Ranger / Cleric, but what Cleric Domain?

[jaappleton]

So I'm thinking of a Ranger character, an archer. It'd utilize the Deep Stalker Ranger archetype from this Unearthed Arcana article:

https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/02_UA_Underdark_Characters.pdf


Now, going Ranger 5 nets me the following, as a Variant Human:
Sharpshooter (v. human)
Archery Style
Dex and Strength saving throws
Three attacks in an opening round (two normally due to Extra attack)
Ability to hide as a bonus action
2nd level Ranger spells (Pass without trace to help hide)
Darkvision (AWESOME for a human)


Not bad at all for five levels.

Now add in Cleric

Third level Cleric spells
Bless to mitigate the -5 penalty of Sharpshooter, even with advantage from hiding to ensure hits
Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action attack (If I don't Hide as a bonus action)
Decent healing

Assuming 20 dex, and a +1 bow, with Archery style, that's +12 to hit, and Bless is another +1d4 and I anticipate a lot of Advantage due to hiding as a bonus action. Longbow is 1d8 + 5 (Dex) + 10 (sharpshooter), so 19.5*2, or 39 dpr. Admittedly not spectacular, but quite respectable given the versatility.

Now, the question is, what Cleric Domain would work best here?


I really like Tempest: Shatter scales very well when you consider maximizing its damage via Tempest channel divinity. Rangers get Lightning Arrow at lv9, and maxx'd Shatter at lv2 is 24 damage. That's pretty great, so its AoE is fairly competitive and arguably better (I think, check my math, please) than Lightning Arrow. And going Cleric another level nets me two uses of CD per short rest, getting further usage of Shatter.

Light Domain gets Faerie Fire, a favorite spell of mine, though I surmise I'll have Advantage enough without it, and its Concentration and competes with Bless. Fireball is fire, and highly resisted, and is 3rd level as opposed to Shatter's 2nd level (though a larger area). They also get Warding Flare, though I don't anticipate being hit much while attacking from Stealth (though using it to help my allies at Cleric 6 is appealing). But it's CD isn't so hot with me being multiclassed.

Which route would be better? What am I missing? Is there another Cleric domain that's a better option?

[Specter]

For Sharpshooter? I'd go War, definitely. Level 1 feature gives you more attacks, and level 2 makes sure you hit when you need. Crusader's Mantle is also great.

[jaappleton]

For Sharpshooter? I'd go War, definitely. Level 1 feature gives you more attacks, and level 2 makes sure you hit when you need. Crusader's Mantle is also great.

War's extra attacks utilize bonus actions and if I can always nab Crossbow Expert instead. Crusader's Mantle also adds 1d4 while I'd still have the Ranger's Hunters Mark at only a first level spell, as opposed to third level. Plus it's domain spells last the ranged AoE punch (spirit guardians is GREAT but I'd be an Archer)

[Specter]

War's extra attacks utilize bonus actions and if I can always nab Crossbow Expert instead. Crusader's Mantle also adds 1d4 while I'd still have the Ranger's Hunters Mark at only a first level spell, as opposed to third level. Plus it's domain spells last the ranged AoE punch (spirit guardians is GREAT but I'd be an Archer)

I wasn't aware you'd go for Crossbow Expert. In that case, pass. And remember, Crusader's Mantle is for all allies within 30 feet of you.

[jaappleton]

I wasn't aware you'd go for Crossbow Expert. In that case, pass. And remember, Crusader's Mantle is for all allies within 30 feet of you.

I don't really plan on going Crossbow Expert, but I think it's a good option to have down the road. I find the advantage of Hiding as a bonus action for advantage to hit, and disadvantage on attacks against me to be too appealing. To me, giving up a potential third attack for consistent advantage on the first two is worth it. If necessary, Spiritual Weapon exists for times when I can't hide.

[Citan]

So I'm thinking of a Ranger character, an archer. It'd utilize the Deep Stalker Ranger archetype from this Unearthed Arcana article:

https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/02_UA_Underdark_Characters.pdf


Now, going Ranger 5 nets me the following, as a Variant Human:
Sharpshooter (v. human)
Archery Style
Dex and Strength saving throws
Three attacks in an opening round (two normally due to Extra attack)
Ability to hide as a bonus action
2nd level Ranger spells (Pass without trace to help hide)
Darkvision (AWESOME for a human)

Now, the question is, what Cleric Domain would work best here?


I really like Tempest: Shatter scales very well when you consider maximizing its damage via Tempest channel divinity. Rangers get Lightning Arrow at lv9, and maxx'd Shatter at lv2 is 24 damage. That's pretty great, so its AoE is fairly competitive and arguably better (I think, check my math, please) than Lightning Arrow. And going Cleric another level nets me two uses of CD per short rest, getting further usage of Shatter.

Which route would be better? What am I missing? Is there another Cleric domain that's a better option?
Hi!
Well, to be honest, Ranged weapon build is nearly totally orthogonal to Cleric features and spells.
So the basic answer would be "whichever you'd prefer", at least if you have a strong preference for one of them.

Now with that said, guessing you will go at least Cleric 9 (so lvl 6th feature online), my personal rating would be...

=== First place ex-aequo: Knowledge, Life, Arcana. ===
Each provide a very strong benefit.
- Knowledge is the most useful overall, because it means that most of the time you will have proficiency when it counts. Read Thoughts can be quite useful also.
- Life Cleric: you get your goto spell always prepared (Bless), but more importantly, you get the Life Goodberry cheese (and bonus on every other spell). Your party will love you. Also, the lvl 8 bonus radiant damage is good and works with ranged weapon attacks.
- Arcana: you get Magic Missile directly (which can be great in many situations), more importantly, you get hands on several good spells that are neither on Cleric nor on Ranger spelllist. The bad news though is you probably won't ever go high enough in Cleric to get lvl 9 spells so...
In short: Life if you're gonna be the support/healer, Arcana if you like the wizard spells, otherwise Knowledge.

=== 4th exaequo: Light, Tempest, Trickery ===
Light: sure, many things resist to fire, but still, they are far more creatures that DON'T resist it. As a Cleric, having a few direct damage spells is good. And the features are good: protection of yourself or ally, AOE radiant damage (CD).
Tempest: proficiencies are wasted by CD and features are good indeed, and you get Divine Strike. And nice catch the Lightning Arrows. ;)
Trickery: one of the less loved Domains, because it's usually hard to exploit. For you, a DEX based multiclass, it will do wonder: great self or party buffs (Mirror Image, Pass Without Trace, Blink, Polymorph), and an illusory self that acts as a conduit for your spells (don't undervalue this ;)) and gives advantages to your attacks. Can be great for you (especially depending on your DM call on "Cloak of Shadow" interaction with spells such as Spiritual Weapon: I'd rule that it doesn't break the invisibility but to each his own). To be honest, he was not far from being on the podium too. ;)

=== Honorable Mention: War, Nature ===
Nature is great in itself, notably for the resistance or elemental damage bonus, but all spells and CD are (logically) heavily plant-themed. Proficiencies also are wasted, and you can live perfectly without any Druid cantrip (although some are nice to have). So I feel the added value is not enough for your particular concept.
War : the good spells for you are Magic Weapon (competes with Bless) and Crusader's Mantle (only if other ranged characters near you). Beyond that, the abilities are directly useful for your build, but the resource limitation reduces their interest imo (especially since you will max DEX then take at least 1 feat. Meaning little space to max WIS).

Did not pass: Death Cleric.
Although the "Twinned Chill Touch" can be very fun, beyond that and the Blindness spell, nothing here will really benefit particularly your build.

Hope this will help you to decide (hint: TL;DR there is no "bad" choice except maybe Death, so choose what you would have fun with, don't think too much about mechanics).

[HoarsHalberd]

I don't really plan on going Crossbow Expert, but I think it's a good option to have down the road. I find the advantage of Hiding as a bonus action for advantage to hit, and disadvantage on attacks against me to be too appealing. To me, giving up a potential third attack for consistent advantage on the first two is worth it. If necessary, Spiritual Weapon exists for times when I can't hide.

I mean as a ranger you don't get hide as a bonus action until level 14, level 15 if you take a cleric dip, so you'll have a long time before you're able to use that.

[jaappleton]

I mean as a ranger you don't get hide as a bonus action until level 14, level 15 if you take a cleric dip, so you'll have a long time before you're able to use that.

I refer you to the Unearthed Arcana article that I linked in the beginning of my original post. Deep Stalker Rangers get to hide as a bonus action beginning at level 3.

[Biggstick]

=== First place ex-aequo: Knowledge, Life, Arcana. ===
Each provide a very strong benefit.
- Knowledge is the most useful overall, because it means that most of the time you will have proficiency when it counts. Read Thoughts can be quite useful also.
- Life Cleric: you get your goto spell always prepared (Bless), but more importantly, you get the Life Goodberry cheese (and bonus on every other spell). Your party will love you. Also, the lvl 8 bonus radiant damage is good and works with ranged weapon attacks.
- Arcana: you get Magic Missile directly (which can be great in many situations), more importantly, you get hands on several good spells that are neither on Cleric nor on Ranger spelllist. The bad news though is you probably won't ever go high enough in Cleric to get lvl 9 spells so...
In short: Life if you're gonna be the support/healer, Arcana if you like the wizard spells, otherwise Knowledge.

=== 4th exaequo: Light, Tempest, Trickery ===
Light: sure, many things resist to fire, but still, they are far more creatures that DON'T resist it. As a Cleric, having a few direct damage spells is good. And the features are good: protection of yourself or ally, AOE radiant damage (CD).
Tempest: proficiencies are wasted by CD and features are good indeed, and you get Divine Strike. And nice catch the Lightning Arrows. ;)
Trickery: one of the less loved Domains, because it's usually hard to exploit. For you, a DEX based multiclass, it will do wonder: great self or party buffs (Mirror Image, Pass Without Trace, Blink, Polymorph), and an illusory self that acts as a conduit for your spells (don't undervalue this ;)) and gives advantages to your attacks. Can be great for you (especially depending on your DM call on "Cloak of Shadow" interaction with spells such as Spiritual Weapon: I'd rule that it doesn't break the invisibility but to each his own). To be honest, he was not far from being on the podium too. ;)

=== Honorable Mention: War, Nature ===
Nature is great in itself, notably for the resistance or elemental damage bonus, but all spells and CD are (logically) heavily plant-themed. Proficiencies also are wasted, and you can live perfectly without any Druid cantrip (although some are nice to have). So I feel the added value is not enough for your particular concept.
War : the good spells for you are Magic Weapon (competes with Bless) and Crusader's Mantle (only if other ranged characters near you). Beyond that, the abilities are directly useful for your build, but the resource limitation reduces their interest imo (especially since you will max DEX then take at least 1 feat. Meaning little space to max WIS).


Will definitely agree that Life is a solid choice for party combat support, while Knowledge is great for party utility support. Arcana on the other hand is highly wasted with this build, as none of the features other then Arcane Eye are really all that useful to a Sharpshooting PC. Arcana also doesn't have the on weapon attack bonus from Cleric 8 going for it either (same is true of Knowledge, but you're not going that route for damage, more for utility).

Light definitely provides a nice little party friendly AOE, while providing you a bit of defense with Warding Flare, and giving you access to the Faerie Fire spell. This one is more to provide combat support, but in an offensive caster sort of way. Tempest is a meh choice as it more or less focuses on spell casting offense. This might be something you're looking for, it might not be. It does provide you a little bit more offense for your ranged attacks though, and that's always great. Trickery provides quite a few out of combat options, as well as extra mobility/utility (Dimension Door and Polymorph are great!). Blessing of the Trickster lets you help out that loud Paladin and prevents him from clanking down the hallway while Pass w/o Trace is up.

War and Nature are fantastic choices and it's for me to imagine how you rated them so low. Nature provides one of the best reactions at level 6, while providing variable elemental damage to your ranged attacks. The spells granted from Nature are a bit meh, but they still provide support for your allies (Plant Growth on the field of battle for an interesting way to stop opponents in their tracks). War is even better then Nature. Your Channel Divinity can turn those Sharpshooter misses into hits twice a short rest, plus you have a guaranteed magic weapon once you have Cleric 3. You'll pick up the bonus action attack when you really need to pour on the damage, and you even get a bit of extra damage on your attack rolls once you hit Cleric 8. The War domain itself is worth it for Magic weapon and it's Channel Divinity.

As for the OP, I think you need to know what you want out of the Cleric class before you choose a domain.

1. Do you want to purely increase your own damage? The War domain does that for you in a way none of the other domains do by offering you Channel Divinity twice a short rest (once Cleric level 6), always available Magic Weapon (once Cleric level 3), a few extra bonus action attacks per long rest, and extra damage on one attack per round (once Cleric level 8).
2. Do you want to support your allies outside combat or have increased utility? Trickery, Arcana, and Knowledge all fall into this realm. I'd recommend Trickery if combat utility is what you're looking for, as the extra damage, Channel Divinity, and misdirection capability of Trickery is useful in the right hands. Knowledge is definitely top of the list if you want outside combat utility, as the Expertise in two skills and mind reading+free suggestion twice a short rest is hard to beat. Arcana provides Arcane Eye and a bit of utility with being able to remove magic effects by healing someone.
3. Do you want to support your allies within combat? Life and Nature really take it here. I don't have to explain Life, but the extra radiant damage once you're Cleric 8 is a nice little combat addition to a combat support. Nature on the other hand provides a few utility spells and one of the best reactions for a party in the game at Cleric 6.
4. Do you want to support your allies with offensive spell casting in combat? Light and Tempest fit the bill here. Light will provide you Fireball, a friendly close AOE twice a short rest (at Cleric 6), and a bit of protection with Warding Flare. Tempest provides more offensive spell casting power with the Channel Divinity as well as a bit of extra damage on your attacks once you hit Cleric 8.

[jaappleton]

Thank you for the breakdowns of the Cleric domains! What is it about Nature where it seems to provide such defensive help... Nature Clerics and Ancients Paladins, such wonderful defense against magic.

However, I'm looking to either shoot stuff, or blow stuff up. Sharpshoot for single target damage, and have something else to provide respectable AoE at range. I believe the standard Cleric spell list offers plenty of Utility. And while Life Domain is absolutely stellar at what it does (Even only at Cleric 5, the Channel Divinity would still be pretty good for me), I'm a student in the school of, "If it's dead, it can't hurt anyone".

Though Ranger 5 / Life Cleric 5 makes me... It essentially makes me a Ranged Paladin, doesn't it? (Purely from a thematic perspective, not a mechanical one)

[Biggstick]

However, I'm looking to either shoot stuff, or blow stuff up. Sharpshoot for single target damage, and have something else to provide respectable AoE at range. I believe the standard Cleric spell list offers plenty of Utility. And while Life Domain is absolutely stellar at what it does (Even only at Cleric 5, the Channel Divinity would still be pretty good for me), I'm a student in the school of, "If it's dead, it can't hurt anyone".

Though Ranger 5 / Life Cleric 5 makes me... It essentially makes me a Ranged Paladin, doesn't it? (Purely from a thematic perspective, not a mechanical one)

Well every Cleric list includes the level 5 spell Flame Strike and the level 7 spell Fire Storm. These are the primary aoe spells available to every Cleric. As for domain based spells, your list drops quite a bit.

Tempest and Light Clerics fit this bill perfectly. Light Cleric is a bit more defensive/support minded with it's Warding Flare, Faerie Fire, and Fireball while Tempest is a bit more offensive/burst minded with the Channel Divinity + Shatter/Call Lightning combo, Destructive Wrath/knock back combo, and the Divine Strike to weapon attacks. Both have bursty potential while providing a little something different alongside the burst.

Unfortunately the "respectable" aoe damage that you're looking for from these domain choices probably won't be enough to deal with the things you're fighting by the time you gain access to them (Cleric level 3 and 5, PC level 8 and 10). Your DC for both save sets will likely be somewhere in the 13-15 area.

I'd also suggest a third option with Nature Cleric. They gain access to Spike Growth, a spell that can do an ok amount of damage (2d4 per 5' of movement, plus difficult terrain) if you can force your targets to move through it, as well as provides an area of denial to an enemy. You can also cast the spell prior to an engagement since it lasts for so long (10 minutes) and it will be hidden from the enemies view unless they succeed on a Perception check vs your spell save DC. While this isn't a Fireball or a Call Lightning in terms of damage, it does create a certain amount of ranged control against enemies at a pretty large range (150'). You'd also still have the Divine Strike with your choice of elemental damage at Cleric 8.

[djreynolds]

I think war and deep stalker go together well, if the whole party is out for revenge.

I like war cleric and divine favor, though only 1d4, its radiant and can be used on all attacks, such as the free attack from horde breaker, no switching targets with hunter's mark. And free archery strikes as a bonus action with SS. Very nice.


Since you will have an awesome dex and wis, a cheap dip a monk would be nice just for AC. 2 levels gives you 2 KI point and patient defense and step of the wind, rechargeable on a short rest.

I think it depends on what you are doing in combat when you're not shooting off arrows. Are you buffing the party, healing, back up melee? As long as that is your forte, perfect build.

And spiritual guardians is nice to have, have it casted and when players get in trouble they can come to you or you to them, especially good in narrow tunnels.

[Citan]

Arcana on the other hand is highly wasted with this build, as none of the features other then Arcane Eye are really all that useful to a Sharpshooting PC. Arcana also doesn't have the on weapon attack bonus from Cleric 8 going for it either (same is true of Knowledge, but you're not going that route for damage, more for utility).

Quoted Arcana as one of the best for the following reasons in fact.
1. Without knowing what his party is, being as versatile as possible is good. In that regard, Arcana is the domain bringing most to the table, with nearly all spells being unavailable to Cleric otherwise and bringing very good things. Of course, if there is a Wizard (or in a lesser fashion Sorcerer) you lose a good part of this value.
2. Wizard cantrips should not be sold short, especially if SCAG is allowed, but even then: a Shocking Grasp for example (with bonus damage) can be a good way to break off if an enemy comes close.
3. Magic Missile, especially at low levels on a half-caster with probably decent-but-no-more WIS, can do great things when you just really need to finish a creature RIGHT NOW.
4. Channel Divinity works great on a ranged build, since it basically prevents the targeted creature to ever come close. I see many potential applications here for a ranged build.
The main sad thing is that the lvl8 affects cantrips instead of weapon attacks, but well...

Compared to that, Nature's main benefit is the variable "protection"/"bonus damage" bit, since most of the spells can be learned by the Ranger anyways (although, indeed, much later than if he gets them by Cleric). But since he won't have as many spell slots, he would have to carefully think about how to spend them. ;)
I agree there are very good benefits though, as long as OP like the fluff (I very much like the "variable" aspect myself). ;)

[TheFlyingCleric]

Thank you for the breakdowns of the Cleric domains! What is it about Nature where it seems to provide such defensive help... Nature Clerics and Ancients Paladins, such wonderful defense against magic.

However, I'm looking to either shoot stuff, or blow stuff up. Sharpshoot for single target damage, and have something else to provide respectable AoE at range. I believe the standard Cleric spell list offers plenty of Utility. And while Life Domain is absolutely stellar at what it does (Even only at Cleric 5, the Channel Divinity would still be pretty good for me), I'm a student in the school of, "If it's dead, it can't hurt anyone".

Though Ranger 5 / Life Cleric 5 makes me... It essentially makes me a Ranged Paladin, doesn't it? (Purely from a thematic perspective, not a mechanical one)

If you're allies are dead, they can't hurt anyone. Healing word is a really good spell.

Additionally, the Domain spells for Life contain many of the really important spells that clerics will always have prepared.

[Mandragola]

For me, definitely War if you're doing a dip. Other options are better in different circumstances. The War priest attacks and channel divinity for sharpshooter fails.

I'm considering a similar character. Battlemaster Fighter rather than ranger. Cleric gives me divine favour, which is an interesting alternative to hunter's mark because it doesn't keep eating bonus actions to move around, and can potentially be cast before ambushing an enemy. I'm looking at something like Fighter 6 or 8 for dex 20 and maybe sharpshooter, then cleric 1-3, then rogue (assassin) 3, then back to fighter for the 3rd attack. I'm not exactly sure which order I'll take all the levels but I think fighter 1-5 will be first, for the second attack.

I'd have a good ambush. If I could put divine favour up first then on an ambush round I could have 7 shots, and they'd all crit. In theory that's 14D8+14D4+105 damage. 203 damage, if those all hit, before I start adding on superiority dice.

I keep looking at the ranger class but I struggle to find a way to do it that seems fun. The class sort of seems to end at level 5. Your damage is great for level 5, but pretty much capped from there on. And on the whole I worry that I'd find an archer a bit boring as you do kind of the same thing each turn. The battlemaster option can at least mess about frightening the bad guys, making them fall over and so on.

[jaappleton]

For me, definitely War if you're doing a dip. Other options are better in different circumstances. The War priest attacks and channel divinity for sharpshooter fails.

I'm considering a similar character. Battlemaster Fighter rather than ranger. Cleric gives me divine favour, which is an interesting alternative to hunter's mark because it doesn't keep eating bonus actions to move around, and can potentially be cast before ambushing an enemy. I'm looking at something like Fighter 6 or 8 for dex 20 and maybe sharpshooter, then cleric 1-3, then rogue (assassin) 3, then back to fighter for the 3rd attack. I'm not exactly sure which order I'll take all the levels but I think fighter 1-5 will be first, for the second attack.

I'd have a good ambush. If I could put divine favour up first then on an ambush round I could have 7 shots, and they'd all crit. In theory that's 14D8+14D4+105 damage. 203 damage, if those all hit, before I start adding on superiority dice.

I keep looking at the ranger class but I struggle to find a way to do it that seems fun. The class sort of seems to end at level 5. Your damage is great for level 5, but pretty much capped from there on. And on the whole I worry that I'd find an archer a bit boring as you do kind of the same thing each turn. The battlemaster option can at least mess about frightening the bad guys, making them fall over and so on.

It does cap out at 5, doesn't it? The archery aspect of it. I could continue Cleric to get another d8 once per turn.

Though I could dip Fighter 2, picking up Close Quarters Shooter style and Action Surge, and/or Rogue 3 for Assassinate to make the first round devastating.

Though I don't anticipate the campaign going past... Maybe levels 14-16.

On the subject of Shocking Grasp, remember that Tempest can cause Lightning damage as a reaction and push the enemy 10ft, if the enemy does manage to get to me.

[R.Shackleford]

Note

"Darkvision

Many creatures in fantasy gaming worlds, especially those that dwell underground, have darkvision.

Within a specified range, a creature with darkvision can see in darkness as if the darkness were dim light, so areas of darkness are only lightly obscured as far as that creature is concerned. However, the creature can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray."

"Dim light, also called shadows, creates a lightly obscured area. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of bright light, such as a torch, and surrounding darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also counts as dim light. A particularly brilliant full moon might bathe the land in dim light."

"A given area might be lightly or heavily obscured. In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight."

I would go with the Skulker feat if you are using the darkvision spell.

[Mandragola]

Well as I said, I think war priest makes the best dip. Other varieties of cleric arguably make more sense if you you plan a proper career as a cleric, which I don't - or at least not for this character.

But to be honest, in your case I'm not sure why you'd bother being a ranger in the first place. Why not just be a straight up tempest cleric?

I tend to think that multiclass caster/martial characters can suffer hard in action economy versus single-class characters. If you're an 11th level character you want to be casting a 6th level spell for your action - or doing 3 attacks, or two with improved divine smite or whatever. A mixed character can choose between casting a worse spell or a weaker attack, relative to what a single-class character can do. It ends up being a lot better to have a wizard and a fighter, instead of a 50/50 wizard/fighter.

So for instance a tempest cleric picks up destructive wave at 9th level. I wouldn't want to delay getting it, at all.

You could very happily play a tempest cleric with a good dex and a longbow, which he would be proficient with. Go from level 1 shooting things, which you'll actually do just as well as the ranger at 1st level. Later, the ranger gets a second attack and various other features. The cleric instead gets call lightning, spirit guardians and so on. It's different, but not worse.

I probably wouldn't bother with sharpshooter, but instead you could grab warcaster or resilient con - or play something like a hill dwarf or a wood elf and grab a bunch of racial bonuses.

I quite like the idea of a wood elf light cleric (Corellon works for this). It's somewhat similar really in that you get some blasting and some defence, in the form of disadvantage for attackers rather than damage if they hit you. Adding wisdom to damage from searing light seems good because it's more SAD, whereas investing ASIs in strength or dex when I only have one attack doesn't seem all that amazing. I'd probably rather hit 20 wis at level 8 and then look at feats like war caster.

[R.Shackleford]

Light cleric would be great for a ranger bow build, if you are up close then you have some spells that won't give you disadvantage such as burning hands.

However you don't need to max out Wis or Dex really.

16 until about 8 or 13 and then 18 after that will do you just fine. Pick up some feats instead.

Edit

Also I'm not a huge Sharpshooter fan but the cover negation is awesome.

[Tanarii]

I refer you to the Unearthed Arcana article that I linked in the beginning of my original post. Deep Stalker Rangers get to hide as a bonus action beginning at level 3.Keep in mind you must still meet the normal requirements for hiding. That can be very difficult to meet while still retaining the ability to make attacks from the position during combat unless you are a Wood Elf, Lightfoot Halfling, or take the Skulker Feat. Because if you have total cover or heavy concealment, you also can't see the enemy to attack them. And if you leave it, you aren't hidden any more and don't gain advantage.

Pop-up attacks are very hard to do in 5e.

Edit: obviously the easiest way to do it is to be in natural darkness while your opponent isn't. Or be in darkness but outside your opponents darkvision range. That's why the UA Ranger has the ability to hide as a bonus action. They're far more likely to be in one of those two situations.

[jaappleton]

My original thought was that by going Ranger / Cleric, I could pretty much be a Ranger but with, for all intents and purposes, better spell progression. The Lightning Arrow VS Shatter + Tenpest Channel Divinity is what made me realize this could work, and work rather well. The appeal of the Ranger was that due to Deep Stalker, I could actually utilize stealth and sneakiness to avoid being hit.

The appeal was being able to do consistent ranged damage via archery with the ability to do better AoE than a standard Ranger. Shatter would be 24, then 32, etc as it climbed in spell levels.

I'm picking up quite a bit of, "While it works, it's... Sort of not worth it".

So my question is, for a level 10 character, is there a better way to make a ranged gish?

[Mandragola]

So my question is, for a level 10 character, is there a better way to make a ranged gish?

I suppose the first place to look for any kind of gish character ought to be the EA fighter. And honestly it seems tome that it could work pretty well.

Plus... warlocks. You can go to quite a lot of effort to build an archer who cast blasting spells, only to find that you're stood next to a guy with EB who gets fireball at level 5. Huh.

I guess that it could be quite fun to build a pact of the blade guy with a bow as his pact weapon. Trouble is that the bow wouldn't do any more damage than EB, and might well do less. It does give you the quite interesting option of sharpshooter with lifedrinker, for +20 damage to each hit once dex and cha were capped. A variant human could start out with the feat, and devil's sight gets you around the major weakness a human archer has - baddies who are far away in the darkness.

And of course you might find a fun magic bow to fire at people, and you could take a level of fighter for the fighting style before switching to warlock - or at some later point if you wanted to prioritise your 2nd attack and fireball.

[Tanarii]

I could actually utilize stealth and sneakiness to avoid being hit.
This tactic, retreating into Heavy Obscured and hiding to avoid being targetable, works pretty well. Fog Cloud & Darkness are good spells to use in conjunction. At the very least your opponents need to start using the Ready Action to hit you when you come back out of it to attack.

If you have Total Cover it's not really necessary. They may know you are there / behind it, but unlike Obscured they can't just shoot you at disadvantage.

[jaappleton]

Well as I said, I think war priest makes the best dip. Other varieties of cleric arguably make more sense if you you plan a proper career as a cleric, which I don't - or at least not for this character.

But to be honest, in your case I'm not sure why you'd bother being a ranger in the first place. Why not just be a straight up tempest cleric?

I tend to think that multiclass caster/martial characters can suffer hard in action economy versus single-class characters. If you're an 11th level character you want to be casting a 6th level spell for your action - or doing 3 attacks, or two with improved divine smite or whatever. A mixed character can choose between casting a worse spell or a weaker attack, relative to what a single-class character can do. It ends up being a lot better to have a wizard and a fighter, instead of a 50/50 wizard/fighter.

So for instance a tempest cleric picks up destructive wave at 9th level. I wouldn't want to delay getting it, at all.

You could very happily play a tempest cleric with a good dex and a longbow, which he would be proficient with. Go from level 1 shooting things, which you'll actually do just as well as the ranger at 1st level. Later, the ranger gets a second attack and various other features. The cleric instead gets call lightning, spirit guardians and so on. It's different, but not worse.

I probably wouldn't bother with sharpshooter, but instead you could grab warcaster or resilient con - or play something like a hill dwarf or a wood elf and grab a bunch of racial bonuses.

I quite like the idea of a wood elf light cleric (Corellon works for this). It's somewhat similar really in that you get some blasting and some defence, in the form of disadvantage for attackers rather than damage if they hit you. Adding wisdom to damage from searing light seems good because it's more SAD, whereas investing ASIs in strength or dex when I only have one attack doesn't seem all that amazing. I'd probably rather hit 20 wis at level 8 and then look at feats like war caster.

The more and more I think about it, the more my original concept seems to pale compared to a straight Tempest Cleric. Shatter, Call Lightning, Destructive Wave all seem to be better than using weaponry at all if I were to go straight Cleric, and seems more often that not to be superior to the Ranger / Cleric.

[Citan]

My original thought was that by going Ranger / Cleric, I could pretty much be a Ranger but with, for all intents and purposes, better spell progression. The Lightning Arrow VS Shatter + Tenpest Channel Divinity is what made me realize this could work, and work rather well. The appeal of the Ranger was that due to Deep Stalker, I could actually utilize stealth and sneakiness to avoid being hit.

The appeal was being able to do consistent ranged damage via archery with the ability to do better AoE than a standard Ranger. Shatter would be 24, then 32, etc as it climbed in spell levels.

I'm picking up quite a bit of, "While it works, it's... Sort of not worth it".

So my question is, for a level 10 character, is there a better way to make a ranged gish?


The more and more I think about it, the more my original concept seems to pale compared to a straight Tempest Cleric. Shatter, Call Lightning, Destructive Wave all seem to be better than using weaponry at all if I were to go straight Cleric, and seems more often that not to be superior to the Ranger / Cleric.
Frankly, it is not "superior"in itself. It all depends on what you want to do.
If your main blast ("haha") is to wreck havoc in enemy lines through lightning, then be a pure Tempest Cleric (or, honestly, be rather a Storm Sorcerer). But remember that once a Tempest Cleric is out of spell slots, he's basically either a cantrip shooter (and he doesn't know Shocking Grasp or Booming Blade unless you take Magic Initiate feat) or a single-attack weapon wielder. Even accounting for the bonus damage on weapon attack, it will be much weaker than your gish. And if you want to go ranged, since Cleric has only access to simple weapons, you would be shoehorned into being a Wood Elf. Not a bad thing but it's a bit sad.

If you want to be a gish though, aka "mix arrow marksmanship with occasional spells to buff or nova", don't be afraid of your build, it works quite well. And as I said earlier, all Domains are good, so since you seemingly like the storm theme, go for it!

For a build of 10 levels, I'd say Ranger 5 / Cleric 5 works pretty well (Ranger 4 / Cleric 6 works also to get the push effect, but I think Extra Attack will be more useful overall since you will be staying at range most of the time).

You will get: proficiency with longbow and crossbows (meaning you can start with any race you want), Archery, Extra Attack + Horde Breaker (meaning 3 attacks per turn most of the time) + Hunter's Mark. You will still get the Channel Divinity feature and Shatter + Call Lightning to use it on.
You can then take your 11th level in Cleric for additional CD use, then continue Cleric for 8th level ability and ASI, etc...
Basically you will be better than a Ranger in most aspects between 5th and 11th level (not included) because you get a few cool abilities, plenty of spells and additional spell slots (namely Hunter's Mark or Bless on a basis, unleashing Shatter or other damaging spell when it counts).

If you really want to rock in the martial aspect, you could even start Variant Human to get the Crossbow Expert and get a permanent bonus action attack (it means you will have unbalanced stats though if you want to start with 16 in DEX and WIS).

[Biggstick]

Frankly, it is not "superior"in itself. It all depends on what you want to do.
If your main blast ("haha") is to wreck havoc in enemy lines through lightning, then be a pure Tempest Cleric (or, honestly, be rather a Storm Sorcerer). But remember that once a Tempest Cleric is out of spell slots, he's basically either a cantrip shooter (and he doesn't know Shocking Grasp or Booming Blade unless you take Magic Initiate feat) or a single-attack weapon wielder. Even accounting for the bonus damage on weapon attack, it will be much weaker than your gish. And if you want to go ranged, since Cleric has only access to simple weapons, you would be shoehorned into being a Wood Elf. Not a bad thing but it's a bit sad.

Tempest, War, and Death Clerics are all granted proficiency in all martial weapons at Cleric level 1.

As for the other part of the discussion with the OP. If you're feeling less of a desire to be a primary martial, then feel free to drop down to even just 3 levels of Ranger (or whatever other primary martial you're looking at). The Cleric level 20 capstone is pretty meh, and all the domains cap out at level 17. Level 17 is also when you have access to level 9 spells. There are plenty of solid builds of Cleric 17 // xx 3 that work out great. As for leveling purposes, there are a few ways one could go about it.


You go this route if you prefer the level 1 start of a different class to a Cleric's level 1 start.

Go this route if you don't want to wait for your spells. You could even push to Cleric 9 before taking your 3 levels in a different class.

Go this route if you want to get that second channel divinity quick and early, but don't necessarily care about your level 4 and 5 spells as early. This will allow you to pick up the xx class levels early enough to actually feel them impact your character as well.

You've decided you wanted to play a Cleric after all! Fortunately you have a little lee way at the end of Cleric, as the last few levels don't bring much (other then a third Channel Divinity at level 18). You could easily pick up 3 levels in xx class here and make it work.

[jaappleton]

After careful consideration about what I actually want to do, I've discovered my real desire is to blow enemies up.

And Tempest Cleric is really good at that.

However, there seems to be something better than a Tempest Cleric at being a Tempest Cleric.

The Theurge Wizard from August's UA.

For the unfamiliar, Theurge from that UA article allows Wizards to pick Cleric Domain spells, and also grants the domains Channel Divinity.

Max Lightning Bolt
Max Chain Lightning

With Arcane Recovery, and Wizard spells, with Ritual Casting.

Chucking maximized lightning bolts while under Greater Invisibility?


So I'll make a new topic shortly to discuss that, since there's also some unique race questions that I have regarding this build.

[R.Shackleford]

After careful consideration about what I actually want to do, I've discovered my real desire is to blow enemies up.

And Tempest Cleric is really good at that.

However, there seems to be something better than a Tempest Cleric at being a Tempest Cleric.

The Theurge Wizard from August's UA.

For the unfamiliar, Theurge from that UA article allows Wizards to pick Cleric Domain spells, and also grants the domains Channel Divinity.

Max Lightning Bolt
Max Chain Lightning

With Arcane Recovery, and Wizard spells, with Ritual Casting.

Chucking maximized lightning bolts while under Greater Invisibility?


So I'll make a new topic shortly to discuss that, since there's also some unique race questions that I have regarding this build.

I really wouldn't try to get that to pass, it is broken as all hell and your DM may drop rocks on you.

[jaappleton]

I really wouldn't try to get that to pass, it is broken as all hell and your DM may drop rocks on you.

At the very least, the topic will be a fun exercise as to just how OP we can make this thing!

[R.Shackleford]

At the very least, the topic will be a fun exercise as to just how OP we can make this thing!

You get a level 17 feature at level 14... There you go.

There really isn't much to say that hasn't already been talked to death about the wizard using cleric domains.

Adding bonuses to your DC, taking cleric domains, and early features. Broken.

[ZanettonBR]

If you're looking only for damage per round, look no further than the War domain. War priest is crazy, specially with a high wisdom score, which you probably have as a Ranger/Cleric. Also,the spells are very defensive-oriented, giving you more survivability while your features make you a killing machine.

Hope it helped, good luck with your build :)