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rudy
2016-08-12, 01:12 PM
We all know that the beastmaster is sub-par in many ways. My big problem, in particular, is that it's silly, in the sense that your animal companion is actually less capable of acting independently than a normal member of its species. Certainly this is done for balance reasons, but it still grates.

My proposed solution is to combine three overarching changes:
1. Give the animal companion more freedom to act independently in combat.
2. Make the animal companion's attacks somewhat less powerful.
3. Make the animal companion more survivable.

In lieu of the first change, the second becomes necessary to maintain balance in the archetype. Details are below, but this is primarily accomplished by not adding your proficiency bonus on top of the animal's, and instead having a slower advancing bonus that the animal uses.

Other changes include making the creature smarter as you level, allowing it to act more strategically, and allowing you to have higher CR creatures, or advance the CR of your existing companion.

This is a hard thing to balance due to the action economy of having what is essentially an additional party member, albeit one that is notably weaker. It may be too powerful as is, but that's one of the reasons I'd love to hear any feedback or suggestions.



Ranger Level
CR & Size Limit
Min Int & Cha
AC Bonus
Special


3rd-6th
¼; medium
3
+0
Life Line, Caring Master, Saves, Proficiency Bonus, Aggression


7th-10th
½; medium
5
+1
Beast Trainer, Exceptional Training, Independence


11th-14th
1; large
7
+2
Understanding, Bestial Fury


15th-17th
2; large
7
+3
Share Spells


18th
3; large
7
+4
-


Note: Does not add your proficiency bonus to anything.

Min Int & Cha: If your animal companion has intelligence or charisma less than this, they are increased to the listed values.

AC Bonus: The listed value is added to the animal's natural armor class.

Life Line: Your animal companion can make death saving throws. Additionally, your animal companion has hit points equal to the maximum hp of a creature of its type, plus twice your ranger level.

Caring Master: Your animal companion receives a number of d6 hit dice equal to your ranger level. These do not affect the creature’s hit points, but can be “spent” by the creature to heal during a rest.

Saves: Your animal companion gains proficiency in Strength saving throws, as well as either Dexterity or Constitution saving throws, determined by which score is higher. If both are equal, you may choose. The animal companion will add their default +2 proficiency bonus to those saves.

Aggression: Given no commands, the creature will act to defend itself and you. If you command it to attack, it will continue attacking the same creature until its target is dead, you flee the battle, or it is commanded otherwise. If its target is downed, it will revert to its default behavior of defending itself and you, until given further direction. Unless commanded, the creature will not take the Dash, Disengage, Dodge or Help actions. The creature uses multiattack wherever possible in place of single attacks if it has that ability.

Beast Trainer: Upon reaching level 7 the maximum allowed CR of your chosen animal companion increases. At this point you may either choose to seek out a newer, more powerful animal companion, or “train” your existing one to increase its abilities. In the latter case, for every “step” in CR that you bring up the creature (¼ > ½ > 1 > 2 > 3) do the following:
Increase its Strength, Dexterity, Constitution and Wisdom by 2 points, adjusting all statistics accordingly.
Give it one additional hit die of whatever kind it has, increasing its hit points accordingly.

Exceptional Training: You can use a bonus action to command the beast to take the Dash, Disengage, Dodge or Help actions.

Independence: Being more clever than another animal of its kind, your companion is capable of understanding more complex commands, such as “Attack all of those creatures”, or “Stay here and attack those who approach”. It is also capable of taking the Dash and Disengage actions on its own.

Understanding: At level 11, your creature is capable of understanding one language that you speak at a reasonably fluent level (though it cannot speak it). You can coordinate and discuss complex plans with the creature before battle begins, and give it much more complex instructions that before. The creature is capable of taking any of the standard actions available to it without being commanded in the midst of battle.

Bestial Fury: Your companion can attack far more furiously before with your direction. Whenever you command it to Attack using your action, it can do one additional attack on top of its standard attacks, whether or not it is using Multiattack.

Share Spells: Standard


A lot of these ideas were adapted from here (https://www.reddit.com/r/boh5e/comments/3zklkk/ranger_redux_fixes_for_the_ranger_class_by_usmyris/), with bits and pieces from other places.

EDIT: Nerfed proficiency bonus a bit.

Easy_Lee
2016-08-12, 01:16 PM
Based on my damage calculations, the appropriate cost for a free acting beast is the ranger's extra attack.

Specter
2016-08-12, 01:18 PM
I will suggest something simpler, which might not be adequate for everyone.

Give the ranger's beast ONLY the bonus HP from ranger levels (no proficiency to damage, AC, nothing), and make it act based on your commands (no action required). 3.5 did that, and it worked.

Also, for an easier time in combat and in interacting scenes, make the beast understand the ranger's speech. Seriously. It's a huge difference, and dismisses the need of adjucating every intelligent thing the ranger tells his animal to do, like waiting or ambushing an enemy.

Easy_Lee
2016-08-12, 01:21 PM
I will suggest something simpler, which might not be adequate for everyone.

Give the ranger's beast ONLY the bonus HP from ranger levels (no proficiency to damage, AC, nothing), and make it act based on your commands (no action required). 3.5 did that, and it worked.

Also, for an easier time in combat and in interacting scenes, make the beast understand the ranger's speech. Seriously. It's a huge difference, and dismisses the need of adjucating every intelligent thing the ranger tells his animal to do, like waiting or ambushing an enemy.

That penalizes the ranger for taking beasts who have high hit points by default. Which the base feature already does, I suppose. Also, Rangers in 3.5e were awful.

rudy
2016-08-12, 01:33 PM
Good thoughts so far; made me realize it was definitely a bit overpowered as is. Given that the creature can essentially act independently at some point, adding proficiency bonus at all on top of their CR based stats was too much. I altered the chart above to just give them a scaling bonus to AC. Their attacks are now fully based on their CR, while they receive numerous defensive bonuses (AC, hit points, minor save bonuses) from their companion status.

Easy_Lee
2016-08-12, 01:48 PM
Good thoughts so far; made me realize it was definitely a bit overpowered as is. Given that the creature can essentially act independently at some point, adding proficiency bonus at all on top of their CR based stats was too much. I altered the chart above to just give them a scaling bonus to AC. Their attacks are now fully based on their CR, while they receive numerous defensive bonuses (AC, hit points, minor save bonuses) from their companion status.

I think you're overcomplicating things. It's much easier to just use proficiency where appropriate and balance from there.

Take a panther companion at level 3. It has one attack and might get one bonus attack. That never changes. If it adds the ranger's proficiency to its attacks, then its damage for one attack is not too far off from what the ranger can do.

The ranger might be two weapon fighting. If the panther gets both attacks, that's four attacks total that round. Is that acceptable, when compared with a similar hunter getting three from his attacks + horde breaker? What about at level 11, when the beast master with a free acting panther can now do two attacks and a bonus, and his panther can do two attacks and a bonus? That makes 6 attacks, which is more than a comparable warrior can do (four with TWF, five if you use the common TWF house-rule of an extra attack at 11).

One idea: add the ranger's proficiency to beast hit at 3, proficiency to beast damage at 11, and don't give beast master rangers extra attack at 5.

rudy
2016-08-12, 01:51 PM
If it adds the ranger's proficiency to its attacks, then its damage for one attack is not too far off from what the ranger can do.
Yes, but this ignores the point of the alterations I'm doing. I want the beast to be able to act independently of the ranger, and more so as they level. If they are going to be able to attack *in addition* to the ranger attacking normally, then their attacks need to be notably weaker than the Ranger's in order to maintain balance of the archetype.

Easy_Lee
2016-08-12, 02:28 PM
Yes, but this ignores the point of the alterations I'm doing. I want the beast to be able to act independently of the ranger, and more so as they level. If they are going to be able to attack *in addition* to the ranger attacking normally, then their attacks need to be notably weaker than the Ranger's in order to maintain balance of the archetype.

Alternatively, the ranger needs to give up his extra attack action, like I said. Or do you dislike that option? If you do, then you'll find that the simplest solution is limiting the beast to a single attack per round.

rudy
2016-08-12, 02:33 PM
I dislike the removing Extra attack, because it penalizes Rangers without affecting, say, Fighter 5 / Ranger+ builds, which could become relatively overpowered in terms of action economy.

As far as the one attack a round, the reason that I'm not fond of that is that it makes all the animal companions with multiattack useless. If we compare Brown Bear to Dire Wolf, they are both CR 1. The Dire Wolf has one strong single attack, while the Brown Bear has two weaker attacks. If the animal companion is limited to one attack, it doesn't affect the Dire Wolf at all.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-08-12, 02:33 PM
I will suggest something simpler, which might not be adequate for everyone.

Give the ranger's beast ONLY the bonus HP from ranger levels (no proficiency to damage, AC, nothing), and make it act based on your commands (no action required). 3.5 did that, and it worked.
Not quite the same- 3.5 animal companions got HIT DICE, which meant increased attacks, saves, and skills. They also got bonuses to AC and stats. And you could pick more powerful animals as you gained levels.

Easy_Lee
2016-08-12, 02:56 PM
I dislike the removing Extra attack, because it penalizes Rangers without affecting, say, Fighter 5 / Ranger+ builds, which could become relatively overpowered in terms of action economy.

Sample feature wording: "on any round in which your beast attacks, you may not make more than one attack with the Attack action. This does not affect your bonus action." The better way to "abuse" this would be to try to pick up an attack cantrip.


As far as the one attack a round, the reason that I'm not fond of that is that it makes all the animal companions with multiattack useless. If we compare Brown Bear to Dire Wolf, they are both CR 1. The Dire Wolf has one strong single attack, while the Brown Bear has two weaker attacks. If the animal companion is limited to one attack, it doesn't affect the Dire Wolf at all.

It sounds like you want beast masters with free acting beast to work, but are opposed to all suggestions which make them work.

rudy
2016-08-12, 03:01 PM
Sample feature wording: "on any round in which your beast attacks, you may not make more than one attack with the Attack action. This does not affect your bonus action." The better way to "abuse" this would be to try to pick up an attack cantrip.
Hm... that's definitely a possibility


It sounds like you want beast masters with free acting beast to work, but are opposed to all suggestions which make them work.
That's not it at all. I simply disagree that limiting animal companions to one attack is a meaningful restriction, since there are plenty of animals, such as the aforementioned Dire Wolf, that don't use more than one attack while still being quite effective. If the game is claiming that a Brown Bear with multiattack, and a Dire Wolf without it, are the same CR, then placing a "limitation" that only affects one of them is not a real limitation on the power of the class.

Specter
2016-08-12, 03:09 PM
Not quite the same- 3.5 animal companions got HIT DICE, which meant increased attacks, saves, and skills. They also got bonuses to AC and stats. And you could pick more powerful animals as you gained levels.

Then perhaps the 11th-level ability could reflect things like Evasion and Devotion from 3.5, since a 2nd attack on a free beast is too much.


That penalizes the ranger for taking beasts who have high hit points by default. Which the base feature already does, I suppose. Also, Rangers in 3.5e were awful.

I think of it as giving every beast a chance, but perhaps I'm a glass half full kinda guy.
As for ranger being bad back in the day, compared to Wizard/Druid/Cleric most classes were. But you mean, Beastmaster bad? Then no.

rudy
2016-08-12, 03:11 PM
since a 2nd attack on a free beast is too much.
One thing I did leave in is that the 11st level Bestial Fury *does* still require an command from you if you want to get the extra attack (letting you take one attack). If acting freely they still just get their normal attacks.

rudy
2016-08-12, 03:14 PM
I also want to make the following argument:

Because I am no longer adding proficiency bonus to attacks or to damage, then allowing animals that have it to just use Multiattack is not a balance concern. Without that addition to attack and damage, if you consider two creatures of the same CR, where one has one attack, and the other has multiattack, the one with one attack has a much more powerful attack, leaving the two creatures balanced on average.

The reason the base ranger had to remove multiattack as a base option is because adding proficiency bonus to damage benefits the multiattack creature much more.