Assuming a permanent form

[flappeercraft]

So recently I found about the Gloom. I found that it would be incredibly useful to assume that form for a build I was making for a orber but if I want to do that the problem is that I would have to use up 13 spell points (we use the Unearthed Arcana variant rule of spell points but a bit differently) for shapechange and spell enhancer to be able to use the form. Is there any way I can make it like my regular form without class levels like maybe some obscure spell or ritual of body changing crap? To what I have gathered I think my best option is a wish/miracle spell but is there any way of making it my permanent form or like have shapechange spell like ability or something?

[Inevitability]

Savage Species has some rituals on page 149 and page 150 that may help you out here.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The psionic powers fusion and astral seed will give you the abilities of the gloom in your current form. Astral seed by itself can give you the form of a gloom, if you first use shapechange (or its psionic equivalent, greater metamorphosis).

[flappeercraft]

The psionic powers fusion and astral seed will give you the abilities of the gloom in your current form. Astral seed by itself can give you the form of a gloom, if you first use shapechange (or its psionic equivalent, greater metamorphosis).

Is there a way I can use the astral seed power? The build im working on has no psionic classes or prestige classes. So is there a way to replicate this effect?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Is there a way I can use the astral seed power? The build im working on has no psionic classes or prestige classes. So is there a way to replicate this effect?
You can buy a magic item of astral seed, such as a dorje or power stone. You need to make several Use Psionic Device checks: a DC 33 to emulate 18+ intelligence (power stone), a DC 35 check to emulate ML 15 (power stone), a DC 20 check to emulate the power being on your class list (dorje), and DC 33 to address (power stone).

A dorje of astral seed costs 90 000 gp. It's expensive, because it has 50 charges. If you can get a low-charge dorje for 1800 gp/charge, that's probably the easiest way to use the power. A power stone of astral seed costs 3000 gp, but requires those fairly hard checks, which is difficult without guidance of the avatar and similar magic.

Do note that using astral seed costs you a level, and it's considered terribly cheesy.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hire the manifesting services of a high level psion for the powers you want via the soul crystal power (from Magic of Incarnum). It'll give you the equivalent of a multi-use psionic potion, but without the power level cap.

Use the pricing for spellcasting services in the PHB.

[flappeercraft]

You can buy a magic item of astral seed, such as a dorje or power stone. You need to make several Use Psionic Device checks: a DC 33 to emulate 18+ intelligence (power stone), a DC 35 check to emulate ML 15 (power stone), a DC 20 check to emulate the power being on your class list (dorje), and DC 33 to address (power stone).

A dorje of astral seed costs 90 000 gp. It's expensive, because it has 50 charges. If you can get a low-charge dorje for 1800 gp/charge, that's probably the easiest way to use the power. A power stone of astral seed costs 3000 gp, but requires those fairly hard checks, which is difficult without guidance of the avatar and similar magic.

Do note that using astral seed costs you a level, and it's considered terribly cheesy.

Solution for the level loss, Thought Bottle and about the cheesy part I dont really care about that, just trying to make the build as overpowered as possible

[MisterKaws]

Find a Telepath and have them use Psychic Reformation on themselves to get Expanded Knowledge(Astral Seed) and Expanded Knowledge(Metamorphosis), then they do the Psionic Sandwich trick, cancelling the level loss via Thought Bottle cheese, then True Mind Switch you to that thing, and then reverse the Psionic Sandwich trick, with two Thought Bottles to immediately negate the level losses that could possibly happen from your deaths.

You'll probably take a DMG to the face if you try this, though.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Solution for the level loss, Thought Bottle and about the cheesy part I dont really care about that, just trying to make the build as overpowered as possible
In that case:

Fill thought bottle.
Use fusion with whatever creature you want the powers of.
Manifest astral seed.
Die.
Regrow your body with all the tasty new powers.
???
Profit!

Good creatures to fuse with include the black ethergaunt, psionic elder brain, elemental weird and (young adult) force dragon.


Find a Telepath and have them use Psychic Reformation on themselves to get Expanded Knowledge(Astral Seed) and Expanded Knowledge(Metamorphosis), then they do the Psionic Sandwich trick, cancelling the level loss via Thought Bottle cheese, then True Mind Switch you to that thing, and then reverse the Psionic Sandwich trick, with two Thought Bottles to immediately negate the level losses that could possibly happen from your deaths.

You'll probably take a DMG to the face if you try this, though.
That's... a really roundabout way of switching forms. True mind switch costs 10 000 XP, is a higher-level power, and doesn't add anything whatsoever. Astral seed is all you need, possibly, if you want to avoid UMD checks, with the addition of soul crystal.

[MisterKaws]

That's... a really roundabout way of switching forms. True mind switch costs 10 000 XP, is a higher-level power, and doesn't add anything whatsoever. Astral seed is all you need, possibly, if you want to avoid UMD checks, with the addition of soul crystal.

Yes, but finding an IKEA Telepath is easier than finding such specific items from a rare magic-type.

And there's not really any reason to care about XP costs when using Thought Bottles, which any decent munchkin caster should have.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Yes, but finding an IKEA Telepath is easier than finding such specific items from a rare magic-type.
That doesn't make a lot of sense. You think psionics are rare, but telepath 17s are easier to find than cheap power stones? You can find any shaper 15+ (including any erudite 17s, which may also be telepaths) or psionic artificer 13 willing to craft the stone for you - that should be more common, cheaper, and less diplomatically challenging*. Even easier: find a shaper 15+ manifesting soul crystal with astral seed.

Edit: shaper 15, not any psion 15.


And there's not really any reason to care about XP costs when using Thought Bottles, which any decent munchkin caster should have.
Using a thought bottle still costs 500 XP. A telepath 17 doesn't have 20 000 XP to spare. They'll need to fill and use the thought bottle twice, for a 1000 XP price tag, or 5000 gp.

Astral seed is cleaner in every way - you have no previous body to look after (might cost you another thought bottle use), you don't need a real gloom, you don't need the psion's services except to provide one item or one power. With or without the use of thought bottles, it's straight up the better choice.



*Convincing a telepath 17 to use psychic reformation (up to four times), then doing the mind switch shuffle, which requires significant trust between the parties to be switched, is not an easy task. And then you still need to find an actual live gloom to switch with!