Game of Thrones Board Game: Balance

[VoxRationis]

I recently acquired the Game of Thrones board game, and though I have not had the opportunity to play an actual game with other people as of this moment, I've run through some games against myself. In such games, I have noticed that the Lannister starting position is extremely vulnerable. The immediate naval superiority of House Greyjoy gives them a terrifying advantage in the fights for the valuable territories in the middle of the map, and their tie-breaking advantage in unit strength means that the Lannister force will be hard-pressed to achieve primacy in any battle (even assuming that the Tyrells and the Baratheons aren't attacking them from the opposite flank). This is compounded with the fact that the leader cards for Lannister largely don't allow for a strong defense; the only unit-preserving card they have is Tyrion. By contrast, Greyjoy cards include one which negates enemy leader strength (allowing them to commit as little as possible to a battle, the better to distribute forces elsewhere) and one which increases ship strength, allowing them to play to their strengths right from the beginning. In short, House Lannister ends up comparing to Austria from Diplomacy, sandwiched between powerful enemies and in particular pressed up against a foe that can attack it from the beginning, but which it has difficulty attacking in return.

Is there some aspect of actual play which evens the scales a little here, or is there some strategic consideration that I have not made?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Their starting position was actually worse in 1st Edition, believe it or not! They didn't have the option to retreat their fleet into a port, so they typically just ate it from Greyjoy. (Also, make sure that the games you followed were from 2nd Edition. That was a very meaningful buff to the Lannisters.)

Lannister's biggest advantage is having access to star orders (which Greyjoy has none of), including ones like March +1. You have to very carefully use those to maintain a small hold against Greyjoy. And if you can force out their stronger leader cards early, they'll really suffer against the other Houses.

[Dienekes]

Yeah I've only played the game a handful of times but it's been an ongoing joke among my friends whoever created the game really overestimated how important the Iron Islands are to the setting.

[VoxRationis]

I think I have 1st edition, because the board has no ports on it and the rules explicitly say that ships can't go onto land. It also has Greyjoy starting at the 4th position, rather than 5th, on the King's Court track. I'm not sure how I got my hands on a 1st edition game, considering it was practically new when I got it a couple of weeks ago.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Huh. Yeah. That'll definitely be a hard one for the Lannisters. I'm not sure off the top of my head if there's any good houserules that people have devised to give them a bit of a boost, because it's definitely a hard time for them for exactly those reasons.

Also, apparently there's an official errata which says you can switch Greyjoy and Tyrell on the King's Court track (https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/a_game_of_thrones_the_board_game/media/agotfaq.pdf). Doesn't solve all of Lannister's problems, but it probably helps.

As you might surmise, this gets a lot of discussion on BoardGameGeek. This seems to be a nicely comprehensive thread of suggested houserules. (https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/431261/how-lannister-has-not-lost-turn-0)

[Fri]

I recently acquired the Game of Thrones board game, and though I have not had the opportunity to play an actual game with other people as of this moment, I've run through some games against myself. In such games, I have noticed that the Lannister starting position is extremely vulnerable. The immediate naval superiority of House Greyjoy gives them a terrifying advantage in the fights for the valuable territories in the middle of the map, and their tie-breaking advantage in unit strength means that the Lannister force will be hard-pressed to achieve primacy in any battle (even assuming that the Tyrells and the Baratheons aren't attacking them from the opposite flank). This is compounded with the fact that the leader cards for Lannister largely don't allow for a strong defense; the only unit-preserving card they have is Tyrion. By contrast, Greyjoy cards include one which negates enemy leader strength (allowing them to commit as little as possible to a battle, the better to distribute forces elsewhere) and one which increases ship strength, allowing them to play to their strengths right from the beginning. In short, House Lannister ends up comparing to Austria from Diplomacy, sandwiched between powerful enemies and in particular pressed up against a foe that can attack it from the beginning, but which it has difficulty attacking in return.

Is there some aspect of actual play which evens the scales a little here, or is there some strategic consideration that I have not made?

My group played the heck out of the game for years, and we decide more or less the game is balanced. But only if there's exactly 6 players, so we only play it when there's exactly six of us. And you have to remember the starting position and such (not everyone can muster or use the extra order at the beginning, and lannister can. IIRC, Greyjoy can't, they're low at all three positions, so actually I think they're in disadvantage here.)

Yes, the lannisters are precariously positioned, but you must take account that there are other players than you, and other people must fight each others as well. If everyone focus on you, well you're screwed, but who wouldn't? In fact, if you doesn't look strong and feel like the underdog, other people might actually help you against whoever is threathening you right now.

In my experience, Greyjoy's strategy is that they have to be on the offensive immediately, but if you manage to destroy their army early on, they'll have hard time recovering (they need to better their position or have the mustering board event happened first) so you can easily turn it against them and basically have an anti greyjoy strategy of attacking them first and winning (you can more easily recover, they can't).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Worth noting that you only play 6 players with the added Clash of Kings expansion. Base GoT 1st Edition doesn't include Martell.

Unfortunately, Clash of Kings is (like all the 1st-Edition expansions) pretty hard to find.

[VoxRationis]

My group played the heck out of the game for years, and we decide more or less the game is balanced. But only if there's exactly 6 players, so we only play it when there's exactly six of us. And you have to remember the starting position and such (not everyone can muster or use the extra order at the beginning, and lannister can. IIRC, Greyjoy can't, they're low at all three positions, so actually I think they're in disadvantage here.)

"Not everyone can muster at the beginning?" What do you mean? No one can muster at the beginning; you don't draw Westeros cards on the first turn, right?

[Fri]

those with star crown tokens can.

edit: wait, are you talking about first edition or second edition? Because if you talk about first edition, I actually know nothing about it, I just thought defaultly everyone are playing the second edition now.

[VoxRationis]

Apparently, not all of us. Somehow.

Edit: In 1st edition, you only muster when a particular Westeros card is drawn.

[Fri]

Yeah sorry. Should've read the thread more carefully :smallredface:

[VoxRationis]

Has anyone tried removing one of the Greyjoy land units to compensate for the extra ship?