Character Options for the Faithful [PEACH]

[DracoKnight]

So with the most recent Unearthed Arcana (http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA%20Non-Divine%20Faithful%20SFG.pdf) we got some interesting character options, and I liked that they tried, but I am not personally a fan of the Theurgy Wizard or the Seeker Warlock. I also didn't think that they created enough class options - personally I would've given something to the bard, fighter, and (something different) to the Warlock. Frustrated by the lack of presented options (and disappointed by the ones that they DID present), I've created my own support for deities' devotees (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SymFp9Xege). I think that they're mostly balanced, but I would appreciate help fine tuning them :smallsmile:

[The Zoat]

Angel Patron is insane. The level 1 dip into a paladin is obscenely good. You get up to 21(!) AC unarmoured and unshielded. Even a pure class Angel Patron Bladelock is great Dealing two 2d6+5+1d4+5 attacks. This patron is crazily front-loaded, a dull 14th level feature can't compensate for such a mathematically ridiculous level 1(!) feature.

Sword of the Starry Skies is fair.

Temple Knight's push-power might be excessive.

Healing Hymn may be too good.

[DracoKnight]

Angel Patron is insane. The level 1 dip into a paladin is obscenely good. You get up to 21(!) AC unarmoured and unshielded.

Oh. Crap...it's supposed to be 10 + DEX mod + CHA mod. Fixed it. I've been typing out Save DC calcs all day :smalltongue:


Even a pure class Angel Patron Bladelock is great Dealing two 2d6+5+1d4+5 attacks. This patron is crazily front-loaded, a dull 14th level feature can't compensate for such a mathematically ridiculous level 1(!) feature.

Hmmm...I'll probably rework the 6th level feature then...

EDIT: where is that 2nd +5 coming from? Thristing blade at 12th level?


Sword of the Starry Skies is fair.

Excellent.


Temple Knight's push-power might be excessive.

I will look into this.


Healing Hymn may be too good.

Alright.

[khadgar567]

angel patron feels good but 10th feature needs buffing

[JNAProductions]

Song of the Divines is a little powerful, since it scales doubly. On the other hand, it only surpasses Firebolt around 17th level or so, so not a big deal. Just something to bear in mind.

Healing Hymn-does it work on just one target? Or every target affected by the spell? Either way, probably balanced, but needs to be specified.

Angelic Voice... Hrm. I want to see it playtested, but I think it's okay.



Wrath of the Gods is fine.

Guardian's Strike should, honestly, not have a size limitation. However, it should specify that it only procs on Wrath of the Gods damage, on a FAILED saving throw. Otherwise, Magic Initiate for Sacred Flame lets you push at-will.

Divine Strike is OP. Improved Divine Smite is needed on the Paladin, because it only has 2 attacks. On the Fighter, which has 1.5-2 times as many? And scaling up to 2d8 at level 14? And always proccing Guardian's Strike? Nerf it, hard.

Heavenly Agent is fine.

Divine Presence is fine.



Celestial Body is pretty dang nice for a dip for any Charisma based class... Playtest it, see if it's too open for abuse.

Angelic Weapon seems fine, on the Warlock chassis. Even mixed with 11 levels of Fighter, it's not that bad.

Blessing of the Angel... My gut wants to say it's too powerful, and it probably is. Ancient Paladins get resistance to damage, not generic Spell Resistance. I'd nerf this.



Sword of the Starry Skies has WAY TOO MUCH synergy with the Fighter Archetype. Make the suggested change to Guardian's strike, though, and it should be fine.


angel patron feels good but 10th feature needs buffing

No, it really doesn't. That is CRAZY USEFUL. It needs nerfing, not buffing.

[khadgar567]

Song of the Divines is a little powerful, since it scales doubly. On the other hand, it only surpasses Firebolt around 17th level or so, so not a big deal. Just something to bear in mind.

Healing Hymn-does it work on just one target? Or every target affected by the spell? Either way, probably balanced, but needs to be specified.

Angelic Voice... Hrm. I want to see it playtested, but I think it's okay.



Wrath of the Gods is fine.

Guardian's Strike should, honestly, not have a size limitation. However, it should specify that it only procs on Wrath of the Gods damage, on a FAILED saving throw. Otherwise, Magic Initiate for Sacred Flame lets you push at-will.

Divine Strike is OP. Improved Divine Smite is needed on the Paladin, because it only has 2 attacks. On the Fighter, which has 1.5-2 times as many? And scaling up to 2d8 at level 14? And always proccing Guardian's Strike? Nerf it, hard.

Heavenly Agent is fine.

Divine Presence is fine.



Celestial Body is pretty dang nice for a dip for any Charisma based class... Playtest it, see if it's too open for abuse.

Angelic Weapon seems fine, on the Warlock chassis. Even mixed with 11 levels of Fighter, it's not that bad.

Blessing of the Angel... My gut wants to say it's too powerful, and it probably is. Ancient Paladins get resistance to damage, not generic Spell Resistance. I'd nerf this.



Sword of the Starry Skies has WAY TOO MUCH synergy with the Fighter Archetype. Make the suggested change to Guardian's strike, though, and it should be fine.



No, it really doesn't. That is CRAZY USEFUL. It needs nerfing, not buffing.
you are the exper jna but for me only thing say grab it is angelic body and I realy want to know how I can keep it while i change patron

[DracoKnight]

Song of the Divines is a little powerful, since it scales doubly. On the other hand, it only surpasses Firebolt around 17th level or so, so not a big deal. Just something to bear in mind.

I'll keep an eye on it in playtest.


Healing Hymn-does it work on just one target? Or every target affected by the spell? Either way, probably balanced, but needs to be specified.

The intent is for it to apply to each target, but if it's too strong, I can change that.


Angelic Voice... Hrm. I want to see it playtested, but I think it's okay.

This feature I actually have playtested, as I built this archetype backwards, it's a pretty okay feature. It allows the Cantor to do something other bards can't, and gives a small bump to one of the weakest roles in 5e (healing).


Wrath of the Gods is fine.

Coolio.


Guardian's Strike should, honestly, not have a size limitation. However, it should specify that it only procs on Wrath of the Gods damage, on a FAILED saving throw. Otherwise, Magic Initiate for Sacred Flame lets you push at-will.

Yes...that's true...hmmmmm. It's based off mechanics from the Tempest Cleric. If it's too good, I can potentially change it up.


Divine Strike is OP. Improved Divine Smite is needed on the Paladin, because it only has 2 attacks. On the Fighter, which has 1.5-2 times as many? And scaling up to 2d8 at level 14? And always proccing Guardian's Strike? Nerf it, hard.

Is it too OP? Once per turn, and the averaged damage is less than the bump from GWM or SS, but I know the forum's opinion of these feats...


Heavenly Agent is fine.

Divine Presence is fine.

Awesome, I didn't think that there would be a problem here.


Celestial Body is pretty dang nice for a dip for any Charisma based class... Playtest it, see if it's too open for abuse.

It works just fine - it's no worse than a monk dip for Wisdom based classes.


Angelic Weapon seems fine, on the Warlock chassis. Even mixed with 11 levels of Fighter, it's not that bad.

Excellent.


Blessing of the Angel... My gut wants to say it's too powerful, and it probably is. Ancient Paladins get resistance to damage, not generic Spell Resistance. I'd nerf this.

I'd almost rate the Aura of Warding higher than this, personally. Because that gives you resistance, even if you succeed, cutting the damage taken to 1/4 the total. And to ALL ALLIES within 10 (later 30) feet. This does allow you to resist things like charm and fear more easily, but I thought it was okay. If it's not, then I'll change it to something more like AoW.


Sword of the Starry Skies has WAY TOO MUCH synergy with the Fighter Archetype. Make the suggested change to Guardian's strike, though, and it should be fine.

It's not currently available on the Fighter...? I guess through Magic Initiate, or Multiclassing, but...hmmmmmm... I'll look into this.

[JNAProductions]

Okay-the once per turn restriction on the bonus damage was NOT clear. I thought it was on EVERY attack.

At once per turn, it's fine.

[DracoKnight]

Okay-the once per turn restriction on the bonus damage was NOT clear. I thought it was on EVERY attack.

At once per turn, it's fine.

Yup, once per turn.

Do you have any more nitpicks/major glaring issues I somehow missed? I'm bored and trapped in a godawful 8am class :/

[JNAProductions]

I do feel that the Unarmored Defense for Charisma is a little much. More classes benefit from it, and they benefit more from it. I dunno-I did the same thing with my Oath of Nudity, so I guess it's good.

[DracoKnight]

I do feel that the Unarmored Defense for Charisma is a little much. More classes benefit from it, and they benefit more from it. I dunno-I did the same thing with my Oath of Nudity, so I guess it's good.

I will keep an eye on it as we move forward in playtest after I make your recommended tweaks.


Oath of Nudity

I still get a kick out of this class. I have an OoN rolled up and ready to go for an unsuspecting DM (all the DMs in my group approved it, they're just unaware I intend to play one).

[Requiemforlust]

The Bard and Warlock look fine, play test to clarify, though - and we made the fighter over a year ago. The fighter is fine in play - my group has been using it since its creation. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it's not really better than the EK, in the experience of my table; if anything the EK is better loved at my table by power gamers and munchkins.

[GandalfTheWhite]

Having played the Temple Knight for the last 6 months, it's pretty good, but not OP. Its push power is basically Repelling Blast, but with a restriction that should have been on RB. I love the ability to deal radiant damage and being kind of a mini-Paladin who gets angel wings at 14th level.

We're playtesting the bard and warlock tonight in a 20th level one shot - I'll let you know how it goes!

[DracoKnight]

We're playtesting the bard and warlock tonight in a 20th level one shot - I'll let you know how it goes!

Let me know how it goes!

[GandalfTheWhite]

Also, personally, I think that sword of the starry skies is better balanced than the other gish cantrips. Yes, it has the potential to do 8d8 like the officially published ones, but you're a fighter with magic initiate fighting fiends and undead to get that. Most classes will have 4d8 against fiends and undead. It's basically a sunblade without the +2 that you can have from level 1. And let's be honest, the cool thing about the sunblade is not the +2, it's the fact that you're wielding a freaking lightsaber.

[DracoKnight]

Also, personally, I think that sword of the starry skies is better balanced than the other gish cantrips. Yes, it has the potential to do 8d8 like the officially published ones, but you're a fighter with magic initiate fighting fiends and undead to get that. Most classes will have 4d8 against fiends and undead. It's basically a sunblade without the +2 that you can have from level 1. And let's be honest, the cool thing about the sunblade is not the +2, it's the fact that you're wielding a freaking lightsaber.

Excellent, I'm glad it's balanced!

[DracoKnight]

Are there any further comments or thoughts as to balance?

[GandalfTheWhite]

Are there any further comments or thoughts as to balance?

For bards, the College of the Cantor lags behind the Lore Bard, but it pulls ahead of the Valor Bard in terms of overall usefulness, and power.

The Angelic Patron Warlock is on par with the Fiend Patron in terms of making a decent Bladelock.

The Fighter's pretty good, not OP, but good.

My group playtested all of them last week, and they should be fine.

I'd drop the extra damage against fiends and undead with sword of the starry skies, because as is, you can pair it up with a green-flame blade, or one of the myriad other melee cantrips both published and designed by you, which makes it really good.

[DracoKnight]

For bards, the College of the Cantor lags behind the Lore Bard, but it pulls ahead of the Valor Bard in terms of overall usefulness, and power.

The Angelic Patron Warlock is on par with the Fiend Patron in terms of making a decent Bladelock.

The Fighter's pretty good, not OP, but good.

My group playtested all of them last week, and they should be fine.

I'd drop the extra damage against fiends and undead with sword of the starry skies, because as is, you can pair it up with a green-flame blade, or one of the myriad other melee cantrips both published and designed by you, which makes it really good.

Thanks for your feedback, I have altered sword of the starry skies.

[DracoKnight]

Any further comments?

[DracoKnight]

Are there any other "Holy Subclasses" that people want to see?

[GandalfTheWhite]

Are there any other "Holy Subclasses" that people want to see?

A Holy Rager Barbarian could be cool.

[clash]

I would limit Angelic strike to not apply to cantrips. EB doesnt need any more extra damage.

[TundraBuccaneer]

Ranger: I smelled your stench from a mile away, now feel the justice of the true god Nicolas Cage. Oh yes definitely the bee's.

[DracoKnight]

I would limit Angelic strike to not apply to cantrips. EB doesnt need any more extra damage.

Right. I'll fix that. I'm actually working on a just about complete rebalancing of that particular subclass, anyway.


Ranger: I smelled your stench from a mile away, now feel the justice of the true god Nicolas Cage. Oh yes definitely the bee's.

Maybe as a Villain Class...because that's terrifying...

[TundraBuccaneer]

Maybe as a Villain Class...because that's terrifying...

O_o A warlock whose patron is Nic Cage mask of many faces as face of, insect swarm as an class spell, etc.

Back to topic a religious Ranger would be cool maybe based around nature/life gods or demon/undead hunting.