Enemy movement and PC hidden status

[Corran]

Assume the PC is invisible and successfully hidden from a nearby enemy. On his turn, the enemy moves in a way that includes movng through the PC's space.

Question 1: Can the PC allow the enemy to pass through his space without interposing himself should he choose to do that? (Considering that he can do that for allies, I personaly do not see why he couldn't do that for enemies, but I would like to hear more opinions on that).

Question 2: Assuming the answer to question 1 is yes (ie the PC can let the enemy move freely through his space), does the enemy's movemet allow for some chance that the enemy will realise the PC is in that square? (Couldn't find any RAW on this, I was thinking of houseruling that the hidden PC must succeed at a DEX save with DC 10, to avoid being detected during that enemy's movement. How would you rule this?).

Question 3: What happens if the enemy plans (unknowingly) to end his movement at the exact square where the hidden PC is standing? (Does the enemy automatically realise that the hidden PC is there? Does the PC have to roll some check/save to avoid coming in touch with the enemy and thus to mantain his hidden status? I was thinking of a dex save with a DC of 15-20 for the PC to keep his hidden status, but I am not sure if that dex save (if successful) would indicate a tumble to an adjacent square, or if the PC stays where he is and counts as squeezing in that space). Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[ad_hoc]

If a creature moves in such a way that the obscurement that allowed the PC to hide is no longer relevant, then that PC is no longer hidden from that creature.

If we are talking about a case of invisibility or the like I would handle it like I would if there was darkness and one creature had darkvision.

Yes, I would allow the PC to allow the other creature through their space, but there would be some sort of check to remain hidden.

[MrFahrenheit]

If a creature moves in such a way that the obscurement that allowed the PC to hide is no longer relevant, then that PC is no longer hidden from that creature.

If we are talking about a case of invisibility or the like I would handle it like I would if there was darkness and one creature had darkvision.

Yes, I would allow the PC to allow the other creature through their space, but there would be some sort of check to remain hidden.

I have to agree with this. It's all RAI. FWIW, I'd work the invisibility quesion as follows:

-If the PC still has at least ten feet of movement from his previous turn left over, and there is a free adjacent space I'd allow a "sidestep" back and forth as a reaction.
-If the PC doesn't have enough movement left over, or doesn't want to use it, they can instead use their reaction to roll stealth vs the enemy's perception. If the enemy is aware that there's an invisible PC in play, the bad guy has advantage on the roll. PC's roll is standard (barring any situational circumstances).

[Joe the Rat]

I concur. I'd have the invisible player roll Stealth to see if he can get out of the way smoothly and quietly. I'm debating if it should require a reaction on the part of the invisible one.

[dickerson76]

Keep in mind for question one, that even when you allow an ally through your space, it is still difficult terrain for them. Therefore, allowing an enemy the same privilege would invoke the same penalty, giving them a clue that the PC was still there.

With that in mind, I would allow the PC to use their reaction to make an additional stealth check to move 5' if the enemy tried to enter their square (DC 10). Failure means the enemy's movement is stopped and they become aware that the PC is there. As ad_hoc noted, if at any time during this the PC loses whatever concealment is allowing the stealth check, the enemy notices them at that time.

[smcmike]

I was just thinking about this exact question. Call it the "Bilbo at the Goblin Gate" problem.

The premise of the question indicates that this movement is happening during combat. Out of combat, it would be a lot easier to adjudicate, I think - you can basically handle it however you like, and I think in an open area it should be relatively easy for one alert invisible person to avoid the path of one unaware enemy. This is complicated by terrain and noise, of course.

In combat, it's not so simple. If the character really wants to avoid the enemy, they should ready an action to move out of the way. That seems about right - it takes effort to stay hidden. In a situation where they are doing other things with their action, they run the risk of being run into.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd make two rolls happen: An acrobatics roll (DC 15?) for the PC to avoid physically bumping into the enemy, and a stealth check (against the enemy's passive awareness plus 5 to represent disadvantage). If either check fails, then the enemy is alerted to the PC's presence in that square.

[ad_hoc]

I concur. I'd have the invisible player roll Stealth to see if he can get out of the way smoothly and quietly. I'm debating if it should require a reaction on the part of the invisible one.

Yes, I think this is exactly what having a reaction is for.

[Plaguescarred]

Question 1: Can the PC allow the enemy to pass through his space without interposing himself should he choose to do that? (Considering that he can do that for allies, I personaly do not see why he couldn't do that for enemies, but I would like to hear more opinions on that).RAW no as as the rules on Moving Around Other Creatures doesn't allow a creature to let an enemy in it's space.


Question 2: Assuming the answer to question 1 is yes (ie the PC can let the enemy move freely through his space), does the enemy's movemet allow for some chance that the enemy will realise the PC is in that square? (Couldn't find any RAW on this, I was thinking of houseruling that the hidden PC must succeed at a DEX save with DC 10, to avoid being detected during that enemy's movement. How would you rule this?).RAW moving into a hidden creature's space doesn't let you notice it necessarily (FWIW 4E Stealth specifically did), but there might be clues that something is impeding your movement as the terrain would be difficult terrain (especially if it otherwise shouldn't as nothing indicate so i.e no tall grass or mud etc). It'd be DM call if it does and if a check is warranted but IMO another Perception vs Stealth contest woudln't be out of order.


Question 3: What happens if the enemy plans (unknowingly) to end his movement at the exact square where the hidden PC is standing? (Does the enemy automatically realise that the hidden PC is there? Does the PC have to roll some check/save to avoid coming in touch with the enemy and thus to mantain his hidden status? I was thinking of a dex save with a DC of 15-20 for the PC to keep his hidden status, but I am not sure if that dex save (if successful) would indicate a tumble to an adjacent square, or if the PC stays where he is and counts as squeezing in that space). Thoughts?!RAW ending a move and thus occupying the same space as a hidden creature also doesn't let you notice it necessarily. It'd be DM call if it does and if a check is warranted. IMO another Perception vs Stealth contest woudln't be out of order. Also you normally can’t willingly end your move in another creature's space and while 5E lacks any further procedure on how to handle this, i'd use previous edition and say that if it was to happen, the creature would end his movement in the last space it can occupy. This would also give another clue that something is in there as you bump into it and stand back a couple of feet.

[Laserlight]

Off the top of my head:
Use your Reaction to make a DEX saving throw at a DC somehow based on the active foe's speed.
If you fail, the foe discovers you and can Shove.
If you succeed, you move out of the way. If you fail by 1 or 2, you may choose to succeed at the cost of going Prone. If you're a creature who can normally share a space, you may choose to do so, otherwise you move 5ft. The foe makes a Perception check to see if he discovers you; he has advantage if he's trying to find you (ie waving his arms around) rather than just moving around in combat in a way that happens to intercept you.

[Vogonjeltz]

Assume the PC is invisible and successfully hidden from a nearby enemy. On his turn, the enemy moves in a way that includes movng through the PC's space.

Question 1: Can the PC allow the enemy to pass through his space without interposing himself should he choose to do that? (Considering that he can do that for allies, I personaly do not see why he couldn't do that for enemies, but I would like to hear more opinions on that).

Question 2: Assuming the answer to question 1 is yes (ie the PC can let the enemy move freely through his space), does the enemy's movemet allow for some chance that the enemy will realise the PC is in that square? (Couldn't find any RAW on this, I was thinking of houseruling that the hidden PC must succeed at a DEX save with DC 10, to avoid being detected during that enemy's movement. How would you rule this?).

Question 3: What happens if the enemy plans (unknowingly) to end his movement at the exact square where the hidden PC is standing? (Does the enemy automatically realise that the hidden PC is there? Does the PC have to roll some check/save to avoid coming in touch with the enemy and thus to mantain his hidden status? I was thinking of a dex save with a DC of 15-20 for the PC to keep his hidden status, but I am not sure if that dex save (if successful) would indicate a tumble to an adjacent square, or if the PC stays where he is and counts as squeezing in that space). Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Q1: If the PC used the Ready action to move in those circumstances and could see the circumstances occur (i.e. not in total darkness where neither party can see), yes they could get out of the way. If not, the enemy would collide and know there's something there.

Q2: Assuming the PC had a readied action to move, they would have to stealth while they did it, requiring a second Dexterity (Stealth) check contested by the enemies Wisdom (Perception) score. Saves are to resist poisons, diseases, traps, spells, and things of a similar nature. Escaping notice isn't a thing of a similar nature.

Q3: They would run into the PC and know there's someone/thing there even if they can't see it because of circumstances.