Question with traps

[Godrednu]

Aren't they just so easy to avoid? Most require a perception our investigation DC 13-15. If there is a party of 5, isn't someone bound to succeed in this??or am I missing something about traps?

I don't want my party to call fur every trap (as DM). I just want them to not be pointless.

[Reaver25]

You could make some of the DCs a little higher. After all, you are DM. And not every trap maker will set traps in the same way. Some may be easier to spot, but not others. Or, you could make double traps. One trap that is fairly obvious, and another trap that is hard to spot. Also, if they spend all their time getting past that first easy to spot trap, they are more likely to just keep going after that. Hope I'm making sense here!

[Godrednu]

Yeah, that makes sense. I was also thinking instead of pressure plates that can be noticed, I could just make the trigger something they must do. Is that a bad idea?

[gfishfunk]

My advice?

Make traps obvious. Let them discover the traps. Use the same traps over and over again. Traps are boring alone or every third room or whatever. Traps paired with other stuff become interesting.

Consider the classic pit trap. Put them in interesting places:
- A pit trap for 10' down the main corridor. They will spot it, but how do they avoid it?
- The trap is at the end of a short, dead-end hallway. This may indicate that there is a harder to find secret door....
- The pit trap is a trap...but also leads to another passage inside the pit.
- There are a series of traps in the room, spread out. Your PCs spot them, but midway crossing through the room, a group of enemies attack.

Even well designed and interesting traps are boring.

[Mellack]

I think traps alone are boring. They are much better when used in conjunction with other enemies or events. A pit trap that is between you and the goblin archers. Pressure plates that drop walls splitting the party during a fight. Dart traps while you are running from a boulder. Those kinds of things.

[Safety Sword]

Sometimes only the point man (guy at the front) should have the opportunity to notice the trap. And the trap drops on the 3rd person in the column.

Gives scouts a role and doesn't always punish the person doing the active scouting for slipping up.

[RickAllison]

Traps should never be a one-and-done thing. Enemies using the trap to kill the party is a good one, but a trapfield that requires quick-thinking and more careful consideration can be great as well. A spike trap is rather uneventful (you see it or you don't), closing doors aren't much, needle traps are boring, and rolling boulders are passe. Instead, how about sending a rolling boulder after your players that leads them down a hall with darts that inflict a movement-reducing venom and empties into a room with a pit with various ropes to cross the gaps. Oh, and the majority of the ropes are either frayed or animated to kill the party. So you end up with a mad scramble as the party fights over a pit of deathly spikes while watching their ropes break. Fun times!

[smcmike]

If a trap is just a perception check and damage, it's not worth including, regardless of the DC. It's gotta given the players something to engage with. Traps as elements in combat, or challenges requiring teamwork, or with narrative clues to give the players something to do beyond rolling perception - maybe worth including. It can be a cool moment when the party is walking down the hall and realizes that the traps they've encountered fit some sort of pattern, or had some sort of meaning.

[Reaper34]

Traps can serve a range of functions and designs.

the paranoia inducing trap. eairly in dungeon low dc to find. causes party to start looking for traps.

the functionsl trap. designed to accomplish a goal. split party, bleed off hp/resources, close off retreat, ect. can be in a standard location... chest, door, floor... or non standard..... a chair, bed, book ect. dc vairies

long term vs short term traps. long term mechanical/magical trap. short term snake nailed by the tail to a doorframe and rests above it. (yes they did this in 'nam) dc variable

traps as "mine field" dc low but combined with a driving force... crushing walls, many enemies, fire, ect they can be interesting

trap as plot device.. trap has strange poison antidote is at end of dungeon. high dc if it has a dc at all. another favorite is the bound outsider/quest giver trap is tripped baddie appears do this (usually free me or way to free me) or silence!! i kill you!!!...... i kill you too!! (akmed the dead terrorist)

traps as barriers. pit/swingging blades/fire jets in a hall. they can't be avoided, no dc to find.

there are more i just can't think of them right now. so no all traps arn't useless, just most of those put in modules are. if you want a bit of inspiration check out the original tomb of horrors module. anyone that has played in and claims to have never died in it are probably lieing. i suspose i'm showing my age here a bit too.

another help is use words a bit literally (don't be a troll). "i search the chest for traps" they miss the pressure plate infront of chest (trollish) they miss the trapped painting on the far wall (fair game)

[mephnick]

Like everyone else has said, the only way to make minor traps work is to add other things to them. Fights, puzzles, timed events etc.

Stand-alone traps have to cripple or kill to be useful to anyone and not many PCs enjoy taking 200 damage for failing a perception check.

[ad_hoc]

This is what Passive Perception was designed for.

If you want to roll, and I encourage it, roll once for the trap itself and compare its result against the PP of the individual party members that could have spotted it.

[hymer]

Aren't they just so easy to avoid? Most require a perception our investigation DC 13-15. If there is a party of 5, isn't someone bound to succeed in this??or am I missing something about traps?

I don't want my party to call fur every trap (as DM). I just want them to not be pointless.

Are you giving them automatic checks to notice traps? Most traps aren't noticeable until the PCs find them, whether by searching or by springing the trap. The players can feel clever about themselves by guessing correctly where to search for traps, and guessing correctly when it's something worth searching for multiple times.

[Demonslayer666]

Easy traps are indeed easy. Make them harder.

Occasionally make the DC higher than their passive Perception. Not all traps are made equally bad. I guess I'm a bad DM, because I never give them a chance to spot a trap unless they are actively searching for them. :smallbiggrin:

This was mentioned before, but don't give the whole party the opportunity to spot it. Maybe one person behind the leader, and that's it. The rest would not be able to see much.

Make them unavoidable. Put the trap in a hallway where they want to go. Or at the end of a dead end hallway, and spring it behind them. e.g. a gelatinous cube drops from the ceiling blocking them in the hallway. Ok, that's more of an encounter, but you get the idea. :smallsmile:

[Mellack]

Are you giving them automatic checks to notice traps? Most traps aren't noticeable until the PCs find them, whether by searching or by springing the trap. The players can feel clever about themselves by guessing correctly where to search for traps, and guessing correctly when it's something worth searching for multiple times.

My understanding is this is the reason for passive perception. It keeps the game moving quickly. Otherwise you get the slow slog where you are checking every ten feet of floor, and then the door, the lock on the door, etc. I remember that from old editions and personally would not want to go back to it.

[Demonslayer666]

My understanding is this is the reason for passive perception. It keeps the game moving quickly. Otherwise you get the slow slog where you are checking every ten feet of floor, and then the door, the lock on the door, etc. I remember that from old editions and personally would not want to go back to it.

Back in my day we checked every 5 feet...

[hymer]

My understanding is this is the reason for passive perception. It keeps the game moving quickly. Otherwise you get the slow slog where you are checking every ten feet of floor, and then the door, the lock on the door, etc. I remember that from old editions and personally would not want to go back to it.

Passive Perception can be used to avoid the slog for the players while the PCs go through it, of course. But it still takes in-game time, and the casters and the one who drank a potion are getting restless, because their effects are running out of time. And some people may be roleplaying less than perfectly patient people, and consequently fail to be entirely patient.

And there are upsides and downsides to being very thorough. Some problems are exacerbated by checking every square of floor and every door for traps. Moving that slowly lets the kobolds set up their ambush carefully, lets the evil wizard cast all his spells in preparation before you reach him, or allows the thief to gather up the macguffin and skedaddle.

[Vogonjeltz]

Aren't they just so easy to avoid? Most require a perception our investigation DC 13-15. If there is a party of 5, isn't someone bound to succeed in this??or am I missing something about traps?

I don't want my party to call fur every trap (as DM). I just want them to not be pointless.

Something to bear in mind is that above DC 15 puts it out of range of untrained but talented perceivers (i.e. +5 Wisdom mod, no proficiency applied). If a trap is better hidden than normal you might increase the DC from 15 to 20 for example (of course, this virtually guarantees that the trap is set off by a party that lacks Alert/Expertise in Perception/Investigation AND high wisdom scores). So that should be born in mind as well.


My advice?

Make traps obvious. Let them discover the traps. Use the same traps over and over again. Traps are boring alone or every third room or whatever. Traps paired with other stuff become interesting.

Consider the classic pit trap. Put them in interesting places:
- A pit trap for 10' down the main corridor. They will spot it, but how do they avoid it?
- The trap is at the end of a short, dead-end hallway. This may indicate that there is a harder to find secret door....
- The pit trap is a trap...but also leads to another passage inside the pit.
- There are a series of traps in the room, spread out. Your PCs spot them, but midway crossing through the room, a group of enemies attack.

Even well designed and interesting traps are boring.

I like the advice on different reasons for the trap to exist, i.e. #3 ala The Goonies.