Building a frost mage

[Elite Hatter]

Hello playground.

A favorite build concept I particularly like, Abjuration Wizard 18, Warlock 1 or 2. And cast Armor of Agathys at a high level (preferably 9th) giving you 45 temp hp and charging your ward with 45 points. Given how I understand the rules the Ward hp is used before temp hp and you can refill it throughout the day by casting more spells. And as long as you have the temp hp anyone hitting you takes 45 cold damage.

Now building off of this concept, of course there's Ray of frost, chromatic orb, Cone of cold and the like. But I was wondering about a more cc based mage. I like the aesthetic of freezing foes in place or hindering their movement or blocking paths with ice.

[hymer]

But I was wondering about a more cc based mage. I like the aesthetic of freezing foes in place or hindering their movement or blocking paths with ice.

Hold Person and Hold Monster could be fluffed as freezing them. Wall of Stone fluffed as a wall of ice - even better, Wall of Force and Forcecage as magical ice that can't be thawed or broken.

[RickAllison]

Fog Cloud is a thick snowstorm, Grease is Black Ice, Blur is a flurry that makes the user indistinct and difficult to target, Mirror Image envelops the user in ice that refracts their image so you can't tell which is real.

[Sir cryosin]

Stack fire shield and hellish rebuke and after they hit you if they survive they will leave you alone forever.

[Elite Hatter]

Stack fire shield and hellish rebuke and after they hit you if they survive they will leave you alone forever.

This, I like this.

Also thank you everyone else. I love the re-flavor ideas. So much simple than I thought it'd be.

[Degwerks]

There's also Investiture of Ice I think its called, from the Elemental Evil players companion. 6th level concentration spell that basically coats you in cold stuff and makes you immune to cold, resistant to fire and other things.

[Elite Hatter]

That spell is both thematic and mechanically perfect. Awesome.

[Sir cryosin]

Fire shield also has a cold part to it you get to choose to do fire or cold damage. I didn't know that till last night when I was reading my phb.

[Madbox]

Talk to your DM and see if they'll let you change fireball or lightning to ice damage and refluff as a giant snowball or supercharged ray of frost.

[Catullus]

Hello playground.

A favorite build concept I particularly like, Abjuration Wizard 18, Warlock 1 or 2. And cast Armor of Agathys at a high level (preferably 9th) giving you 45 temp hp and charging your ward with 45 points. Given how I understand the rules the Ward hp is used before temp hp and you can refill it throughout the day by casting more spells. And as long as you have the temp hp anyone hitting you takes 45 cold damage..


Just wondering, how are you casting Armor of Agathys at 9th level? It's not on the Wizard spell list.

[RickAllison]

Just wondering, how are you casting Armor of Agathys at 9th level? It's not on the Wizard spell list.

Any spells that you can cast using a spell slot, you can use to cast with any spell slot. Just as a Wizardlock can use the lock's slots to cast Fog Cloud, the main slots can be used for AoA. Do note that this does not include spells that you Magic Initiate for and don't have the class levels (so you can't burn slots for Healing Word), since you can't use any spell slots for those.

[hymer]

Just wondering, how are you casting Armor of Agathys at 9th level? It's not on the Wizard spell list.

Warlock slots are weird. If the DM okays them being dependent on something other than warlock level for a multiclass warlock, a dip in warlock can be really powerful to any 17th level full caster, as it lets them cast several ninth level spells per day.

[Elite Hatter]

Warlock slots are weird. If the DM okays them being dependent on something other than warlock level for a multiclass warlock, a dip in warlock can be really powerful to any 17th level full caster, as it lets them cast several ninth level spells per day.

How? You only have one 9th level slot. And no feature in the game of any caster can get back slots of 6th level or higher.

[hymer]

How? You only have one 9th level slot. And no feature in the game of any caster can get back slots of 6th level or higher.

Well, warlock spell slots are supposed to be capped at fifth level if I understand it right. If the DM reads the part in the multiclassing section loosely enough, it could be taken to mean you can use warlock spell slots to power any spell from your other casting class.
I wouldn't suggest doing that, though.

[Elite Hatter]

Well, warlock spell slots are supposed to be capped at fifth level if I understand it right. If the DM reads the part in the multiclassing section loosely enough, it could be taken to mean you can use warlock spell slots to power any spell from your other casting class.
I wouldn't suggest doing that, though.

That's how I've always understood it to work. I mean to get to that point your what, 9 or 10 levels into warlock? Why not let the slots reset per rest? At that point your not even getting your other casting classes capstone. Hell you aren't even getting above 6th level slots in that class.

With the 17/3 split you'd be getting only a few 1st level slots I belive, I'm away from the book atm. But still. A few more shields or magic missles? That isn't so game breaking. Is it? Pact magic is strong. If invested into. Dipping takes alot of the power away from it imo. I mean the mainstay of 2/3 warlock pacts is EB. With the invocation.

[hymer]

That's how I've always understood it to work. I mean to get to that point your what, 9 or 10 levels into warlock? Why not let the slots reset per rest? At that point your not even getting your other casting classes capstone. Hell you aren't even getting above 6th level slots in that class.

With the 17/3 split you'd be getting only a few 1st level slots I belive, I'm away from the book atm. But still. A few more shields or magic missles? That isn't so game breaking. Is it? Pact magic is strong. If invested into. Dipping takes alot of the power away from it imo. I mean the mainstay of 2/3 warlock pacts is EB. With the invocation.

It depends on exactly what the DM lets you get away with. A two-level dip in warlock lets you cast an additional two 9th level spells per day? OP, and I'm pretty sure not the intention of the designers.
If it's an additional two spell slots which must be spent on first level spells, which get advanced to ninth level slot equivalent? Probably not OP, but still, I think, more than the designers intended.
I think the spell slots are supposed to cap at level 5 as warlock spells usually do. So they can power spells of level 1 to 5, with the normal consequences of using them with a fifth level spell slot. And you don't get any more of those 1/day spell slots that are so precious.

But this is from a quick reading, probably months ago, and I'm happy to take correction.

[Elite Hatter]

It depends on exactly what the DM lets you get away with. A two-level dip in warlock lets you cast an additional two 9th level spells per day? OP, and I'm pretty sure not the intention of the designers.
If it's an additional two spell slots which must be spent on first level spells, which get advanced to ninth level slot equivalent? Probably not OP, but still, I think, more than the designers intended.
I think the spell slots are supposed to cap at level 5 as warlock spells usually do. So they can power spells of level 1 to 5, with the normal consequences of using them with a fifth level spell slot. And you don't get any more of those 1/day spell slots that are so precious.

But this is from a quick reading, probably months ago, and I'm happy to take correction.

I'm missing something Pact Magic doesn't work like that. It is its own thing entirely. You only get 1st level slots with a 2 or 3 dip. Only to be spent on that level spells. You cant spend them on 9th. Or 5th. Or even 2nd. I suppose if a DM gives you those slots as a free refill on any existing slot you have from your main casting class, yes that'd be broken. But how woud one even interpret it that way...?

[hymer]

I'm missing something Pact Magic doesn't work like that. It is its own thing entirely. You only get 1st level slots with a 2 or 3 dip. Only to be spent on that level spells. You cant spend them on 9th. Or 5th. Or even 2nd. I suppose if a DM gives you those slots as a free refill on any existing slot you have from your main casting class, yes that'd be broken. But how woud one even interpret it that way...?

Okay, I've been trying to avoid this, but I'll write it out. :smallsmile: Pardon any typing errors.


Pact Magic. If you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock class, you can use the spell slots from the Pact Magic feature to cast spells you know or have prepared from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, and you can use the spell slots you gain from the Spellcasting class feature to cast spell you know.

So there's definitely supposed to be some overlap when multiclassing, but it doesn't exactly specify. Interpretations abound, some no doubt a lot less correct than others. *shrug* I've never played a warlock.

Sidenote: Is a cleric's whole spell list 'known' to them? So they could cast even spells not prepared from pact magic slots? Well, yes, perhaps. But that's probably not what the designers intended. I expect they intended for clerics to use the 'spells prepared' part. But they didn't specify.

[Dalebert]

You can use them to cast any spell you know but they're still only 1st or 2nd level slots. You can't cast a 9th level spell with a 1st or 2nd level slot. You can cast a 1st or 2nd level spell.

The OP is talking about using a 9th level slot gained from being 17th level wizard to cast ARmor of Agythys (a 1st level warlock spell) boosted to 9th level. That's casting a 1st level spell with a 9th level slot which is fine but you can't cast a 9th level spell with a 1st level slot.

[hymer]

You can use them to cast any spell you know but they're still only 1st or 2nd level slots. You can't cast a 9th level spell with a 1st or 2nd level slot. You can cast a 1st or 2nd level spell.

The OP is talking about using a 9th level slot gained from being 17th level wizard to cast ARmor of Agythys (a 1st level warlock spell) boosted to 9th level. That's casting a 1st level spell with a 9th level slot which is fine but you can't cast a 9th level spell with a 1st level slot.

Right, my attempt to clarify something fairly parenthetical just ended up confusing the issue. My bad.

[Catullus]

Any spells that you can cast using a spell slot, you can use to cast with any spell slot. Just as a Wizardlock can use the lock's slots to cast Fog Cloud, the main slots can be used for AoA. Do note that this does not include spells that you Magic Initiate for and don't have the class levels (so you can't burn slots for Healing Word), since you can't use any spell slots for those.

Thanks! (extra words to get up to the word limit)

[Arkhios]

It's important to remember that (especially) in 5th edition spell slots and spells known/prepared are two different concepts.

Spells known/prepared are a list of spells you can choose and cast from.
When you multiclass, your spells known from each classes are technically added to a same list, separate from your spell slots.

Spell slots are the actual resource you spend to cast your spells.
When you multiclass, your spell slots will continue to progress in a number of ways, depending on your classes.
Warlock spell slots are different from others.
They progress separately as a full caster up to 9th level, beyond that they will only get individual spells as "spell like abilities".
However, all spell slots you have (regardless of where you get them from) can be used to cast any spell you know and as long as the slot level can support the spell.

As an afternote, stating the obvious (in case someone reading this was unaware of the fact):
Whether or not you cast a Warlock or Wizard spell from your Warlock slots or Wizard slots, the spells you cast still depend on your individual class' spellcasting ability modifier (Charisma for Warlock, Intelligence for Wizard, etc.)

[ZX6Rob]

Talk to your DM and see if they'll let you change fireball or lightning to ice damage and refluff as a giant snowball or supercharged ray of frost.

This is one of my favorite things to do, both as a DM and as a player. Any spell that just deals elemental damage in a shape is easy to rework to use a different damage type. I like to use this (shameless plug!) in my Sorcerer bonus spells house-rule for Dragon Sorcerers -- they get to choose a bonus spell known every other level, and one option is always a blasting spell, the damage type of which is always changed to match their Draconic Origin.

I'd probably also let any Wizard use a similar spell, too, especially to keep up with an elemental "theme" of sorts. Heck, I'd be fine with letting a Wizard learn both Fireball and Iceball or Acidball or Thunderball (good movie, kind of cheesy), so long as they took the gold and space in their book to do it.

[NNescio]

Hello playground.

A favorite build concept I particularly like, Abjuration Wizard 18, Warlock 1 or 2. And cast Armor of Agathys at a high level (preferably 9th) giving you 45 temp hp and charging your ward with 45 points. Given how I understand the rules the Ward hp is used before temp hp and you can refill it throughout the day by casting more spells. And as long as you have the temp hp anyone hitting you takes 45 cold damage.

Now building off of this concept, of course there's Ray of frost, chromatic orb, Cone of cold and the like. But I was wondering about a more cc based mage. I like the aesthetic of freezing foes in place or hindering their movement or blocking paths with ice.

I dunno, using up your 9th on AoA seems quite a waste, especially since you only get one 9th level slot. Said slot can be used on Wish or True Polymorph, and even less strong options like Shapechange and Meteor Swarm are still much better than the AoA.

I admit it's quite thematic though.

A Sorlock build with a White or Silver Dragon ancestor on the Sorcerer side might fit the theme even better though, if you intend to blast. That said the Sorcerer's lack of spells known is quite crippling, and their spell list is basically a truncated version of the Wizard's (losing access to many bennies), so there's that.

[Elite Hatter]

I dunno, using up your 9th on AoA seems quite a waste, especially since you only get one 9th level slot. Said slot can be used on Wish or True Polymorph, and even less strong options like Shapechange and Meteor Swarm are still much better than the AoA.

I admit it's quite thematic though.

A Sorlock build with a White or Silver Dragon ancestor on the Sorcerer side might fit the theme even better though, if you intend to blast. That said the Sorcerer's lack of spells known is quite crippling, and their spell list is basically a truncated version of the Wizard's (losing access to many bennies), so there's that.

I like the 9th level AoA idea because of the free damage and essentially double shield. While I admit Foresight is leagues and bounds better. I'm trying more of a theme character, focusing on the power of ice. Is slows, freezes, traps, and hinders those against me. And also can be made to protect me. Lies with AoA, my Shield spell will be an instant wall of impenetrable ice, stuff like that. And as mentioned above, Hold person just freezing foes in place, force cage and grease are ice based as well. Plus the extraordinary ice spells that exist as is, cone of cold and ice storm. Investure of ice, ice wall are all already great.

As for the sorcerer idea, I have a back pocket lightning based blue dragonborn waiting to be played. So for this idea Wizard seemed the way to go.

Sorry for the rant =/ I'm excited about this Guy.

[Elite Hatter]

I misunderstood how the abjuration ward first casting worked. A 5th level AoA will still give me the 45 hp ward and 30 temp hp. Saving that all important 9th slot.

[Safety Sword]

Fire shield also has a cold part to it you get to choose to do fire or cold damage. I didn't know that till last night when I was reading my phb.

Rename the spell too!

How about Icy Revenge?

[Elite Hatter]

Rename the spell too!

How about Icy Revenge?

Ill swing it by my DM. Thanks for the idea ^.^

[NNescio]

I misunderstood how the abjuration ward first casting worked. A 5th level AoA will still give me the 45 hp ward and 30 temp hp. Saving that all important 9th slot.

If you key a Level 1 or 2 Abjuration spell to Spell Mastery (so you can cast them at will), you can essentially refresh your Ward at will so long as you can spare the action (any bonus action Wiz/Lock abjuration spells out there?) to cast it (which practically means all the time while outside combat).

Alternatively, you can take the Armor of Shadows invocation instead to cast Mage Armor at will (refluff it as Ice Armor or something). This leaves you free to take Shield as your at-will Spell Mastery level 1 spell instead.

(Shield can also recharge the Ward, but you can only cast it as a reaction when you're actually hit or targeted by the MM spell, so you can't exactly cast it all the time).

[hymer]

any bonus action Wiz/Lock abjuration spells out there?

How about Reaction? Absorb Elements. Shield. Worth considering as picks in any case.

Edit: Oh, you're right that you need to be targeted. Fiddlesticks.

[NNescio]

How about Reaction? Absorb Elements. Shield. Worth considering as picks in any case.

Edit: Oh, you're right that you need to be targeted. Fiddlesticks.

Hmm, now that I think about it... you can hit yourself with an unarmed strike, right? Would work out of battle, but is quite cheesy.

"I punch myself."

"Why would you want to do that?"

"I roll attack."

"*sigh* fine."

"I hit myself. I use my reaction to cast Shield, recharging my Ward."

"@#@$@!^%#%"

[Arkhios]

Hmm, now that I think about it... you can hit yourself with an unarmed strike, right?

The mental picture is hilarious: A wizard slapping his own face for 1+Strength (probably with a negative modifier), potentially for a total of 0 damage each time, to cast a Shield.

Assuming attacking yourself is always a hit (a Shield spell won't negate the hit, so you'll want to have a negative modifier to avoid taking damage. If you actually have to roll to hit yourself, preferably have at least -2 strength, so even the occasional critical slap on your face won't deal damage!)

[NNescio]

The mental picture is hilarious: A wizard slapping his own face for 1+Strength (probably with a negative modifier), potentially for a total of 0 damage each time, to cast a Shield.

Assuming attacking yourself is always a hit (a Shield spell won't negate the hit, so you'll want to have a negative modifier to avoid taking damage. If you actually have to roll to hit yourself, preferably have at least -2 strength, so even the occasional critical slap on your face won't deal damage!)

Heh. Still though, unless you're a monk, a crit unarmed strike deals the same damage as a non-crit one because it's a static 1 + str mod, without any dice rolling.

[Elite Hatter]

If you key a Level 1 or 2 Abjuration spell to Spell Mastery (so you can cast them at will), you can essentially refresh your Ward at will so long as you can spare the action (any bonus action Wiz/Lock abjuration spells out there?) to cast it (which practically means all the time while outside combat).

Alternatively, you can take the Armor of Shadows invocation instead to cast Mage Armor at will (refluff it as Ice Armor or something). This leaves you free to take Shield as your at-will Spell Mastery level 1 spell instead.

(Shield can also recharge the Ward, but you can only cast it as a reaction when you're actually hit or targeted by the MM spell, so you can't exactly cast it all the time).

I'm taking the mage armor invocation and the improved dark vision.

As for signature spells, Shield and Misty Step.

[Joe the Rat]

You've got the Elemental Evil Player's Companion list, right? Ice Knife, Snilloc's snowball swarm... frostbite or shape water (which includes freezing) if you have the spare cantrip slot.

Heh. Still though, unless you're a monk, a crit unarmed strike deals the same damage as a non-crit one because it's a static 1 + str mod, without any dice rolling.I don't know if this is how they intended it, but I treat the 1 as the damage die: 1d1. So you do 2+Str on a crit.
Yes, I'd have half orcs and barbarians punch really hard on a crit... almost actual weapon damage!

[Arkhios]

I don't know if this is how they intended it, but I treat the 1 as the damage die: 1d1. So you do 2+Str on a crit.
Yes, I'd have half orcs and barbarians punch really hard on a crit... almost actual weapon damage!

This is how I've interpreted it to work. Since the system is designed to completely drop non-standard (D&D) dice like 1d2 and 1d3, I'm assuming unarmed strike damage is intended to function exactly like any damage from an attack: On a crit you roll twice and then add strength. Now, I am aware you can't "roll" a 1, but it's still damage from an attack.

Unarmed Crit: 2+strength for a non-orc, non-barbarian. Seriously, it's not going to break the game, now is it?

[hymer]

Now, I am aware you can't "roll" a 1, but it's still damage from an attack.

A sphere with '1' written on it? :smallwink:

[RickAllison]

A sphere with '1' written on it? :smallwink:

Isn't the d100 just a sphere with the numbers one to one hundred on it?

[NNescio]

A sphere with '1' written on it? :smallwink:

A two-headed coin?