take advantage of spillover, especially when you only bother getting the abilities worth having in the first place.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, I used that once, but it breaks the game enough to be boring.

Frankly, it's not so bad earning JP if you use the bonus JP power from Squires and tweak actions so you get lots of JP for them. IE use the least powerful attack, instead of strongest one. The longer the fight lasts, the more JP you get. That said, I never found a reason to get ALL the item abilities, just because by the time I get magic, that's more effective, and most of the others I end up never using.

Seriously, how often have you used an item to cure silence, instead of just stomping forward and beating whoever did it over the head with a sharp object?

[Gnoman]

The best way to get JP is to just make everybody the class you want to get abilities for while wandering around the map, then fight any random encounter without any other gimmicks. This will get most of the good abilities for most classes in two or three battles, and is nothing more than fighting battles you'd have to fight (if you're just hitting the randoms while going to the next story battle or making a run to Igros to buy armor or something) anyway. It doesn't break the game over your knee like the JP Scroll glitch does, but FFT is honestly much too easy as it is with the exception of two, maybe three story battles.

[danzibr]

Ugh. Yeah. JP grinding, hated that. If only the random battles didn't scale...

[Hunter Noventa]

Ugh. Yeah. JP grinding, hated that. If only the random battles didn't scale...

Yeah, the only way to stop the scaling is with the use of a level down trap.But you have to make sure to switch to a class with poor growths to do that, so you take less of a hit. it's a pain in the rear.

It's less of a problem once you get to say, chapter 3 and can buy good gear, but in 1 and 2 you want to try not to grind too much.

[Tono]

Or just grind in a way that doesn't level your character. Impair the enemy, get a low level allied unit(I prefer to use cloud if that late in the game) and proceed to repeatedly hit them gaining 1 exp the whole way. Or take a 'sacrifical' character, have them steal all the exp away, then kill em when done. You can master classes and gain no levels.

[danzibr]

I think for kicks I might make a no-magic party. Assuming I replay the game at some point :P

Everyone min faith, max brave, do stuff like Ninja + Monk, Dragoon, Knight, Chemist. Yeah, I'm feeling it.

Geomancer might be okay. No pure casters, like BM, WM, TM, Summoner.

[Hunter Noventa]

I think for kicks I might make a no-magic party. Assuming I replay the game at some point :P

Everyone min faith, max brave, do stuff like Ninja + Monk, Dragoon, Knight, Chemist. Yeah, I'm feeling it.

Geomancer might be okay. No pure casters, like BM, WM, TM, Summoner.

An interesting challenge. I don't think Geomancer uses Faith in their damage calculations. You'll be relying heavily on your Chemist/Throw item, but that's not a horrible thing really, at least once you get guns. But Item + Throw item works on a lot of classes as a secondary. Archer, Thief, Mediator. Though you'd have to level some magic-using classes to get Mediator, which is the way to reduce Faith. Ramza's better at increasing Brave.

But yeah, the only classes that use Faith are Priest, Wizard, Time Mage, Summoner, and Oracle.

[hustlertwo]

Ugh. Yeah. JP grinding, hated that. If only the random battles didn't scale...


An interesting challenge. I don't think Geomancer uses Faith in their damage calculations. You'll be relying heavily on your Chemist/Throw item, but that's not a horrible thing really, at least once you get guns. But Item + Throw item works on a lot of classes as a secondary. Archer, Thief, Mediator. Though you'd have to level some magic-using classes to get Mediator, which is the way to reduce Faith. Ramza's better at increasing Brave.

But yeah, the only classes that use Faith are Priest, Wizard, Time Mage, Summoner, and Oracle.

I would argue you would be even more reliant on Monks, since they would be one of the few sources of healing and life restoration as well as ranged damage. But I have never been as fond of Chemists as the rest of the FFT community. Always found buying the million items you need to use them regularly to be a chore that slows down purchase of the good weapons and armor on the early to mid game. And the spell guns come pretty late.

I may tackle this as well. All magic promises to be a bit too vanilla, so no magic might offer more variety of combat than just a pack of Summoners with Calculation abilities running roughshod over the populace.

[Triaxx]

For the task at hand, nothing beats Aerostar's Battle Mechanics Guide (http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/faqs/3876) on GameFAQ's.

Elemental is (PA+2)/2*MA. The game counts it as a magical attack, but it's not affected by faith, either the caster's or the target's.

[dragonsamurai77]

Yeah, the only way to stop the scaling is with the use of a level down trap.But you have to make sure to switch to a class with poor growths to do that, so you take less of a hit. it's a pain in the rear.

It's less of a problem once you get to say, chapter 3 and can buy good gear, but in 1 and 2 you want to try not to grind too much.

I once ground out DK in WoTL about halfway through chapter 1. Not the most fun thing I've ever done in a game, but at least I made an alternate save so I can keep making new files from it.

[hustlertwo]

I have a file where I beat the game some time ago on my PSP, and still only recently got DK for my first guy from fighting in Deep Dungeon. So getting it in ch.1 is crazypants.

[Shpadoinkle]

I go back to this game occasionally. Not really playing through it normally, just wandering around the world map in chapter 4, right before the final series of battles, fighting random encounters with job setups that are solid, but not overpowered enough to make battles jokes (because that's fun for a little while, but having no challenge gets boring quickly.) I also haven't been using armor or weapons that you can get past chapter 2.

The setups I'm using presently:

Ramza
Squire
Draw Out (Not allowed to use anything stronger than Murasame)
Abandon
Concentrate
Move +2

Rad
Archer
Draw Out
Auto Potion
Concentrate
Move+3

Rafa
Chemist
Throw
Abandon
Concentrate
Move+2

Lavian
Chemist
Time Magic
Abandon
Equip Crossbow
Move+2

Cloud
Soldier
Time Magic
Auto Potion
Short Charge
Move+3

Alicia
Archer
White Magic
Abandon
Short Charge
Move+2

Beowulf
Geomancer
Item
Abandon
Throw item
Move+2

Reis
Summoner
Throw
Abandon
Short Charge
Move+2

Meliadoul
Geomancer
Jump
Abandon
Equip Spear
Move +2

Malak
Wizard
White Magic
Abandon
Short Charge
Move+3

Orlandu
Holy Swordsman
Item
Auto Potion
Throw Item
Move+3

Agrias
Holy Knight
Punch Art
Abandon
Martial Arts
Move +2

Mustadio
Chemist
Snipe
Abandon
Equip Shield
Move+3

[dragonsamurai77]

I have a file where I beat the game some time ago on my PSP, and still only recently got DK for my first guy from fighting in Deep Dungeon. So getting it in ch.1 is crazypants.

Took ~15-20 hours with super-focused grinding (i.e., keeping one enemy alive, surrounding it, beating on it barehanded, and healing it as necessary). Several deleveling sessions were of course needed as well. Super annoying and probably not worth it unless you're as obsessed with the archetype as I am, but not completely impossible.

[hustlertwo]

Decided I will do something similar to the FFV Fiesta everyone talks about. Here are my rolls, used the job list on a Wikia for the game and excluded Mime (too boring), Onion Knight (way too boring), and Dark Knight (crazy prereqs).

Bard, Squire, Geomancer, Archer and Mediator. Rough. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?498774-FFT-Fiesta-Run!&p=21147341#post21147341)

[Triaxx]

That's actually not so bad. Bard's ability to keep the party healed, geo being a flat out murder machine, Mediator having the power to put people to sleep or be an evil version of the Suicide Hotline. Squire isn't so bad if you take advantage of accumulate, and Archers used properly are hilariously strong.

[hustlertwo]

From a pure job standpoint I would call it a rough group. No true mages, no reviving, and only one real tank in the Geo. But apparently you can do abilities from all the selected jobs, and that is where this becomes more doable. The Squire gets Bard's Move+3 to get across the field fast. The Bard has Counter Flood to utilize his high MA. Most important, guns for the Archer thanks to the Mediator, so he can ignore the game's fairly bummy bows. Sadly, no Thief to allow for stealing or poaching, but Mediator lets us get the elemental gun in the Reis subquest by inviting that guy, at least. Will probably make Ramza a Squire/Geo for a lot of it. I like that combo even when I am not locked into a quarter of the normal jobs available. Not optimized but it is fun.

[Triaxx]

I think you underestimate the power of the bows. Guns have a fixed range, while a bow gains a huge advantage to range with height. In Dorter for example, the archer up top can shoot most of the map.

[hustlertwo]

But in most story battles in this game, you start at a disadvantage height-wise. And crossbows ignore height but are too underpowered.

[Triaxx]

Fair enough. And the random draw robbed you of the best special abilities for them.

On the other hand, a Squire or Geo with Charge +1/2 is a pretty nice combo. Those fire quick enough to be useful, but still provide a worthwhile damage bonus.

[KillingAScarab]

Decided I will do something similar to the FFV Fiesta everyone talks about. Here are my rolls, used the job list on a Wikia for the game and excluded Mime (too boring), Onion Knight (way too boring), and Dark Knight (crazy prereqs).

Bard, Squire, Geomancer, Archer and Mediator. Rough. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?498774-FFT-Fiesta-Run!&p=21147341#post21147341)


From a pure job standpoint I would call it a rough group. No true mages, no reviving, and only one real tank in the Geo. But apparently you can do abilities from all the selected jobs, and that is where this becomes more doable.As someone participating in the Four Job Fiesta, I have suggestions to give. First, FF5 is a game where you have no more than four party members at a time, so you don't need to worry about party composition changing too frequently. I have read advice for FFT suggesting that guest characters join so often that you may as well just get rid of one of the 1st 4 generic characters following Ramza. While that's a playstyle choice, perhaps there should be only 4 random jobs assigned? Not sure how to handle guest characters; should they be knocked out at the start of a battle or do you need them to survive as part of the victory conditions?

Yes, in the Four Job Fiesta challenge, you can swap who is using which jobs and then continue using abilities earned from the other assigned jobs; you just have to make sure there's at least one character using each job which is available. There is a variant set of rules you can add to the challenge, Natural Crystal, which requires characters to never switch away from the job gained from the crystal with which they are affiliated. Before that job is available, the character must use Freelancer, which you start the game with before any sets of jobs have been unlocked. Natural isn't as popular, probably because quite a bit of fun comes from mixing and matching jobs and abilities, and Natural expressly forbids the use of abilities from other jobs.

In FFT access to a specific job is on a per-character basis, isn't it? There could be jobs assigned which are not immediately available. Bard is very much this. In keeping with the spirit of the challenge, you would need to unlock them by using prerequisite jobs as quickly as possible, or otherwise minimize how much impact those prerequisites have upon your progress. Since you were assigned bard and mediator, a bard could keep using speechcraft, but not summon magic.

I think the big difference between using non-magical jobs in FFT and FF5 is that in FF5 the ability to use a phoenix down isn't considered aligned with a specific job. FF5 Chemist and Ninja have things which only they can use through the !Drink and !Throw commands, but the game can certainly be completed without them. The Four Job Fiesta also has another variant rule where you are assigned only jobs which aren't considered magical and you are expressly forbidden from breaking rods to cast spells and it is quite possible to complete. But that limitation of the item command which ties it to Chemist in FFT... that's going to make it rough.

[Triaxx]

It's less of a hassle than it sounds. The Bard can Sing, which includes a constant healing effect that gets surprisingly powerful. Three male bards can keep two other units from dying to just about anything, and if those two units happen to be Squire Ramza and a Female Geomancer? Yeah, that's not going to be very hard at all. Sing even syncs well with Geomancy I believe. Heal's MA+10 every time it fires, and hits every friendly on the field. And I can't think of anything that could hurt more than the 30+healing you're getting. Unless you get a Worst Zodiac match and even then, it'd have to be a critical on top to kill someone.

You can also bottom out Faith, because you've got no attacks that need it to be high. And the lower the better in that case.

Also, I assume you're following the Dorter Rule from the SCCC's? (Have to have the class unlocked before the battle in Dorter Trade City.) Though I'd allow leeway on Bard because it's so far in, and in any case, four Geomancers with the city powers will make mince out of the entire fight.

[Hunter Noventa]

I'd suggest, as a concession to the differences between FFV and FFT that you allow yourself to use Item, but not Throw item, otherwise you'll tear your hair out the moment someone dies.

Mediator could be incredible if you get lucky with Invitation, if only to have reinforcements for that one battle.

[Seerow]

I'd suggest, as a concession to the differences between FFV and FFT that you allow yourself to use Item, but not Throw item, otherwise you'll tear your hair out the moment someone dies.

Mediator could be incredible if you get lucky with Invitation, if only to have reinforcements for that one battle.

Item/revival is not anywhere near necessary in FFT. I know it is something you have in FF5, but in tactics healing is just something you generally don't need. Perma-death is annoying, but you have something like 3 rounds to finish the fight after someone drops.

[hustlertwo]

Oh, you definitely need healing in FFT. Hence why difficulty for SCC that don't involve healing is always ranked much higher than those that can (and classes like Chemist and Priest that have both healing and reviving are a 1 or a 2 out of 10). But I won't use Item, that's too much of a compromise from the random thing. And yes, Invite has some real power, both for temporary help and as the only avenue left to get some of the powerful, non-buyable equipment thanks to not having Steal, Poach or Treasure Hunter. Especially if I decide to take a trip to Deep Dungeon at game's end.

Though inspired by the four job thing, this won't be that literal. Especially since I know little about FFV, as every time I tried to play through it I was rebuffed by how terminally boring it was outside of combat, and even the fights themselves got rather samey thanks to the limits of ATB. FFT is like the mixed-race offspring of Tactics Ogre and FFV, but far superior to both of its forebears. So it'll be with five instead of four, and I will shoot for Dorter to get all jobs besides Bard, but because people can shift between some random fights may see them doing other stuff to also get access to Bard (since the sublime move skills of that job will be critical to success with this run; eventually all 5 will likely have either Move +3 or Fly). My goal with Bard is just to be there by chapter 2, otherwise the amount of grinding needed will be tragic. Guests tend to get offed in battle by friendly fire even in regular playthroughs, so they don't steal skill crystals and use them to heal like goofs. So not much different there.

Funny how my random playthrough last year was both more and less restrictive. More, because each person got two jobs and could only use abilities between those two (so my Archer/Summoner was, basically, just a straight Summoner who jumped a bit higher, since Charge isn't that helpful when your attacks are not ranged). But also less, because that meant there was a larger number of ability sets available on the team. One of which was Calculator. We will feel its lack this time.

I am a couple battles in, going well. The future Bard is already up to Oracle. Ramza, of course, will be the Squire most of the time because his Squire class is steroid-infused goodness compared to a normal one, but is a Knight right now to start building toward Geomancer and that sweet Attack Boost. Occurs to me that since Mediator and Bard will both be minus good weapons for a long time, I may actually be using Equip Crossbows. Not often that skill sees the light of day.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Oh, you definitely need healing in FFT. Hence why difficulty for SCC that don't involve healing is always ranked much higher than those that can (and classes like Chemist and Priest that have both healing and reviving are a 1 or a 2 out of 10).The difficulty rankings from the original SCC guide? I'm pretty sure those are mostly guesswork from before anyone had made serious pushes at them. Hence things like the disclaimer that Riovanes Castle may be impossible for some classes, when in fact just about anyone can make it through as long as they've picked up the level 18 speed point. I wouldn't put too much stock in them.

The benefit of healing in FFT is that it gives you an escape clause to grind out battles. The flip side is that the hardest battles in the game are typically the fastest ones, where Chemist SCCs struggle due to lack of damage output or flexibility. Conversely, "typical" fights are very doable with non-healing SCCs as long as you mind your spacing and CT. Healing is a useful perk, not a requirement. (And most fights are only about 5 full rounds anyway, so as long as you aren't losing anyone until about the third turn, you're fine.)

That said, woof @ that draw for your five classes. Dishing Squire off to Ramza to take advantage of his extra goodies helps, but those picks don't exactly scream "synergy" with each other.

[Triaxx]

Speed boosted Geo-ubersquire? Geomancy gets better when your PA+MA are close together, and with Ramza having female MA growth stats... And a Geomancer with Charge? Plus Bard offers some of the best continuous healing in the game. And if you need a big jolt, Ramza gets a huge pool of HP and has Wish.

Super speed Bard's packing heat? Or with Mediator talk skills? Run up from across the map, talk to them until they're under a death sentence, and then bolt away.

Trust me, synergy is what you make of it.

Also the SCC rates Calc as harder than Mine and to my knowledge Calc has been done but Mime hasn't.

[hustlertwo]

I just cannot get excited about Charge. Of all five classes, Archer is the one bringing the least to the table. Squire is saved by Ramza, and at least gives us Move +1 until that distant day when I have both unlocked Bard for all 3 males in the party AND earned the whopping amount of JP needed to buy Move +3. Bard is a crap class, but a crap class with the best move skills and is my de facto healer. Geomancers are fairly good, with low damage on their abilities but status effects and lots of physical attacking tanktitude. Mediator lets me tweak stats (important since, as has been noted by several people, I don't need Faith and can send it down, down, down in order to protect my party of doubters from most magic), gives Equip Guns, and the Hail Mary of Invite that lets us get some good gear late in the game and a temporary party member anytime. Death Sentence is not a great status, and hit rate on all those things with Mediator is poor anyhow. But Archer gives no skills at all I would still be using in late game (though Equip Crossbows or Concentration may find some use earlier on) and Charging is just annoying. Plus, unless I go to Deep Dungeon the best bow I can get is the Artemis, which is several steps down from the best overall. Sucks I got stuck with them two random runs in a row.

A few overall group positives/negatives:

+ Move skills, at least for the dudes. Move +3 gives 6-7 total move, enough to lap a battlefield in a couple turns. Fly is a gamechanger on a small but significant minority of locations, and could be good on the Bard to put him somewhere out of harm's way while he prances about.

- Move skills for the two chicks (will be Geo and Mediator). Move+1 is the best we can do for them, since they cannot access Bard. Not the worst, but mediocre.

+ No one needing Faith. I may miss White Mage terribly, but since this is essentially a no-magic run as well as a random one, we can drop that stat to the cellar and walk past Summoners and Black Mages with impunity.

++ Ranged combat; every unit has the ability to deal at least some amount of damage from 4 or more panels away. Having done a Knight SCC, I can say that when you don't have that, you really feel the lack. Squire can't do much distance damage, but giving him Geo for a secondary will resolve that.

- Reaction skills. I get a couple of stat boosts that trigger on damage, Counter Tackle and Counter Flood. None of them will deal much damage or impact the battle in a significant way, compared to actual Counter, Hamedo, Blade Grasp, Soulbind, etc.

Currently at the Thieves' Den. No difficulty thus far, but then there would not be.

[Triaxx]

Depending on the weapon, Charge is very potent indeed. It's particularly strong with bows, knives, and musical instruments.

Counter-flood is actually randomly amazing. Having an enemy attack you, get damaged and then hit with a status effect? Say Don't Act?

Personally, I'd allow your females to become dancers, but only the duplicated support abilities. Like Footloose, no Dancing. :D

[Merlin the Tuna]

Oh, I assumed that you were single-classing 5 different characters. If you're letting all the characters mix and match skills between the 5 classes you pulled, yeah, you're golden - might as well be a Geomancer SCC with Move+1.

Agreed that Counter Flood is surprisingly effective. No range restrictions, triggers on more ability types than Counter/Blade Grasp, and you don't even need to know the corresponding elemental. Not that that matters, since the most common tile types pack some of the most devastating statuses. Arrow Guard also ends up being better than you'd think, since Archers are so overrepresented in story battles.

[Hunter Noventa]

Concentrate can be a pretty amazing ability, some battles can be really problematic due to evasion. But your party setup doesn't really need to worry about it due to Guns and Geomancy. it does suck that you won't really be able to get any Elemental guns since they're steal-only from what I remember. There is the stone gun that can show up in a random battle, but you'd have to pull off an invite to use it, and even then you might not be able to as the carrier I think starts stoned.

[Triaxx]

Actually, you can get the guns because you can recruit the chemists from rescuing Reis.

[Hunter Noventa]

Actually, you can get the guns because you can recruit the chemists from rescuing Reis.

Ah right! I knew there was another source of them, it's been a long time since I played the game. I love that I forget about those guys, but remember the one Stone Gun.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, it's that kind of game. I know SCC rules allow you to take non primary classes in provided it's only those. Not sure how it's feel about taking a Chemist with Talk Skill in to invite a De-stoned Gun user.

[hustlertwo]

Yeah, I had mentioned earlier in the thread about the elemental gun from the Reis subquest. However, I just realized I have no idea if lowered Faith will impact it or not, as I never had that much of a Faith dump in a play through before. But either way, I do get that lovely Ras Algethi from Balthier. So at least one person can be gunning in style.

Concentrate is not bad, but since I also have access to Attack Boost I do not know if it will be worth the trade most of the time. Maybe for the Bard's harp, since I think it is not tied to PA if memory serves.

[Triaxx]

Musical Instrument damage = [(PA + MA) / 2] * WP

So Harps would benefit from Attack Boost, but probably more from Concentrate.


MAGICAL GUNS | range: minimum 3, maximum 8 (line of sight)
================================================== =============================
An ATTACK with a magical gun is the only time the ATTACK command is magical.
It's a MOD 5 magical attack (see section 3.2 for details) -- basically, a
BLACK MAGIC spell with the WP of the magical gun substituted for MA:

damage = [(CFa * TFa * Q * WP) / 10000]

60% of the time, the magical gun will deliver a level 1 spell (Q = 14), 30% of
the time, it will deliver a level 2 spell (Q = 18), and 10% of the time, it wil
deliver a level 3 spell (Q = 24). Magical guns cannot score conventional
critical hits.

ATTACKs with magical guns are not subject to the modifiers found in this
section; instead, they are subject to those for MOD 5 attacks, where MA0 = WP.
Like those with physical guns, magical gun ATTACKs ignore evasion. They are
subject to Counter Magic, Counter Flood, Blade Grasp, and Hamedo, but do not
trigger other Countergrasp reactions.

Probably better off with standard bullet guns in that case.

[druid91]

One thing I always thought could be interesting would be playing the game as a group.

Set Ramza to autobattle. And then split the 'generic' characters between the players present.

[Triaxx]

It is actually pretty fun. I did it with just one friend, so I took two and she took the other two. Worked out pretty well.

[danzibr]

One thing I always thought could be interesting would be playing the game as a group.

Set Ramza to autobattle. And then split the 'generic' characters between the players present.
Ahhh that sounds really cool. Reminds me of FFVI, can have 2 (or more?) players, let someone control some peeps in combat.

It is actually pretty fun. I did it with just one friend, so I took two and she took the other two. Worked out pretty well.
Neat.

[KillingAScarab]

One thing I always thought could be interesting would be playing the game as a group.

Set Ramza to autobattle. And then split the 'generic' characters between the players present.


It is actually pretty fun. I did it with just one friend, so I took two and she took the other two. Worked out pretty well.


Ahhh that sounds really cool. Reminds me of FFVI, can have 2 (or more?) players, let someone control some peeps in combat.The Super Famicom/Super NES releases of the main series all had multiplayer (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Multiplayer) support it turns out, though the only ports to another system of 4 5 and 6 which kept it were Final Fantasy Anthology and Final Fantasy Chronicles. FF9 also supported a second player. I was also unaware that the WiiWare version of Final Fantasy IV: The After Years allowed up to 4 players to control the party until I read that article.

[hustlertwo]

Yeah, I remember playing FF6 multiplayer a couple times, because I am old. I had pondered something like that with FFT with a roommate back in the day, but it just seemed too clunky. And then War of the Lions came out and made it all somewhat less meaningful since it now had multiplayer of a sort.

Just beat Cuchulainn or whatever his name is (he'll always be Queklain to me I suppose), and started chapter 3 (where inviting those Mythril Gun-toting Chemists will be of utmost importance, as both my Mediator and my Bard have been packing Romanda Guns with great success, especially with the former having Attack Boost on). The team has done well, though a couple early random battles led to wipes (except in a couple cases where the Mediator hit a low-chance Invite to save everyone's bacon, one of which also scored a Mythril Bow, Headband and Jujitsu Gi from an enemy Archer way back towards the beginning of chapter 2, because Bard-getting had jacked our levels a bit). The Bard has been better than expected as a healer/random status effect giver, though the lack of reviving still stings at times. Also, the Bard gets way overleveled compared to the others with all his dancing. Ramza using armor worked out great with that relatively advanced stuff you get from Agrias and Gafgarion in chapter 2, made him a real tank as Squire. Archer having that Mythril Bow made him useful, and in the end there isn't really a weak link in the chain. Even the Mediator, between Attack Boosted gunnery and a couple times where Mimic Darlavon put multiple enemies to sleep in one use, is not a liability despite low HP and stats. My only concern going forward is taking on Velius and other bigger HP total bosses, since this might be a solid team but it lacks any true heavy hitters like a Monk or Ninja. But I guess there's always randomly getting Reraise from the Bard...

[Triaxx]

The trick to those single enemy boss fights is to boost your speed so you get multiple turns of attacking. Heavy hitting isn't as necessary if you can smack him several times for each time he can hit you. I presume Ramza has Move +3 for the fight v Weigraf?

[Hunter Noventa]

I have vague memories of a gameshark code unlocking some kind of multiplayer battle debug mode for FFT. I never used it, I just remember hearing about it.

[hustlertwo]

Welp, Riovanes just came and went, and I was surprised. I did not expect a repeat of the all-nighter needed to clear it in the Knight SCC play through from years ago, but I certainly thought it would take more than one try. Heck, I forgot to even change Ramza's equipment for his big one on one. Wiegraf took him to critically low HP, but two strokes from the Icebrand you get from that lame FFTA2 character, Luso, finished him off. I went for suicide tactics against Velius, having my bard use his gun while he charged up big summons instead of singing. Ramza and the Bard went down and the Mediator (who did like 150 damage a shot between his weakness from charging, her Attack Boost on the gun, and good Zodiac compatibility) would have before her next turn from Titan, but the bullets and powerful sword hits from Geo and Ramza had weakened him so that the Archer finished him off. No issue with the rooftop either; half the team was Stopped before anyone even had a turn, but Ramza hit a sword blow on Elmdore and the Geo then brought him to his knees with Wind Blast.

[hustlertwo]

Playthrough is done, and I enjoyed it. Several fights in chapter 4 gave difficulty (even the normally simple fight at Bethla Garrison when trying to open the sluice, where the elevation and numbers caused some problems, doubly so since I also needed to invite the Artemis Bow-wielding archer for my own guy to have it) especially Marquis Elmdor at Limberry and Ser Aliste in the optional Lionel quest, because my team was EXTREMELY weak against an opponent with Blade Grasp, since it blocks swords, bows and guns. Finally got through Elmdor thanks to him Vampirizing most of the team, where Aliste was knocking out all his support staff and slowly Geomancing him to death. A couple of the final fights were tough as well; not the final bosses, but right before them with the Barich fight against the various breeds of Hydra was a challenge. After a couple deaths, got lucky with a Geomanced petrification of the chemist, so no one was left to revive or de-petrify the others as they were slowly worn down.

Where it was a team effort in the first three chapters, in 4 it quickly became the Ramza and Mediator Power Hour. Ramza with the powerful and speedy hits from Orlandeau's Excalibur, and the Mediator because Ras Algethi combined with Attack Boost was massively powerful.

[Triaxx]

Sounds like you had fun. Good job.

[T.G. Oskar]

So: after a grating experience with a Let's Play, where I saw odd strategies going through, my tactical mind just couldn't handle it anymore. Decided to do a run of Journey of the Five, because I'm pretty sure I can work something better.

Case in point - the second battle at Lionel, where you defeat the patrol. I saw a horrible strategy attempting to face them head-on, and the cursing was just irritating. Figured that the best strategy wasn't to face them head-on, but to use the Lionel Castle gate as a chokepoint, bringing them two-by-two. Cloud and Dante, having ranged attacks, could deal with them at a distance, while Ramza and Link attacked them sideways. Snake, as a Chemist (needed one that could pull off throwing items when needed, anyways), mostly hid, healed, took a smoke break every now and then, and chased the last guy, but his ability to turn Invisible allowed me to play the computer - the AI knows where your invisible allies are, knowing where not to move and where not to attack, so I used him as a mobile obstacle. All in all, the first try I had to reset, but the second was just peachy. Used all the Potions, but didn't use a single Phoenix Down, and what few Ethers I consumed were worthwhile (I recovered more than what I used, so it was a net win).

Planning to have Ramza as a Knight, Link as a Ranger going into Bard (most likely), Snake as a Monk (might not like the Let's-Player game style, but Snake pulls being a Monk pretty well), and have two generic females as casters (one White, one Black). Undecided on Cloud (not my favorite character) or Dante (though he pulls off being a Rogue pretty well, IMO).

[Triaxx]

What LP were you watching?

[danzibr]

Cloud, Snake, Ramza, Dante, Link, sounds like that one mod.

[JeenLeen]

A plot question: why did Orlandu (T. G. Cid) join the main character, and what was the shadowy plot about faking his death?

[Triaxx]

Cid joined because he'd been declared a traitor. The false death, is because they didn't want people believing he was alive.

[Eladrinblade]

Haven't read through the thread yet, but I wanted to say that I tried a run where I only used one class on each person, so that I'd actually buy and use most of the class features. So, Ramza was a knight, also had a male archer, and female black and white mages. This was actually pretty fun...


...until weigraf. Had to stop there, obviously.

[Triaxx]

He's not so bad. Break his sword and he's kind of a wimp. At least that's always been my experience. Outside of Bard Ramza trying to not get ventilated.

[Gnoman]

IIRC, any equipment that absorbs lightning will nullify him, because the game thinks Lightning Stab is lightning elemental even though it isn't.

[Hunter Noventa]

IIRC, any equipment that absorbs lightning will nullify him, because the game thinks Lightning Stab is lightning elemental even though it isn't.

It won't quite nullify him, he also has Monk skills and will try Wave Fist and Earth Slash if I recall correctly, it has been a while though. Those can be blocked with a shield, however. Or at least Wave Fist can. I can't remember if you can have a way to absorb Earth by then or not.

[JeenLeen]

Cid joined because he'd been declared a traitor. The false death, is because they didn't want people believing he was alive.

Do you recall why they had him declared a traitor?
I only halfway followed the deeper politics behind the war and Delita's machinations. Was Cid gotten rid of just because he was a good general who would get in the way (make his team win, or fight against corruption in his team), or was there a deeper reason?

I think I recall that he was sent to join Ramza because it was thought Ramza was doing something good and could the help, so the noble knight should be doing something worthwhile. So it makes sense he wasn't just killed.

[Hunter Noventa]

Do you recall why they had him declared a traitor?
I only halfway followed the deeper politics behind the war and Delita's machinations. Was Cid gotten rid of just because he was a good general who would get in the way (make his team win, or fight against corruption in his team), or was there a deeper reason?

I think I recall that he was sent to join Ramza because it was thought Ramza was doing something good and could the help, so the noble knight should be doing something worthwhile. So it makes sense he wasn't just killed.

Goltana basically declared him a traitor for not wanting to go to war, Delita, after ensuring the death of Goltana, faked Cid's death so that he could help Ramza uncover the second layer of truth to the church's plot. The first layer was that the church was goading the war on so they could step in to mediate peace and seize power, but they in turn were being manipulated by the Shrine Knights who had joined with Lucavi. Delita knew Ramza would do the right thing and uncover both plots, and that Cid, having been a contemporary of Balbanes, would do the same.

It's so complicated but I love it.

[T.G. Oskar]

What LP were you watching?

FFT - Journey of the 5, by DaTruthDT.

It showed that the mod has very interesting ideas, but I cringed at some of the decisions. He wastes a lot of Phoenix Downs with somewhat poor decisions, thus forcing him to buy more, which ends up crippling him in terms of what he can get. Sure - Potions are a must, since you're forced to be with no other healer than a Chemist, and only after you get your first classes (Knight, Ranger, Priest, Wizard) you get some healing (Knight's Sacrifice, Priest using White Magic). Ramza learns a healing spell, but it takes like 500 AP to master; the advantage is that it's wide AoE (3 squares width), but by the time you learn it, you get better options. He also gives Item to everyone, even the guests, which will waste them, instead of being a bit smarter and give them other stuff - Agrias with White Magic is a given, particularly if you learn how to run a MP battery around (incredibly easy between the Knight's Invigorate, Ramza's Encourage, and Link's "Saria's Song", which grant enough MP for everyone at somewhat negligible cost).

Of course, hindsight is a given, but it seemed like playing blindly. Plus, when things don't go his way (i.e. having Snake quicken someone with his no MP ability "Move"), he curses a lot. Which ends up on a recursive curse loop when you figure out he's cursing because he made a bad move, and you start cursing the right way to do it. That pretty much motivated me to play the mod rather than anything else.

Speaking of which - did the first forced battle with monsters (special cameo by Babus, aka the Runemaster servant of Prince Mewt in FFT:A), and it was somewhat difficult until I figured the right strategy - the Chocobo is deliberately thrown first at you to tank (it'll have Reraise), the Bombs should be taken from afar, and the Lamia will never use a physical attack, so correct positioning can actually work on your favor (the Dischord song ability they use hits both allies and enemies). The idea is to prevent the Lamia from being hasted and granted Reraise, or else she'll start going willy-nilly with the party.

Link can be a Ranger now (except no ranged weapon, which sucks), Cloud can also shift between Knight or Ranger, and the rest are still unable to access further classes, so I need at least one random battle to set them up to point (and maybe snatch a few Crystals for free skills!) Not only that, also to train the generic ladies to become casters.

[hustlertwo]

Goltana basically declared him a traitor for not wanting to go to war, Delita, after ensuring the death of Goltana, faked Cid's death so that he could help Ramza uncover the second layer of truth to the church's plot. The first layer was that the church was goading the war on so they could step in to mediate peace and seize power, but they in turn were being manipulated by the Shrine Knights who had joined with Lucavi. Delita knew Ramza would do the right thing and uncover both plots, and that Cid, having been a contemporary of Balbanes, would do the same.

It's so complicated but I love it.

Yeah, though I think the real reason is Delita knew that, since the 'jailers' were fool enough to leave Cid his sword, any attempt Delita made at killing the old man would have had him turned into a Commoner Kabob.

Funny how his death would have been considered necessary to weaken Goltana's side when he was already imprisoned and thus not leading anyone. Or perhaps not everyone knew Cid had fallen out of favor?

[Hunter Noventa]

Yeah, though I think the real reason is Delita knew that, since the 'jailers' were fool enough to leave Cid his sword, any attempt Delita made at killing the old man would have had him turned into a Commoner Kabob.

Funny how his death would have been considered necessary to weaken Goltana's side when he was already imprisoned and thus not leading anyone. Or perhaps not everyone knew Cid had fallen out of favor?

Well someone likely knew that he had one of the Zodiac Stones. If he were presumed 'dead' they wouldn't have a need to come looking for it right away, as presumably it was in Delita's hands, and he was presumably on the side of the Church, though not the Lucavi. But it's not like the Church new the Shrine Knights were suborned by the Lucavi until they killed Funeral.

[Calemyr]

I hope this isn't necromancy yet, but I didn't want to make a new thread for such a frivolous question:

I'm playing FFT on my phone. Good way to kill dead time, I find. I'm currently just starting the second half of chapter 2, with Mustadio waiting expectantly for a spot in my party (which is filled with Chocobo to ensure I can place things where I wish). But now I'm at an impasse. There are three main parties I am tempted to run, but I can't decide: (Ramza is working towards Squire/Dark Knight in any case)

Heretic Heroes: Agrias, Mustadio, Malak, and Rapha (Malak and Rapha probably using generic classes since their unique classes are pretty weak). These are the main characters with actual, genuine investment in the main story.

Knights of the Round: Agrias, Cid, Meliadoul, and Beowulf. Magic knights of all stripes.

Dissidia Tactics: Agrias, Luso, Cloud, Balthier. Champions from different games. Also includes generics representing Kain, Gilgamesh, and Vivi to fill the gaps before our heroes arrive.

Note that I don't care about "gamebreaker" status, here. I like Dark Knights, Cid, Shirahadori (Blade Catch), Level Drain, and any other cheese I can get. For me, a large part of the fun of the game is twisting its mechanics into a pretzel.

I just can't decide between which team build I want to play through it with this time. Anyone have an opinion? (I've won the game more than once, I'm just playing it because it's a fun game.)

[Triaxx]

Agrias, Cid, Beowulf and Reis (or however it's spelled now.) Make for a surprisingly awesome and competent team. Cid and Agrias can knock their armor off, and then Beowulf and Reis finish them off.

[Cozzer]

I'm replaying the game on my Android tablet too, just finished Chapter 2. For now Ramza (mainly Squire, with dips in other jobs), Agrias (Knight/Holy Knight) and Mustadio (Gunner/Chemist, with dips in Archer) are my regulars, with two generic mages (from now on I'm going to specialize one in Black/Time, the other in White/Summoning) to complete the team. It's probably not an optimal team, not even close, but who cares. :P

The plot of this game is better than I remembered, now that I can actually understand it thank to the new translation. I love Delita as the "other protagonist" of the story. I like these setups where you have basically two main characters, with one being in the spotlight and another in the shadows.

[Calemyr]

Agrias, Cid, Beowulf and Reis (or however it's spelled now.) Make for a surprisingly awesome and competent team. Cid and Agrias can knock their armor off, and then Beowulf and Reis finish them off.

Reis is definitely scary enough to deserve a slot, no question, and is a regular for me. She just didn't work with any of the three themes I was working with. Well, Beo and Reis could fit in the Heretic Heroes team as well, but one of the attractions I had for that team was that it's completed at the end of the third chapter rather than the latter half of the last chapter.

I'm not trying to build an "optimal" team, but a thematic team. With proper application of cheese, the game can be outright dominated by generics.


I'm replaying the game on my Android tablet too, just finished Chapter 2. For now Ramza (mainly Squire, with dips in other jobs), Agrias (Knight/Holy Knight) and Mustadio (Gunner/Chemist, with dips in Archer) are my regulars, with two generic mages (from now on I'm going to specialize one in Black/Time, the other in White/Summoning) to complete the team. It's probably not an optimal team, not even close, but who cares. :P

The plot of this game is better than I remembered, now that I can actually understand it thank to the new translation. I love Delita as the "other protagonist" of the story. I like these setups where you have basically two main characters, with one being in the spotlight and another in the shadows.

Yeah, the game is one of the best, plot wise. The murder of one innocent girl sends two best friends spiraling into lives of rebellion - one determined to never leave an innocent to suffer for "noble" agendas again, regardless of personal cost, and the other willing to sacrifice anything and everything to claim the power he lacked at the time. A hero so idealistic that, even when he knows the world punishes the good, he doesn't relent for an instant, and a hero that will kill, cheat, and manipulate to claw his way to the top and steer a maddened kingdom towards sanity.

A great game made even better in the remake and then perfected on tablets and phones - all of the improvements with none of the slowdown.

[Triaxx]

There's always, if you haven't dumped them, the starter pack. Agrias and the three generics from the opening. Soldiers trying desperately to fix what went wrong with their mission. From there it's a matter of a 'Royal mission' to stop the Lucavi. Which is a bit of RPing I admit.

[hustlertwo]

Of the teams presented, my favorite is the Knights. All sword-wielding knights, yet what a variety of combat options! Cloud kinda fits here too; not a knight per se, but still uses sword skills like the others. And could be argued to be similar to a knight in his own world.

Skip the Dissidia squad. The best thing to do with Luso is strip him of equipment and ditch his butt. FFT:A is an abomination of a series that deprived us of a true sequel. Blech.

[Calemyr]

Of the teams presented, my favorite is the Knights. All sword-wielding knights, yet what a variety of combat options! Cloud kinda fits here too; not a knight per se, but still uses sword skills like the others. And could be argued to be similar to a knight in his own world.

Skip the Dissidia squad. The best thing to do with Luso is strip him of equipment and ditch his butt. FFT:A is an abomination of a series that deprived us of a true sequel. Blech.

That's... a really good point, actually. I may ditch Cid for Cloud for that team. As incredibly powerful as he is, I always see Cid as basically the Cartman of Final Fantasy Tactics. "I've got the best stats in the game, I've got the best sword in the game, and I... I've got everyone's unique skills, too! Everyone's. Except Malak's and Rapha's, though. They suck." The only downside is that Cloud, like Beowulf, Reis, and Meliadoul, he comes into play so late in the game that there's not much left to do once you have him.

Luso is FFT:A2, which is alright. Luso in particular was a pretty interesting character in that game, since he's pretty much gung-ho from the word go, unlike Ramza and Marche. I actually like FFT:A a good bit, because it has the most believable villain protagonist I've ever seen. Marche is willing to rip the seams of the world he's in apart in order to go home, without much regard for the damage he's doing to friends as well as enemies. Granted, he's the voice of maturity in a playground of children who'd rather be happy in their dreams than grow up in the real world, but his behavior would cast him as the big bad of any other Final Fantasy game.

I don't think we'd have gotten a "proper" sequel to FFT. Ramza's story ended where it should have, with him free at last, and Delita's ended where it should have, with him having everything he wanted and nothing he needed. The other FFT games, Vagrant Story, and Final Fantasy XII are also Ivalice games, so they advance that story in their own ways as well.

[Cozzer]

I tried the two FFT:A games, but they bored me after a very short while. Especially the laws system. Ugh, I can't imagine how somebody thought that was a good idea.

I think an actual sequel to FFT would make no sense, but I'd really love a "spiritual successor" with a similar tone. The Advance games kept the gameplay, more or less, but they're all "let's have adventure!" games, which is almost the opposite of the feeling the first Tactics game has.

[Gnoman]

It would be fairly easy to have a proper sequel to FFT. The Lion War was loosely based on the War of the Roses, down to the victor cementing his reign by marrying a rival claimant. Using Delita's line as an analogue of the House of Tudor, it would be fairly easy to build a story based upon his descendant breaking with the Glabados Church and facing invasion from nations that didn't - a direct analogue of the conflicts between England and Spain in the age of Elizabeth. Such a war, particularly if it came with the discovery of a forgotten continent, would also provide for the Zodiac stones to be rediscovered and allowing the Lucavi to rise again.

[Hunter Noventa]

I tried the two FFT:A games, but they bored me after a very short while. Especially the laws system. Ugh, I can't imagine how somebody thought that was a good idea.

I think an actual sequel to FFT would make no sense, but I'd really love a "spiritual successor" with a similar tone. The Advance games kept the gameplay, more or less, but they're all "let's have adventure!" games, which is almost the opposite of the feeling the first Tactics game has.

Agreed, the law system was the worst idea. It was marginally better in A2 where you couldn't get an instant game over because of a law outside your control at least.

They also didn't keep enough of the gameplay. I really really like the CTB system in Tactics, having a system where some actions happen right away, but others take time to finish was amazing, but everything resolves instantly in A and A2.

I also absolutely hated the whole 'learning abilities from equipment' thing. You either game the system to get gear with useful abilities early, or you were hindered for significant portions of the game.

Man if I didn't have so many other games demanding my time I'd probably go play through FFT again.

[Seerow]

1) Do the other Ivalice games actually progress the story at all, or did Ivalice just become a generic name for Final Fantasy's world somewhere along the line? I never really saw anything more than superficial connections

2) FFT:A was pretty sad, not just story wise, but also mechanically. The whole mechanic of gaining abilities from items killed what was the most fun part of FFT for me; now instead of being able to play through and customize characters how I want, I am constantly gated by which items are available, and many of the items are only obtainable through weird roundabout sidequests (I don't remember much more about it than that, but I remember being very irate at finding out several items with key abilities required a large degree of RNG to obtain).

Besides that the Law system was pretty meh as well. I understand they meant well by it, the idea being that the laws would force changing up gameplay, so you couldn't just spam the same tactic in every fight. In practice it never really changed that much, and felt more like a contrived annoyance than something that added real depth to the game.

[Gnoman]

1) Do the other Ivalice games actually progress the story at all, or did Ivalice just become a generic name for Final Fantasy's world somewhere along the line? I never really saw anything more than superficial connections

Ivalice is the shared world of a small subset of games - Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy XII, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, and Final Fantasy Tactics A2. Of those, XII is a distant prequel, I have no idea how much connection Vagrant Story has (because I can't play it), Advance was set in a dream-world mirror rather than Ivalice proper, and A2 takes place in the real Ivalice not long after XII.

[Hunter Noventa]

2) FFT:A was pretty sad, not just story wise, but also mechanically. The whole mechanic of gaining abilities from items killed what was the most fun part of FFT for me; now instead of being able to play through and customize characters how I want, I am constantly gated by which items are available, and many of the items are only obtainable through weird roundabout sidequests (I don't remember much more about it than that, but I remember being very irate at finding out several items with key abilities required a large degree of RNG to obtain).

Oh it wasn't even just the sidequests, remember putting down parts of the map as the world expanded? The order and location in which you did so determined some of the items you could get. Good luck figuring any of that out without a guide.

[druid91]

On the one hand, I actually really did like the story and even the gameplay of FFT:A. It has a very different feel to FFT.

FFT is a Gritty Low Magic game with tinges of cosmic horror. (Though admittedly, I remember most of the plot through the lens of the old playstation version and all the translation problems it had.) About a young idealistic noble trying to do the right thing in a country that's ruled by scheming and backstabbing, even as eldritch abominations are emerging to destroy the world.

FFT:A is a High Magic, Shonen-esque game about a Kid who is destroying the world to try and return home to the 'real' world.

But yes, laws could be frustrating at times, at least until you get Law Cards.

Nothing like fielding an All-Human party and then dropping a "Can't Damage Humans" Law Card.

[Triaxx]

I wasn't a fan of FFTA. Just wasn't as interesting as the original. No bad, just not as good.

[Greg_S]

Oh it wasn't even just the sidequests, remember putting down parts of the map as the world expanded? The order and location in which you did so determined some of the items you could get. Good luck figuring any of that out without a guide.

And once you put the places down, enjoy them constantly coming under attack, so that you need to run back and forth to fight the same battles over and over again. FFTA2 fixed that by ending the clan wars, at least, but replaced them with the ridiculously breakable auction system (once you open the coin shop and begin outspending everyone else).

I liked the idea behind having multiple races in the advance games, but in practice, it gated so many interesting build possibilities. Instead of Tactics' 19 jobs, you get far fewer to work with depending on your race. Are you a Bangaa? There's not a lot of options for you, sadly. Nu Mou? You're some flavor of mage (or morpher in FFTA). Moogle? You're a juggler, or a worse version of something else.

[tonberrian]

Honestly the Bangaa didn't get hosed that bad on jobs - compared to the Seeq and Gria, that is. If you increased the number of jobs for Bangaa, Seeq, and Gria they'd be much more distinct from each other. Still, I liked the races. Laws I learned how to deal with (and stocked up on Almighty Anti-laws just in case), but there was a reason I fought the things i could in Jagds.

[druid91]

So, playing FFT on my phone....

The Dark Knight Job is a pain to get. I've mastered Black Magic, Knight Skills, and I've started unlocking the other classes, but even using the Focus + JP boost it's crazy hard.

Though one side effect, Ramza as a Monk is now terrifying. Because I'm only in the second act and his fists are one-shotting anything they come into contact with.

[Triaxx]

Don't forget JP Spill. So everyone leveling together in the same class will cause them to level faster because JP Spills from one character to another. It's slow, but adds up if everyone is the same class. (Unless I'm confusing this with another mechanic.)

[druid91]

Don't forget JP Spill. So everyone leveling together in the same class will cause them to level faster because JP Spills from one character to another. It's slow, but adds up if everyone is the same class. (Unless I'm confusing this with another mechanic.)

Abusing that with gleeful abandon.

Also, does anyone else feel really bad about killing Gaf Gafgarion? I mean dude seems like more of a genuine cynic than a bad guy, and he's just trying to talk some sense into you most of the time. Yeah, he's attacking you, but you're literally leading a renegade army at that point.

[Triaxx]

Not really, he did kind of start it.

[druid91]

If you worked in nefarious deeds and your friend/coworker snapped and tried to rescue rather than kidnap the princess wouldn't you try to stop him? The game does generally portray Ramza as needlessly idealistic.

[Gnoman]

Would you feel any better about it if somebody had paid you to do it? Gafgarion turns against you because you refused to butcher a defenseless teenage girl for no other reason that his employer wanted it done. He was nothing more than an amoral mercenary, and died like one.

[Cozzer]

He's the typical bully (I used a stronger word, but forum filter) who justifies being a bully by telling you (and himself, I imagine) that "he's just being reasonable" and that "either you become a bully or you become the victim of one" and things like these. Plenty of these wastes of space in the real world, too. :P

Ramza was portrayed as too idealistic, but that's because he thought he could keep associating with a villain like Gafgarion without, sooner or later, becoming a villain himself.

That said, I'm doing the third chapter. Going on with the story would trigger the series of fights that includes the Wiegraf solo battle, so I'm trying to buff my characters a bit by traveling in circles while my low-level mooks do errands. I need a way to stop those stupid Chocobos from becoming a swarm that clutters my party screen every two battles. :/

[druid91]

So. I'm in essence at war with the RNG now. An Arms race without limit. Even having beaten the main story, and unlocking the secret items in the poachers store, the RNG enemies are still entertaining/difficult to fight so I'm doing the various side quests.

My team is...

Ramza - A Dark Knight. I've fully mastered that skill tree, as a secondary skill he has Monk. To enable him to use Chakra and Purification to heal and purge status effects. Though Sanguine Sword is working better for healing at this point. First Strike as his reaction ability, and Vehemence as his support. For movement, I vary between teleport and Move +2. DEFINITELY the power house of the party at level 83.

Orlandeu - Sword Saint. Not nearly as technically developed as Ramza, but Orlandeu is insanely powerful just as he was. Particular with the permanent Haste of Excalibur. At some point I intend to level him up as a monk to gain First Strike/Chakra and Purification. Possibly Revive. Probably the second most powerful character in the party at level 78.

Construct 8 - I pulled in Construct 8 to Replace Agrias in the lineup. Since Orlandeu covers everything she covers and more. And she was waaaay under leveled thanks to being grabbed before my Dark Knight grinding spree. Pretty much what you see is what you get. Grumpy Robot powerhouse with lasers for ranged damage. Which the party lacked before. Level 82

Meliadul - If I'm spelling her name correctly. Also largely obsolesced by Orlandeu, I've been considering replacing her with Beowulf. Now that I have him. But in the mean time, she serves as a solid fighter. And helps to disable ranged attackers by shattering their weapons. Level 75.

And Depending on the Mission. Either Rolfe or Eva.

Eva - An Arithmetician. The best spellcaster I have. But due to the difficulties grinding with the RNG characters being so deadly, she has limited targeting options. Sometimes she's insanely effective. Other times she's completely useless. Depending largely on luck and circumstance. One of the starting 'generic' soldiers you begin the game with. Level 50.

And Rolfe - A White Mage. The SECOND best spellcaster I have. Set up with White magic as his primary skill and Black magic as his secondary, the teleport movement, and at level 47 the lowest level character I've got. But he's still good enough at dropping in to raise people who get dropped.


Rolfe, Eva, and Ramza have the most filled out skill lists. Construct 8 doesn't HAVE skill lists, and Meliadul and Orlandeu are new enough aquisitions that I haven't been able to put much focus into leveling them up and aquiring the reaction and side skills I'd want for them.

[Seerow]

If you're using a calculator, the cheesy method to make the game super easy is get your speed to be either 5 or 10 through items or other manipulation. Now no matter what if you choose CT5 as your targetting method, you will hit every unit on the board. Pick an element and give all of your units an item to resist it (most commonly it's used with Holy, and your units all wear Chameleon robes to turn that damage to healing), and just cackle with glee as all fights become a cakewalk.

It's entertaining for a battle or two before you swear off using calculator ever again.

[druid91]

If you're using a calculator, the cheesy method to make the game super easy is get your speed to be either 5 or 10 through items or other manipulation. Now no matter what if you choose CT5 as your targetting method, you will hit every unit on the board. Pick an element and give all of your units an item to resist it (most commonly it's used with Holy, and your units all wear Chameleon robes to turn that damage to healing), and just cackle with glee as all fights become a cakewalk.

It's entertaining for a battle or two before you swear off using calculator ever again.

I do that, but being a Calculator has SERIOUSLY put a dent in Eva's direct damage. So mostly I've been throwing Debuffs that my side is immune to. Sometimes I'll throw out Arise if my side has people who get knocked down by something.

Which is especially fun against undead heavy opponents.

But yeah. While Eva is seriously handy, she's also rarely a board wiper.

[Triaxx]

Once you have CT5, you either flip her into a Black Mage for power, or into a Knight with Excalibur so she can get off two or three attacks to everyone else's one.

On the other hand, if you can reliably target only enemies, you can use Flare from the Black Mage which is actually stronger than Holy, but can't be absorbed.

[Anteros]

For the people in this thread who were looking for a sequel to FFT, if you can get your hands on a copy of Tactics Ogre it's the game FFT was based on. It's basically FFT except with actual difficulty.

[Alent]

@Druid91:
Definitely drop Meliadoul for Beowulf. There's not many ways to describe the absurd delight of turning entire swaths of your opposition to stone with a near 100% success rate AoE, or just straight up turning them into chickens for fun and laughs. :smallbiggrin: Dropping his Drain spell on Lucavi is also pretty gratifying.


For the people in this thread who were looking for a sequel to FFT, if you can get your hands on a copy of Tactics Ogre it's the game FFT was based on. It's basically FFT except with actual difficulty.

If you've got a PSP, Vita, or PS TV: The PSP port is available on PSN at a reasonable price these days. It's the best version- they really expanded the skill system to include some of the genre's newer concepts like Zone of Control effects and tweaked the battles a little to take advantage of them. (EG: The Knight's Rampart Aura)

[hustlertwo]

Well, TO is more FFT with a lot of unnecessary grinding and about 1/10th of the gameplay variety. Like the vast majority of SRPGs, FFT's spiritual grandpappy offers little true combat variety between classes and limited customization. It took me years to beat the game on PS1; not because of difficulty, but because I made the fool decision to start that Hell Gate optional 100 floor dungeon and was too far in to turn back, yet too bored to play more than a few floors at a stretch before turning back to more engaging games. Like FFT.

The PSP port was an odd creature, fixing some flaws while creating others. To some extent it was a whole new game, with the addition of features like the battle rewind. Like the original, there is in to be had but it is still a much more vanilla experience than Ramza and the gang offer. The only things I liked over FFT was the option to make decisions that impact the story and thus have multiple endings, and the larger squad size allowing for some fun larger-scale battles (would have been neat if at certain times FFT had that, but not necessarily all game since it does make it a lot longer).

[Hunter Noventa]

Once you have CT5, you either flip her into a Black Mage for power, or into a Knight with Excalibur so she can get off two or three attacks to everyone else's one.

On the other hand, if you can reliably target only enemies, you can use Flare from the Black Mage which is actually stronger than Holy, but can't be absorbed.

Yeah, once you master Calculator you need to get out of that class ASAP. You might even want to level DOWN while a Calculator to get levels with better growth like Black mage or Summoner.

I think I actually shied away from using a Calculator the last couple times I played. It simply makes the game, well, too easy and tedious all at once, as I try to do the math for maximum effect.

[Anteros]

Well, TO is more FFT with a lot of unnecessary grinding and about 1/10th of the gameplay variety. Like the vast majority of SRPGs, FFT's spiritual grandpappy offers little true combat variety between classes and limited customization. It took me years to beat the game on PS1; not because of difficulty, but because I made the fool decision to start that Hell Gate optional 100 floor dungeon and was too far in to turn back, yet too bored to play more than a few floors at a stretch before turning back to more engaging games. Like FFT.

The PSP port was an odd creature, fixing some flaws while creating others. To some extent it was a whole new game, with the addition of features like the battle rewind. Like the original, there is in to be had but it is still a much more vanilla experience than Ramza and the gang offer. The only things I liked over FFT was the option to make decisions that impact the story and thus have multiple endings, and the larger squad size allowing for some fun larger-scale battles (would have been neat if at certain times FFT had that, but not necessarily all game since it does make it a lot longer).

I have to disagree. I never felt like I had to grind in TO. At least not in the original. (Ok, you probably have to grind if you want the secret ending...but that's not even the good ending). The PSP port made the baffling decision to place new classes you unlock at level one, which meant you had to grind every time you got a new unique character. As far as variety went, there was definitely less variety in individual skills and ways to build a character, but far more in recruitment options and the battles themselves. You can't just faceroll your way through the game clubbing things with god-tier units like you can in FFT.

[danzibr]

Tactics Ogre was originally on the SNES right? Is that the game which begins with using cards or something to build your hero? I didn't even make it through the first battle, I'm pretty sure. I was super turned off at the idea of losing honor or experience or something by killing weaker bad guys.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, there were two TO games, one on the SNES and one on the Gameboy... Advanced I think? Better than the first in my opinion.

[Alent]

Tactics Ogre was originally on the SNES right? Is that the game which begins with using cards or something to build your hero? I didn't even make it through the first battle, I'm pretty sure. I was super turned off at the idea of losing honor or experience or something by killing weaker bad guys.

That's Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre is OB's sequel. Once you have a grasp of the system in OB, it's pretty easy to never ever lose CF/Ali/Cha unless you want to. (Actually, it doesn't really matter all that much as long as you spread out your kills or have a designated Karma sink like a Lich or Blackguard unit.)

Ogre Battle uses the following rubics to score you: Chaos Frame represents your army's overall bent towards law/chaos. If you conquer villages with un-like conquerors, your CF goes down. If you tarry for a long time to make money, your CF goes down. If you clear battles quickly, your CF goes up. If you make "Wise decisions" your CF goes up. If you capture lawful villages with lawful units and chaotic villages with chaotic units, your CF goes up. The higher your CF the better, but not always, because some people don't like an army that's excessively lawful until after they're in it.

At the individual unit level, units had Alignment and Charisma, which would react according to the level, ali, and cha of the unit they fought. Charisma would go down if you substantially outleveled them, but it'd go up if you were prettier than they were, so once you got above a certain Charisma it pretty much couldn't drop unless you were just curbstomping people with a 10+ level advantage. Similarly, Alignment dropped when you killed units more lawful than you and raised when you killed units less lawful than you, and undead have a set ali of 0, so you can go exorcise undead in random battles to your heart's content and again, once you get above a certain ali, it will not drop... but this is also a trap, because of what I mentioned about chaotic villages. As you reach the end of the game, you'll encounter villages that are chaotic in large amounts and you'll basically need a few designated Lich/blackguard units to keep them happy.

Where Tactics Ogre didn't really use CF all that much, CF took a back seat to Denim's decisions to be lawful/chaotic/neutral at key points in the story. There were 4 clans, and you had a CF with each of them, but I don't recall that it mattered in the SNES version, but it did hugely in the PSP version since endgame some new characters on the Lawful ending who wouldn't join if you had a bad CF with their clan, and as I recall the best ending requires having a high CF with each clan. (Fairly easy to grind up at endgame, but slow.)

What's interesting is that in OB the Lawful ending is the canon ending, but in TO the Chaotic Neutral ending appears to be the canon ending.

There was also an Ogre Battle Gaiden on Wonderswan Color, which I have not played, and Tactics Ogre Advance, which was a steaming pile of garbage. (It uses forced multiplayer to gate some of the series' necessary staple items. Imagine having to play multiplayer to get half the Genji armor in a final fantasy game.)

[Triaxx]

I still think the improvements in N64's Person of Lordly Caliber are unbeaten.

[Anteros]

Chaos frame only mattered in TO if you wanted the secret ending. Basically you had to go pure chaotic, let a certain main character die, and your chaos frame would determine the ending you got. All of the other endings were purely based on choices you made or which characters lived.

[hustlertwo]

I have to disagree. I never felt like I had to grind in TO. At least not in the original. (Ok, you probably have to grind if you want the secret ending...but that's not even the good ending). The PSP port made the baffling decision to place new classes you unlock at level one, which meant you had to grind every time you got a new unique character. As far as variety went, there was definitely less variety in individual skills and ways to build a character, but far more in recruitment options and the battles themselves. You can't just faceroll your way through the game clubbing things with god-tier units like you can in FFT.

I can only assume you blocked the memories out. Tactics Ogre was the worst for grinding, because unlike most other RPG games, if you fight an enemy just 1 or 2 levels above you it is practically impossible to deal significant damage. Usually had to do a lot of training battles (which was an awesome feature, I must admit; FFT or any other SRPG would be well served to have it) or random fights to keep everyone on the same page. I still shudder at the memory of all that blech time.

[Alent]

I can only assume you blocked the memories out. Tactics Ogre was the worst for grinding, because unlike most other RPG games, if you fight an enemy just 1 or 2 levels above you it is practically impossible to deal significant damage. Usually had to do a lot of training battles (which was an awesome feature, I must admit; FFT or any other SRPG would be well served to have it) or random fights to keep everyone on the same page. I still shudder at the memory of all that blech time.

Training battles were why it wasn't that bad. Get one person +1 level by softening up everybody and do a murder wheel. Kill the now low HP +1 person from behind, level up, that person gets killed, level up, rinse, lather, repeat.

Sirens were great for this once you got the first summon spell. Kaminari the entire red and blue teams at once~

Edit: Come to think of it, Ghosts were great for this too. Crap for defense, but you could get kill EXP for them repeatedly. When leveling my Snapshot swords I used a party of ghosts in an actual battle and pinned in the last enemy with Petrocloud while I level ground in random encounters around Hell Gate.

[hustlertwo]

Everything you described sounds so boring, though. So much bloody grinding.

[LansXero]

Everything you described sounds so boring, though. So much bloody grinding.

Huh, I got through the game just fine with minimal grinding (except at the start, when you need a min. lvl to become anything but "soldier"). 1 level differences are easy to overcome, and reward you with a buttload of xp.

Also, I thought the canon ending was the Lawful one, due to being the one in the manga :o

[Bruno Carvalho]

I don't know if you follow my Final Fantasy RPG (https://www.reddit.com/r/FFRPG/) development, but a Final Fantasy Tactics Worldbook is in the oven, to be released later this year.