3.5 Incantatrix

[LordOfCain]

Where is the updated version of the incantatrix located?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 61.

[Bobbybobby99]

It's also hideously unbalanced, and should only be used in a game where you hate your DM.

[MisterKaws]

It's also hideously unbalanced, and should only be used in a game where you hate your DM.

I think that's an understatement...

[Metahuman1]

I have never grasped that idea myself.


I gives like, 1 level cost reduction to Metamagic. I've heard there's a way to get persist spell for free on it but darned if I can see what it is.

[Andezzar]

It's also hideously unbalanced, and should only be used in a game where you hate your DM.Incantatrix is not that much more powerful than a tier 1 caster already is. Sure cheap metamagic is nice, but wizards already bend reality to their whims, so...

Free persist sounds interesting. Has anyone an idea how to do it?

[Beheld]

...... The level 2 and 3 Abilities give free Persists out the butt.

Every time the Party goes to cast a buff spell (something he will do a lot more when you explain this to him) 3+Int mod times a day, you can Persist it for free with Cooperative Metamagic. (You have to do some basic Spellcraft optimization.)

Then you can cast your own buff spells, and then use Metamagic effect to Persist your own spells another 3+Int mod times a day.

If you aren't already casting Planar Binding, Incantatrix is just about four times as powerful as a regular Wizard.

[Andezzar]

That's nice indeed. I somhow missed cooperative metamagic. While not RAW the name of the class feature and the description do imply that she cannot do it to her own spells.

With enough Nightsticks a cleric can persist an arbitrary number of spells out of the box (except for getting the requiored feats as bonus feats).

How relevant is persistent spell really? Most spells have long enough durations to effectively work all day and those that don't mpostly are lower levels so you can cast them more than once easily.

[Eldariel]

Incantatrix with Metamagic Effect and Cooperative Metamagic is persisting 6×+2×Int (easily 20+) each day. That means it's a Wizard who is perpetually immune to everything and can solve most encounters without using spells.

The nature of the abilities makes Incantatars extraordinarily capable of using other casters' spells too, making for a huge force multiplier for the already-ridiculous caster parties.

[Andezzar]

I'm not disputing that incantatrix make the caster more powerful, I'm questioning whether this power increase is significant in the sense that a DM can deal with a regular Batman Wizard but cannot deal with an Incantatrix. I don't hthink the PrC pushes the character over the threshold.

[AvatarVecna]

I'm not disputing that incantatrix make the caster more powerful, I'm questioning whether this power increase is significant in the sense that a DM can deal with a regular Batman Wizard but cannot deal with an Incantatrix. I don't hthink the PrC pushes the character over the threshold.

The difference between a highly-optimized Wizard 20 and a highly-optimized Wizard 10/Incantatrix 10 is almost completely moot: both will be untouchable/unlocatable 24/7, will be adventuring from their private demiplane via Astral Projection while under dozens of persisted/permanent buff spells that make them immune to everything, and will be bringing along an army of clones as well as an army of outsiders bound via Planar Binding.

The difference between mid-op Wizard 20 and mid-op Wizard 10/Incantatrix 10 is more important: mid-op Wizard 20 might not be as capable of persisting spells for free, even with the Incantatrix metamagic reduction, and so the ability to do so is a significant boost to your long-term defenses.

The most important difference is between a mid-op Wizard 10 and a mid-op Wizard 5/Incantatrix 5; in those mid-levels, when you're still on the path to 9th lvl spells, you're not quite unbeatable yet, so you need to be a bit more careful, and Incantatrix has a lot of ways to make your life easier.

[Beheld]

That's nice indeed. I somhow missed cooperative metamagic. While not RAW the name of the class feature and the description do imply that she cannot do it to her own spells.

With enough Nightsticks a cleric can persist an arbitrary number of spells out of the box (except for getting the requiored feats as bonus feats).

How relevant is persistent spell really? Most spells have long enough durations to effectively work all day and those that don't mpostly are lower levels so you can cast them more than once easily.

1) You can't use Cooperative Metamagic on your own spells (well there are lots of ways you can, but you won't) but the very next level ability, Metamagic effect, that you get at level 3 is the same thing but for spells already cast, including the Incantatrix/ar's own spells.

2) Yes, by spending tremendously large piles of money, Clerics can break the game too. But taking 3 levels in a prestige class is easier than spending tons of money.

3) Very few to zero spells last all day before very high levels. recasting lower level ones can be a suckers game, because you either burn through spell slots super fast (and consequenly have far fewer actual buffs) or have to take actual actions in combat.

Here's a Wizard 5/Incanatatrix 4 buff set up.

The Wizard adventures under the effects of Persisted Displacement, Magic Circle Against Evil, Greater invisibility, Ray Deflection, and Greater Blink from his own spells. He tosses on Persisted Deathward, Sheltered Vitality, and FoM from the Cleric.

This character is basically invincible to almost everything in the game. Every once in a while, something might be able to bother him, but it will be rare. If he wanted he could toss on a Persist Polymorph, Persisted Bloodwind, and Persisted Wraithstrike, and just full attack from range against touch AC to kill pretty much everything.

This is a fundamentally broken character in a way that "Wizard who can cast Baleful Polymorph and Greater Rebuke a few times a day" isn't.

[Bakkan]

To find spend that are good to persist, look at spend that normally have a very short duration. For instance, friendly fire (Elder Evils) only lasts 1 round/3 levels normally and makes you completely immune to all ranged attacks.

[Troacctid]

Persistent Spell is more broken than Incantatrix.

[AvatarVecna]

Persistent Spell is more broken than Incantatrix.

I think I mostly disagree with this. Persistent Spell is balanced enough against its metamagic cost; make a short-duration buff last all day in exchange for using a spell slot 6 levels higher? That's not a bad trade-off for getting short-term buffs all day. But when you combine it with spell slots higher than 9th lvl, or when you combine it with Metamagic Reduction, it gets mindnumbingly stupid.

[Necroticplague]

Incantatrix also benefit from the fact that the class is INCREDIBLY easy to qualify for. Heck, I've had quite a few casters who qualified by sheer accident, simply because of how low the bar is. 4 skills, 2 of which pretty much every caster has has, and 2 of which are pretty good (and if you're a wizard, you probably have, since making the Knowledge checks is usually your job). One feat that you can buy for not a whole lot of money, one feat that many who are looking to qualify will get as a bonus feat from their class. As a result, it leaves room on the end of a build for more levels in another useful prestige class.

Contrast this to, say, Spelldancer (a class similarly good, possibly even better, at abusing Persist), which requires skills that are normally cross-class, and 4 crappy feats your average caster isn't gonna take.

[Godskook]

Persistent Spell is more broken than Incantatrix.

Persistent Spell, without metamagic cost mitigation, is a problem for level 13+ Wizards. Which is the last 40% of the game. While Persistent Spell is somewhat broken at any level of play, you gotta admit, its more broken the earlier its brought into play. Persistent Spell at lvl 1-4 would just be worse than the same metamagic at a later level, if by no other measure, than at least by # of levels destroyed. Mitigations bring it down to the early levels. Incantrix comes online for this at level 7, getting 3+Intmod free persists per day. That's 6 more levels to destroyed or another 30% of the game. And Persistent Spell isn't the only broken thing Incantrix can do.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I like the idea of using metamagic effect Selective Spell to bypass everything from antimagic fields to forbiddances to dimension locks to walls of force to prismatic spheres. You can also use it on cooperative metamagic if you can catch them casting the

[Eldariel]

I like the idea of using metamagic effect Selective Spell to bypass everything from antimagic fields to forbiddances to dimension locks to walls of force to prismatic spheres. You can also use it on cooperative metamagic if you can catch them casting the

There's also Sculpt Spell for Metamagic Effect funzies. Metamagic Effect was actually one of the things specifically mentioned as a problem with the Twice-Betrayer.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you want Persist shenanigans, just access a demiplane that's timeless with regards to magic, plant an oak tree there, and cast acorn of far travel on it. So long as you carry the acorn, all of your spells last forever (including the acorn itself) until dispelled. In addition, if the demiplane has the enhanced magic trait, you can have Persistent Spell for free, as well (not to mention Widened, Enlarged, Extended, Maximized, Empowered, etc, etc, etc).

[Zanos]

If you want Persist shenanigans, just access a demiplane that's timeless with regards to magic, plant an oak tree there, and cast acorn of far travel on it. So long as you carry the acorn, all of your spells last forever (including the acorn itself) until dispelled. In addition, if the demiplane has the enhanced magic trait, you can have Persistent Spell for free, as well (not to mention Widened, Enlarged, Extended, Maximized, Empowered, etc, etc, etc).
Wouldn't this technically make any bad stuff on you also last forever?

But yeah, a 17th level wizard can just use genesis to create a plane with free every metamagic on every single spell he casts.

Assuming you don't abuse Incantatrix too much it isn't bad. If you're just using the general cost reduction to throw empowered fireballs and maximize your walls of fire after the fact, it isn't a big deal. Player>Build>Class, as usual.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wouldn't this technically make any bad stuff on you also last forever?Yes, although by that point, you're either immune to most bad things anyway, you have the means to cure them, or you can gain the means to cure them very fast. (Iron heart vest with iron heart surge FTW.)

[Blackhawk748]

Assuming you don't abuse Incantatrix too much it isn't bad. If you're just using the general cost reduction to throw empowered fireballs and maximize your walls of fire after the fact, it isn't a big deal. Player>Build>Class, as usual.

I used it to make my Macrosse Missile Massacre Mage, obviously that mage was built to throw out as many ranged touch attacks per round as i could muster and i needed Incantrix for all of the extra feats it gives.

Frankly as long as Persist and Irresistable Spell are off the table Incatatrix is fairly tame for a casting PrC, it makes you better at metamagic and thats about it.