Greatest Swordsman In The World

[Britsky]

So, I wanna make a character who's pretty good with a sword, and by pretty good i mean the best. I want him to be cutting down dragons, slicing through armies, having one on one duels with all sorts of superpowered interplanar beings, he can use spells, special abilities, magical items, whatever so long as it's to supplement the use of the sword.

More interested in Pathfinder at the moment, but feel free to give me some 3.5 ideas.

[IcarusWulfe]

A Warblade focusing on the Iron Heart discipline sounds exactally like what you are looking for.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well, Path of War is what you want. Or, in 3.5, Tome of Battle.

Alternatively, magus (PF) or Swiftblade (3.5).

[Seerow]

Well, Path of War is what you want. Or, in 3.5, Tome of Battle.

Alternatively, magus (PF) or Swiftblade (3.5).

If able to use Path of War, I'm a big fan of the Myrmidon Fighter Archetype, especially combined with Martial Master.

Myrmidon gives you IL = Fighter Level, and a set maneuver progression. Martial Master lets you use actions to get feats. One of the PoW feats lets you grab a handful of maneuvers with level based on your IL. So as the greatest swordsman in the world you can spontaneously use pretty much any maneuver in the world when needed, and as a bonus you can also pick up whatever other feats you want/need in a pinch.

[Telonius]

"slicing through armies" is more like the Crusader's shtick, but Warblade would work fine too. Shock Trooper/Leap Attack/Pounce (probably through maneuver) combination for one-shotting things. Maybe a single level of Factotum (plus Able Learner) to get UMD and Iajutsu Focus on the skill list, but that's more of an "if you have room for it" thing.

[Roog]

"The World's Greatest Swordsman" probably an inappropriate character concept in a level based game.

In any campaign you are likely to run into another swordsman who is a greater swordsman than you were when you started (even if you are better than them now). Meaning you were not the world's greatest swordsman - you just though you were.

[Extra Anchovies]

Take Spell Thematics (Swords), play a Mailman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447435-quot-The-Mailman-A-Direct-Damage-Sorcerer-quot-(from-Wizards-forums)), and stick to mostly melee-range spells like Shocking Grasp, Combust, and Shivering Touch.

[Tvtyrant]

The more specific the goals, the better we can do.

Cutting down dragons: requires eother making things land, or flight.

Destroying extraplanar beings: requires hitting them, which means dispel/disjunction/some sort of buff removal.

Destroying armies: big areas of effect, great cleave, or some sort of contagious attack.

I am going to suggest telflammar shadowlord as the center of your build, as you can full attack multiple times a turn and it plays like a shonen character. Teleport onto a dragon and kill it, behind a caster, etc. And you are going to play a caster type, so you can add dispels.

[Eladrinblade]

A Warblade focusing on the Iron Heart discipline sounds exactally like what you are looking for.

I came here to say this.

Make him 20th, give him an artifact sword, PC-level WBL, good stats, and a completely combat focused build. Maybe an intelligent sword, maybe a dragon mount, but definitely stuff like mind blank and whatnot.

[Tuvarkz]

If able to use Path of War, I'm a big fan of the Myrmidon Fighter Archetype, especially combined with Martial Master.

Myrmidon gives you IL = Fighter Level, and a set maneuver progression. Martial Master lets you use actions to get feats. One of the PoW feats lets you grab a handful of maneuvers with level based on your IL. So as the greatest swordsman in the world you can spontaneously use pretty much any maneuver in the world when needed, and as a bonus you can also pick up whatever other feats you want/need in a pinch.

Tbh, Martial Master is no longer as good, because via AWT you can get multiple uses per day of Barroom Brawler amongst other things. I'd say to go with a full Warlord with the Fool's Errand discipline, whose highest level maneuver allows you to replicate lower level maneuvers of all the other disciplines, which does fit the 'use any technique available' part of it.

[Azoth]

Tbh, Martial Master is no longer as good, because via AWT you can get multiple uses per day of Barroom Brawler amongst other things. I'd say to go with a full Warlord with the Fool's Errand discipline, whose highest level maneuver allows you to replicate lower level maneuvers of all the other disciplines, which does fit the 'use any technique available' part of it.

I can agree that Martial Master isn't a no brainer choice anymore, but for builds that want to specialize in being "flexible", Martial Master will be generally more appealing than AWT options.

While Fools Errand is a great discipline, and having a manuevers that can replicate any lower level Manuevers is nice, Martial Master does offer a few advantages in the flexibility department that it does not. Coming online earlier and being able to allow you to snag multiple manuevers being the obvious.

[Âmesang]

Obviously the class you want to go with is *BARD* (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2CR2HaPq24&t=5m45s). :smallamused:

[Hand_of_Vecna]

If e6, e8, or e10 is an option play in that setting and make him a sword of the arcane order mystic ranger.

[digiman619]

Obviously the class you want to go with is *BARD* (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2CR2HaPq24&t=5m45s). :smallamused:

A) I was wondering when someone would mention that, and B) it was a 2E Bard, back when a bard was the most exclusive, most badass class around (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIuavbDijZM).

[ExLibrisMortis]

A) I was wondering when someone would mention that, and B) it was a 2E Bard, back when a bard was the most exclusive, most badass class around (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIuavbDijZM).
To follow up: these days the equivalent is Fochlucan Lyrist, which is nice (dual casting and full base attack), but hard to enter, and competing with Wild Shape on druids.

[Tuvarkz]

I can agree that Martial Master isn't a no brainer choice anymore, but for builds that want to specialize in being "flexible", Martial Master will be generally more appealing than AWT options.

While Fools Errand is a great discipline, and having a manuevers that can replicate any lower level Manuevers is nice, Martial Master does offer a few advantages in the flexibility department that it does not. Coming online earlier and being able to allow you to snag multiple manuevers being the obvious.

The second feat in the Fool's Errand style also makes you gain a temporary bonus combat feat upon entering the style, and then being a full initiator also has the benefits of having significantly more maneuvers than a 6/9 initiator.

[Azoth]

The second feat in the Fool's Errand style also makes you gain a temporary bonus combat feat upon entering the style, and then being a full initiator also has the benefits of having significantly more maneuvers than a 6/9 initiator.

I am aware of its style feats. I am also aware of the benefits of being a full initiator as opposed to a partial initiator. I never advocated Fighter over Warlord. The only thing I said was that for a build wanting to push combat flexibility, Martial Master's Martial Flexibility was a bigger draw than Advanced Weapon Training Options.

When it comes to Initiators, I have my own prefences. I tend to be a fan of Warders because I enjoy using Counters quite a bit, and having Int be my initiating stat affords me skill points. Harbingers are great for playing mobile strikers. Mystics are a great Monk replacement.

Depending on how he truly envisions the character, maybe throwing the Bushi Class Template onto Warlord would do some good. Mythral Current has good counters, strikes that allow attacking at Close Range Increment, and Bushi let's him recover 1 manuevers a round as a free action so he can play a bit aggressively.

The problem with being "The Best" without further qualification leaves a build incredibly open ended. Is he an Einhander specialist, a Two Handed specialist, Sword and Shield specialist, a Dual Wielding specialist? Can he freely switch between all forms and still be "The Best"? Is he an aggressive fighter, a passive fighter, a reposter? Does he favor brute force or precision strikes? Does he prefer to stand his ground and let enemies come to him? Is he a mobile fighter who cuts through a battlefield like a hurricane?

All of these and more factor into a build and the suggestions one could give. As it is now, the query is very vague and any of us could argue our suggestion superior for any number of reasons.

[Khedrac]

Depending on how much 3.5 is allowed also check out Jack B Quick (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6944.0).

[Britsky]

"The World's Greatest Swordsman" probably an inappropriate character concept in a level based game.

In any campaign you are likely to run into another swordsman who is a greater swordsman than you were when you started (even if you are better than them now). Meaning you were not the world's greatest swordsman - you just though you were.

I know i know, it was somewhat of an exaggeration. I'm kinda just looking for ideas on what classes, feats, items etc would be a good idea for someone who wants to be as good with a sword as they can.
"killing dragons and armies" aren't specific goals just things to give a general idea of what I mean.

[wombat31]

Play exalted.😁

[BladeofObliviom]

Well, the Weapon Master's Handbook opened up some fun options for your glorious master swordsman to be awesome without necessarily needing to resort to a third-party initiating class. Some things that come to mind:

- Cut From the Air (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/weapon-mastery-feats/cut-from-the-air-weapon-mastery) (-> Smash from the Air (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/weapon-mastery-feats/smash-from-the-air-weapon-mastery) -> Spellcut (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spellcut)) is a preposterously powerful feat chain mostly only available to PF fighters, since it requires weapon training (this requirement can be met via another feat tax, but Fighters do it best for obvious reasons). Cut from the Air lets you use your AoOs to block arrows/bullets/thrown daggers/etc thrown at you or someone near you; Smash from the Air expands that to include weaponlike spells and things like ballista bolts or thrown boulders. Spellcut works a little differently, and gives you a 1/round ability to use your BAB instead of your normal save against a spell effect. Add combat reflexes and a decent dex score, and these make for a very effective defense.

- The Sharding (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/sharding) weapon enhancement is a handy boon for higher-level characters that can justify splurging a bit; if you're putting all your feats in swordfighting and being a melee fighter, there's an inherent limitation to your abilities in that you have to be in melee range to actually use all of those feats. Sharding lets you throw copies of your melee weapon around as a ranged attack, which benefits from all other enchantments on your melee weapon, as well as your weapon focuses and weapon training and such. Who needs a secondary weapon? Just throw your sword! It's better than throwing + returning because you can full attack at range with it. And of course, it's easy to flavor as a 'razor wind' or sword beam effect if it tickles your fancy.


- Not a WMH thing, but Maneuvers are extremely effective in the right hands; further, Maneuvers are way more interesting than just full attacking all the time. I'm fond of using the Dirty Fighting feat rather than picking up the various "Improved X" feats; You're going to want to be a flanking buddy for the party Rogue whenever you can anyway, and it requires a lot less feat investment if you're using a variety of maneuvers. You may be a master swordsman, but the best swordsmen don't just swing and hope for the best: They disarm their opponents, shove them around, go for the knees, and otherwise pull tricks.

- It's not to everyone's tastes, but I'm fond of dipping Monk with an archetype like Maneuver Master or Master of Many Styles. The benefits of having a monk level are notable: +2 to all saves, a prerequisite-free bonus feat, free IUS, etc. You lose a point of BAB, but the tradeoff can be worth it if it increases your versatility enough. This doesn't require you to be seriously playing a monk-like sort, since many monk abilities aren't actually impeded by armor. I have a character right now who wears full plate, and I still dipped the Monk level (albeit she uses unchained monk to save herself a BAB hit; I got special permission from the GM to use Master of Many Styles with Unchained Monk).



And as usual, remember that PF is still PF, and even if you're the glorious master swordsman, you're still going to want to use magical assistance. Don't forget to have some way to move in three dimensions (which should be flight past a certain point; climb alone just stops cutting it eventually), a way to deal with common problems like caltrops/difficult terrain/forcecage, magically-enhanced senses, and so on. Martials in PF in general need their equipment more than Casters to keep up, so don't be afraid to gear up with the good stuff. All the swordsmanship in the world won't help if you're stuck on the ground fighting harpy archers or something.

[Britsky]

Well, the Weapon Master's Handbook opened up some fun options for your glorious master swordsman to be awesome without necessarily needing to resort to a third-party initiating class. Some things that come to mind:

- Cut From the Air (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/weapon-mastery-feats/cut-from-the-air-weapon-mastery) (-> Smash from the Air (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/weapon-mastery-feats/smash-from-the-air-weapon-mastery) -> Spellcut (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spellcut)) is a preposterously powerful feat chain mostly only available to PF fighters, since it requires weapon training (this requirement can be met via another feat tax, but Fighters do it best for obvious reasons). Cut from the Air lets you use your AoOs to block arrows/bullets/thrown daggers/etc thrown at you or someone near you; Smash from the Air expands that to include weaponlike spells and things like ballista bolts or thrown boulders. Spellcut works a little differently, and gives you a 1/round ability to use your BAB instead of your normal save against a spell effect. Add combat reflexes and a decent dex score, and these make for a very effective defense.

- The Sharding (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/sharding) weapon enhancement is a handy boon for higher-level characters that can justify splurging a bit; if you're putting all your feats in swordfighting and being a melee fighter, there's an inherent limitation to your abilities in that you have to be in melee range to actually use all of those feats. Sharding lets you throw copies of your melee weapon around as a ranged attack, which benefits from all other enchantments on your melee weapon, as well as your weapon focuses and weapon training and such. Who needs a secondary weapon? Just throw your sword! It's better than throwing + returning because you can full attack at range with it. And of course, it's easy to flavor as a 'razor wind' or sword beam effect if it tickles your fancy.


- Not a WMH thing, but Maneuvers are extremely effective in the right hands; further, Maneuvers are way more interesting than just full attacking all the time. I'm fond of using the Dirty Fighting feat rather than picking up the various "Improved X" feats; You're going to want to be a flanking buddy for the party Rogue whenever you can anyway, and it requires a lot less feat investment if you're using a variety of maneuvers. You may be a master swordsman, but the best swordsmen don't just swing and hope for the best: They disarm their opponents, shove them around, go for the knees, and otherwise pull tricks.

- It's not to everyone's tastes, but I'm fond of dipping Monk with an archetype like Maneuver Master or Master of Many Styles. The benefits of having a monk level are notable: +2 to all saves, a prerequisite-free bonus feat, free IUS, etc. You lose a point of BAB, but the tradeoff can be worth it if it increases your versatility enough. This doesn't require you to be seriously playing a monk-like sort, since many monk abilities aren't actually impeded by armor. I have a character right now who wears full plate, and I still dipped the Monk level (albeit she uses unchained monk to save herself a BAB hit; I got special permission from the GM to use Master of Many Styles with Unchained Monk).



And as usual, remember that PF is still PF, and even if you're the glorious master swordsman, you're still going to want to use magical assistance. Don't forget to have some way to move in three dimensions (which should be flight past a certain point; climb alone just stops cutting it eventually), a way to deal with common problems like caltrops/difficult terrain/forcecage, magically-enhanced senses, and so on. Martials in PF in general need their equipment more than Casters to keep up, so don't be afraid to gear up with the good stuff. All the swordsmanship in the world won't help if you're stuck on the ground fighting harpy archers or something.

Some good advice here, thanks.
I certainly agree on the movement front, i normally try to be as mundane as i can, but i think for this i definitely want to be magicking it up, mid air sword battles and such.

[Calthropstu]

Obviously the class you want to go with is *BARD* (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2CR2HaPq24&t=5m45s). :smallamused:

This is not the greatest sword in the world, no this is just a tribute...