PDA

View Full Version : Optimization [3.5] Let's Make a Nuke



Xanyo
2016-08-17, 01:40 PM
I want to build a nuke. This nuke will (most likely)be in the from of a spell. This nuke will preferably have a large area, though 20' to 40' radius is still rather large if you think about it. This nuke should do a LOT of damage, preferably with some fire in there. This nuke shouldn't leave anything alive except the caster. The caster should survive the nuke. The caster may be up to 20th level.

Let's get nukin'.

My first idea is using frosty tricks to make a Locate City do damage, and go from there, possibly with Explosive Spell. The spells range is barely enough to allow the caster to be outside of it. Barely.

You could also go about buffing up a Fireball as much as possible, but it'll still have to one-shot most anything. And it's a rather (relatively)small area to start with.

What are your ideas?

Flickerdart
2016-08-17, 01:46 PM
Locate City Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?72212-quot-Locate-city-bomb-quot-I-m-a-noob-what-is-it) has been a thing for over a decade.

AvatarVecna
2016-08-17, 01:55 PM
I want to build a nuke. This nuke will (most likely)be in the from of a spell. This nuke will preferably have a large area, though 20' to 40' radius is still rather large if you think about it. This nuke should do a LOT of damage, preferably with some fire in there. This nuke shouldn't leave anything alive except the caster. The caster should survive the nuke. The caster may be up to 20th level.

Let's get nukin'.

My first idea is using frosty tricks to make a Locate City do damage, and go from there, possibly with Explosive Spell. The spells range is barely enough to allow the caster to be outside of it. Barely.

You could also go about buffing up a Fireball as much as possible, but it'll still have to one-shot most anything. And it's a rather (relatively)small area to start with.

What are your ideas?

The "Locate City Bomb" trick is well-known, but I think there's some people who insist it doesn't work. In a previous thread seeking some kind of Death Star-esque superlaser, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?468857-Build-Me-A-Superlaser-(3-5)) I pointed them towards the Serpent Kingdom spell "Erupt" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20157938&postcount=10). If you can find a way to give the spell some good range, or to make the caster immune to fire damage, you'll have a really good nuke spell, especially if you can get a really high CL. There's three big downsides to this spell: firstly, its range is touch, so you have to be at ground zero to fire it unless you can give it range (such as via Reach Spell or maybe a good Arcane Archer build that somehow gets 9th lvl Cleric spells); secondly, it takes a full minute to cast, which can be problematic (although Rapid Spell helps mitigate this a good bit); finally, it'[s a 9th lvl spell, which makes applying metamagic pre-epic difficult at best (multiple greater metamagic rods) or absolutely cheesy at worst (Incantatrix 10+Arcane Thesis does wonders for it).

If you can find a way to get Reach Spell, Rapid Spell, Widen Spell, Twin Spell, and Repeat Spell all on this spell at CR 40 with Circle Magic (the equivalent of a 22nd lvl spell), everything within 8000 ft will take 1600 fire damage. Note: this spell has a Fort save for half, but if you can get a Reflex save on it via metamagic or something, you can also apply Explosive Spell to drive people away from the epicenter for great damage. You can also use metamagic to change it away from fire damage, or to make it part holy/unholy/city damage that can't be blocked (although this makes it more difficult for the caster to be immune).

ExLibrisMortis
2016-08-17, 02:12 PM
Have a look at this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?480986-The-Voidstone-Arsenal-For-when-you-really-want-stuff-gone)

Xanyo
2016-08-17, 02:20 PM
The Erupt is looking like a good starter for pure damage, area, and flavor. Some metamagic rods can supply things like Empower Spell and Widen Spell. We've now got a 2000 ft radius doing 400 fire damage, Fortitude save for half. Easy Metamagic will get us Searing Spell to hit the things that are normally immune to fire. As for saving ourselves, a Delay Death spell will keep us alive long enough to cast Secret Chest to grab a bucket of water to stick our head in to get our HP to 0. Alive, barely. But 200 damage(or 100 if they make the save) to whatever is immune to fire may not be enough to kill it outright, and we're vulnerable after casting.

FearlessGnome
2016-08-17, 02:29 PM
Apocalypse from the Sky, Book of Vile Darkness. It only deals 10d6 damage, but it has a radius of ten miles per caster level. You can pick the energy type, so you can easily be immune to it. It does have a 3d6 Con damage + 4d6 Wis drain corruption cost, which could be inconvenient if your Wisdom isn't great.

10d6 damage won't kill other high level casters, but it will wipe out commoners, plants and animals for hundreds of miles in every direction, especially if you have the Sudden Widen metamagic feat. Throw in Sudden Empower and Sudden Maximize too, because why not.

It requires an Artifact for a focus, but you can probably get one of those by the time you reach level 20. The fluff says the artifact is "usually" an artifact of good twisted to serve evil, but any old thing will do. 1 day casting time.

AvatarVecna
2016-08-17, 02:31 PM
The Erupt is looking like a good starter for pure damage, area, and flavor. Some metamagic rods can supply things like Empower Spell and Widen Spell. We've now got a 2000 ft radius doing 400 fire damage, Fortitude save for half. Easy Metamagic will get us Searing Spell to hit the things that are normally immune to fire. As for saving ourselves, a Delay Death spell will keep us alive long enough to cast Secret Chest to grab a bucket of water to stick our head in to get our HP to 0. Alive, barely. But 200 damage to whatever is immune to fire may not be enough to kill it outright, and we're vulnerable after casting.

I'm not sure what Empower Spell is doing here, but I thought of a good way to get away from the blast: make it a Delay Spell as well, and then teleport out.

I'll probably do at least a partial build later, with an Incantatrix really going to town with this spell (and possibly some other spells).

Xanyo
2016-08-17, 02:33 PM
If we're immune to it, our enemies could be immune to it. We need to completely destroy all our enemies in the area, and 10d6, even with heavy metamagic, won't do that. If anyone survives other than us, our nuke failed.

enderlord99
2016-08-17, 02:51 PM
If we're immune to it, our enemies could be immune to it. We need to completely destroy all our enemies in the area, and 10d6, even with heavy metamagic, won't do that. If anyone survives other than us, our nuke failed.

It's not 10d6. It's a flat 200.

Flickerdart
2016-08-17, 02:53 PM
It's not 10d6. It's a flat 200.

Wait, why 200? 60 from Maximize, 5d6 from Empower.

AvatarVecna
2016-08-17, 02:59 PM
Wait, why 200? 60 from Maximize, 5d6 from Empower.

I think they're talking about Erupt, where the OP was talking about AftS, hence the confusion.

Âmesang
2016-08-17, 03:10 PM
Years ago I attempted an epic nuke spell for a 50th-level divine emissary of a dark god… back when I was really obsessed with epic level. :smalltongue:

JUDGMENT
Evocation [Fire]
Spellcraft DC 130
Components V, S, M, XP
Casting Time 1 minute
Range 4 miles
Area 4-mile-radius hemispherical spread, centered on you; see text
Duration Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; see text
Spell Resistance Yes
DESCRIPTIONAs the final words of the incantation are spoken, the soul gem shatters. Immediately raw magical energies begin to converge on the location the spell was cast. Ten minutes later it erupts in a brilliant flash of light that quickly engulfs an eight-mile wide area; this event only precedes the horror that is to come.
https://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifThe conflagration has several different effects: Firstly, a terrifying heat like unto the heart of the sun incinerates the earth, dealing 80d6 fire damage, setting fire to combustibles and damaging objects in the area, as well as melting metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. Secondly, a shockwave rips through the landscape, dealing 80d6 bludgeoning damage as it leaves a permanent scar on the face of the world. If either the fire or the shockwave shatters or breaks through an interposing barrier, it may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits. Lastly, the flash causes permanent blindness while the blast tears a hole in the fabric of magic itself, leaving the area enveloped within an antimagic field. A successful Fortitude save halves the fire and bludgeoning damage and negates the blindness. Any target reduced to –10 hit points or less (or a construct, object, or undead reduced to 0 hitpoints) is utterly destroyed as if disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust.
https://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifThe body and life force of the caster are used as a catalyst to fuel the titanic energies involved, while the soul trapped within the gem is reduced to nothingness. Upon casting the spell, the caster and his companions have ten minutes to evacuate before being consumed by the hellstorm unleashed.
https://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifMaterial Component: A soul trapped within a gem worth at least 25,000 gp
https://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/indent.gifXP Cost: 20,000 XP
SPELLCRAFTING REQUIREMENTSSeeds afflict (DC 16), destroy (DC 29), dispel (DC 19), energy (fire) (DC 19), energy (weather) (DC 25); Factors extreme heat (ad hoc +25 DC), increase destroy damage by 60d6 (+120 DC), increase energy damage by 79d6 (+158 DC), antimagic effects (as per antimagic field spell) (ad hoc +25 DC), increase area by 100% (+4 DC); Mitigating factors 100d6 backlash (–100 DC), burn 20,000 XP (–200 DC), expensive material component (ad hoc –10 DC); Cost 1,170,000 gp, 46,800 XP, 24 days
Now any epic spell shenanigans I attempt is to try and replicate Slerotin's passage and the Invoked Devastation from WORLD OF GREYHAWK®—oddly appropriate considering the deities involved; on a similar note, according to the SPELLJAMMER® supplement, Greyspace, physical contact with the sun inflicts 45d6 fire damage per round.

EDIT: I wonder if apocalypse from the sky was a half-hearted attempt at recreating the Invoked Devastation due to the latter's connection with the Bringer of Doom?

Nando
2016-08-17, 03:22 PM
If you got a copy, check FRs Champions Of Ruin, there are several "nukes" in the epic spells part:
Cataract of Fire (epic version of flame strike), Diluvial Torrent (water version of the Cataract), Horrendous Dessication (creates a 300-ft.-radius/level-desert), Necromantic Singularity (kills creatures worth up to 1,000 HD in a 1-mile radius ).

DeAnno
2016-08-17, 04:00 PM
I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be about conjuring plutonium, Teleportation circle, and properly shaping your critical mass.

Flickerdart
2016-08-17, 04:02 PM
I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be about conjuring plutonium, Teleportation circle, and properly shaping your critical mass.

Just make a regular mass, and about 1 in 20 times it will be critical.

Tvtyrant
2016-08-17, 04:13 PM
Well, arguably you can destroy almost anything with polymorph any object/animate object and disintegrate. Turn the ground into a colossal animated object, disintegrate it to turn the planet into a ball of dust.

Bakkan
2016-08-17, 04:22 PM
If we're immune to it, our enemies could be immune to it. We need to completely destroy all our enemies in the area, and 10d6, even with heavy metamagic, won't do that. If anyone survives other than us, our nuke failed.

Without some additional parameters this is going to be very difficult. It is possible for your enemies to be completely immune to damage, death effects, polymorph, or even spheres of annihilation. At high enough levels of optimization, there will be no one-size-fits-all killing effect (sans perhaps epic magic). For further information on ridiculous defenses, look up the Emerald Legion.

Now, if you have a particular goal, say "1000 points of damage to everything in a 200 ft radius that can't be fire or cold damage" it's much easier to come up with an answer.

enderlord99
2016-08-17, 04:23 PM
I think they're talking about Erupt, where the OP was talking about AftS, hence the confusion.

:smallconfused:I thought the only spell mentioned by name in the OP was locate city.
Since there's only one of me, please don't use "they're." You can use "they's" if you want.
Yes, though, I was talking about erupt.

AvatarVecna
2016-08-17, 04:30 PM
:smallconfused:I thought the only spell mentioned by name in the OP was locate city.
Since there's only one of me, please don't use "they're." You can use "they's" if you want.
Yes, though, I was talking about erupt.

The post you were responding to when you said "it's not 10d6, it's 200" was a post talking about how they want to make sure the nuke killed their enemies, and how 10d6 wasn't enough; this was directly commenting on somebody who brought up Apocalypse From The Sky (a spell that deals only 10d6 damage). In the post you were quoting, that is the spell the OP was talking about, not Locate City Bomb, and not Erupt.

EDIT: I use "they/them/they're/etc" as a way to discuss a person whose appropriate and/or preferred pronoun I don't know and am too lazy to spend time determining. If you wish to be addressed by some other pronoun, let me know. Until then, you be a they to me.

Calthropstu
2016-08-17, 04:47 PM
Didn't 8-bit theater already post the rules for such a spell?

enderlord99
2016-08-17, 04:48 PM
EDIT: I use "they/them/they're/etc" as a way to discuss a person whose appropriate and/or preferred pronoun I don't know and am too lazy to spend time determining. If you wish to be addressed by some other pronoun, let me know. Until then, you be a they to me.

No, see, I'm fine with "they" and "them" but "they're" is short for "they are" whereas the correct third-person singular connecting-verb is "is." "Are" is for either third-person plural or second-person. The situation isn't really a big deal to me, but "they's" is an example of more-accurate grammar.

Calthropstu
2016-08-17, 04:49 PM
No, see, I'm fine with "they" and "them" but "they're" is short for "they are" whereas the correct third-person singular connecting-verb is "is." "Are" is for either third-person plural or second-person. The situation isn't really a big deal to me, but "they's" is an example of more-accurate grammar.

Maybe he's implying you're a pirate.

Arrrrrr!

AvatarVecna
2016-08-17, 04:58 PM
No, see, I'm fine with "they" and "them" but "they're" is short for "they are" whereas the correct third-person singular connecting-verb is "is." "Are" is for either third-person plural or second-person. The situation isn't really a big deal to me, but "they's" is an example of more-accurate grammar.

You have a point, then, although I'll add the caveat that "they is" feels wrong even if it's technically grammatically correct.

Xanyo
2016-08-17, 05:21 PM
Let's say we start our nuke with Erupt. With some choices of feats and such, our 20th level caster can buff up our spell. Fire Domain gets us +1 CL with fire spells, as do Fiery Burst and Elemental Spellcasting. The spellgifted trait from Unearthed Arcana will give us +1 CL with evocations, so our CL so far is 24. If we spare one of our cleric levels for wizard, trading out the familiar for +1 CL, and take the feat Alternate Spell Source, we can cast Erupt as an arcane spell, allowing us to take Arcane Thesis for it, granting another 2 CL, bringing us up to CL 27. Our Arcane Thesis will also allow us to put on Searing Spell.

In a 2000' radius burst, we deal:
270 fire damage normally(135 if saved).
135 to creatures immune to fire(67 if saved).
540 to creatures with the cold subtype(270 if saved).

We survive by means of a Delay Death spell cast beforehand, allowing us to heal ourselves after everyone has been burnt.


Edit: Aaand, my thread has turned into a grammar debate. :P

Mister Tom
2016-08-17, 05:25 PM
You have a point, then, although I'll add the caveat that "they is" feels wrong even if it's technically grammatically correct.

It is wrong: although "They" can take a singular antecedent ('Singular they') it takes a plural verb.

Back to the much more interesting question of creative destruction. Can you polymorph something into antimatter?

AvatarVecna
2016-08-17, 05:27 PM
It is wrong: although "They" can take a singular antecedent ('Singular they') it takes a plural verb.

Back to the much more interesting question of creative destruction. Can you polymorph something into antimatter?

I don't think Polymorph is an option, but I think True Creation can create antimatter.

Jormengand
2016-08-17, 05:27 PM
Just make a regular mass, and about 1 in 20 times it will be critical.

Unless it's particularly threatening, but you will need to make another mass to confirm it either way.

Calthropstu
2016-08-17, 05:30 PM
https://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tactical_Nuke_%283.5e_Epic_Spell%29
https://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Megaton_%283.5e_Epic_Spell%29

Xanyo
2016-08-17, 05:36 PM
So with our level 8 spell, Polymorph any Object, we create 2000 cubic feet of antimatter. If antimatter is at least as dense as concrete, we get 5842560 megatons. Ouch. It's not even an area or evocation spell, wejus t blew everything up anyway.

AvatarVecna
2016-08-17, 05:51 PM
So with our level 8 spell, Polymorph any Object, we create 2000 cubic feet of antimatter. If antimatter is at least as dense as concrete, we get 5842560 megatons. Ouch. It's not even an area or evocation spell, wejus t blew everything up anyway.

The only real problem with this particular approach is that it assumes D&D physics works like our own, and antimatter coming into contact with matter would cause an explosion as per normal. I've had a DM who straight up wouldn't allow antimatter to be created with magic ("magic makes matter, so to make antimatter you need to cast a spell with antimagic" or something, I believe his vague ruling-supporting explanation was).

Xanyo
2016-08-17, 05:57 PM
Even if some ruling gets in our way of making antimatter(would using a Wish to combine Polymorph any Object and Antimagic Field work?), we can still make 2000 cubic feet of the most unstable and radioactive substance we can think of and watch it blow up.

ExLibrisMortis
2016-08-17, 06:12 PM
Even if some ruling gets in our way of making antimatter(would using a Wish to combine Polymorph any Object and Antimagic Field work?), we can still make 2000 cubic feet of the most unstable and radioactive substance we can think of and watch it blow up.
2000 cubic feet of plutonium goes boom very well indeed. There is no shortage of boomstuff, but then again, maybe Pu239 is a super stable compound once you throw magic into the mix.

Edit: I'm always rather partial to the idea that there is a (magically) stable sequence of elements somewhere Z > 200, consisting of various (room temperature) super(conducting)-metals and unbreakable lighter-than-air crystals.

icefractal
2016-08-17, 10:05 PM
To my mind, creating plutonium/osmium/antimatter with Major Creation is on rather shaky ground. RAW, those don't necessarily exist. There's a radioactive-esque substance in the Underdark, but it doesn't explode. In the realm of logical extrapolation they might (depending on how much like RL the setting is), but in the realm of logical extrapolation a 5th level spell probably shouldn't be able to make them, much less in large quantities.

Same territory as the commoner railgun, IMO, in that it's based on two mutually exclusive positions: "RAW applies even if ridiculous" / "Things outside the rules happen if it would make RL sense".

Melcar
2016-08-18, 01:48 PM
I want to build a nuke. This nuke will (most likely)be in the from of a spell. This nuke will preferably have a large area, though 20' to 40' radius is still rather large if you think about it. This nuke should do a LOT of damage, preferably with some fire in there. This nuke shouldn't leave anything alive except the caster. The caster should survive the nuke. The caster may be up to 20th level.

Let's get nukin'.

My first idea is using frosty tricks to make a Locate City do damage, and go from there, possibly with Explosive Spell. The spells range is barely enough to allow the caster to be outside of it. Barely.

You could also go about buffing up a Fireball as much as possible, but it'll still have to one-shot most anything. And it's a rather (relatively)small area to start with.

What are your ideas?

Kill everything at max 20dx? How some creatures has around 3k hp.

40ft radius is not large. 100 ft is not large... you wanted a nuke right? A blast radius of Hisoshima bomb was 370m in diameter. Or 606 ft radius. So lets go for a solid 1000 ft radius blast.

I suggest 5d100/ level. That way you can destroy pretty much everything.

Mister Tom
2016-08-18, 01:54 PM
The only real problem with this particular approach is that it assumes D&D physics works like our own, and antimatter coming into contact with matter would cause an explosion as per normal. I've had a DM who straight up wouldn't allow antimatter to be created with magic ("magic makes matter, so to make antimatter you need to cast a spell with antimagic" or something, I believe his vague ruling-supporting explanation was).

Very sensible. And anyway I guess my character wouldn't know what it was.

Mister Tom
2016-08-24, 01:53 PM
Can you cast gate into the heart of a star?

Flickerdart
2016-08-24, 02:09 PM
Can you cast gate into the heart of a star?

A gate cannot be opened to another point on the same plane; the spell works only for interplanar travel.

Even if you could find a star on another plane, there's nothing in the spell about planar conditions spilling over.

AvatarVecna
2016-08-24, 03:00 PM
Can you cast gate into the heart of a star?

Soemthing like this was used in the "destroying the world handbook" that got put together awhile back: basically, you make a Gate to some other plane, and once you're in that plane, you set up a gate right next to the other one that leads to a spot on the Material Plane...specifically, a star. Now, in addition to the issue Flickerdart pointed out about planar conditions not necessarily crossing through the Gate, it's also worth mentioning that stars don't necessarily work the same way in magic land as they do here; there's no guarantee that those tiny spots of light in the sky are really far away balls of plasma. In Eberron, I'm pretty sure the stars are scales (or scale-less spot?) of the Dragon Above, for instance, although whether you believe that's literal or just metaphorical in-universe is another debate.

Âmesang
2016-08-24, 04:18 PM
Alternatively you could cast Fistandantilus' portal from the DRAGONLANCE® Campaign Setting; effectively a same-plane gate that takes longer to cast, requires a material and XP component, and doesn't allow for extraplanar calling.

Hecuba
2016-08-25, 01:08 PM
Alternatively you could cast Fistandantilus' portal from the DRAGONLANCE® Campaign Setting; effectively a same-plane gate that takes longer to cast, requires a material and XP component, and doesn't allow for extraplanar calling.

IIRC, there are less punishing same-plane portals floating around Forgotten Realms (though I believe they are items rather than directly cast spells).


More generally, the question of whether environmental effects flow through a portal has been (to my memory) only ever explicitly answered once: in 2nd edition's Dark Sun setting, it explicitly did not happen for Gate but explicitly did happen for the Psionic High Science Wormhole.

Wormhole became harder to pull off as the distance increased (among other things), so a star was out. It was, however, somewhat infamous for allowing things like emptying the magma chambers of volcanoes onto cities.

Âmesang
2016-08-26, 11:40 AM
The Planar Handbook also has the precipitate breach and precipitate complete breach spells, but the destination is random.

"This larger affected area exists on both affected planes and contains the traits of both affected planes."

Maybe cast it until you hit the Plane of Fire or Plane of Negative Energy? :smalltongue:

Madara
2016-08-26, 12:09 PM
Get some flux slime (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/obstacles.htm#fluxSlime) (via a bottle of that shadow stuff? Oh! A chaos flask I think?)

Drop it on the area. When it's destroyed, awful things will happen, maybe even disintegration. Can anyone hook me up with a spell/ability that rigs the random result of a d% table?

Mister Tom
2016-08-31, 04:00 AM
Soemthing like this was used in the "destroying the world handbook" that got put together awhile back: basically, you make a Gate to some other plane, and once you're in that plane, you set up a gate right next to the other one that leads to a spot on the Material Plane...specifically, a star. Now, in addition to the issue Flickerdart pointed out about planar conditions not necessarily crossing through the Gate, it's also worth mentioning that stars don't necessarily work the same way in magic land as they do here; there's no guarantee that those tiny spots of light in the sky are really far away balls of plasma.

Thanks for the answer!
I would expect gate of a gate to cause widespread destruction if you cast it into a star ( a sol- like one at least) simply because of the massive ambient pressure inside the star; should work a bit like a rocket exhaust, except that rocket exhausts usually leave adjacent city states habitable.

If stars didn't work for the reasons you give ( and again, it might reasonably be objected by the GM that characters would not know enough about stars to target them), then how about the bottom of the ocean? Wouldn't exactly be a nuke, but wouldn't be readily survivable either. Indeed, it's already been done in a well known fantasy setting. (https://xkcd.com/969/)

AvatarVecna
2016-08-31, 05:57 AM
Thanks for the answer!
I would expect gate of a gate to cause widespread destruction if you cast it into a star ( a sol- like one at least) simply because of the massive ambient pressure inside the star; should work a bit like a rocket exhaust, except that rocket exhausts usually leave adjacent city states habitable.

If stars didn't work for the reasons you give ( and again, it might reasonably be objected by the GM that characters would not know enough about stars to target them), then how about the bottom of the ocean? Wouldn't exactly be a nuke, but wouldn't be readily survivable either. Indeed, it's already been done in a well known fantasy setting. (https://xkcd.com/969/)

Acting under the assumption that the Gate allows water on one side to come through to the other (which isn't exactly RAW, as Flickerdart pointed out), you don't need to double-Gate; that same "Destroy The World" Handbook points out how a Gate to the Elemental Plane Of Water could easily fulfill the same purpose.

The biggest problem with this approach is that Gate doesn't stay open for very long; this isn't a problem for the star-cannon approach, because the heat coming through would flash-fry the entire planet, but as the comic you linked to pointed out, water can only flow through an extradimensional Gate so quickly.

Mister Tom
2016-08-31, 12:33 PM
Acting under the assumption that the Gate allows water on one side to come through to the other (which isn't exactly RAW, as Flickerdart pointed out), you don't need to double-Gate; that same "Destroy The World" Handbook points out how a Gate to the Elemental Plane Of Water could easily fulfill the same purpose.

The biggest problem with this approach is that Gate doesn't stay open for very long; this isn't a problem for the star-cannon approach, because the heat coming through would flash-fry the entire planet, but as the comic you linked to pointed out, water can only flow through an extradimensional Gate so quickly.

True- although 200 m/s is deadly enough, it's not going to destroy much more than the buildings in front of it.

I wonder if there's an elemental plane of Sodium? ( ignore that, I should do my own research...)

AvatarVecna
2016-08-31, 12:36 PM
True- although 200 m/s is deadly enough, it's not going to destroy much more than the buildings in front of it.

I wonder if there's an elemental plane of Sodium? ( ignore that, I should do my own research...)

I don't think so, at least in most standard depictions of the planes, although maybe there's a part of the Elemental Plane of Earth that's an endless salt flat? I dunno...there might be a layer of the Abyss that's nothing but salt mines demons force people to dig in (the salt is then distributed throughout the Abyss and is used for rubbing into the wounds of those tormented there).

Sapreaver
2016-09-01, 12:10 PM
My method for a nuke is a little obtuse and it does cost a fair bit but it should work to your specifications. And it has the added bonus of eating anything not resist entry to fire.

So first you make a big canister

Like so
[ ]

[________]
\ /

In the white part in between the brackets you load it up with animated crossbows that are told to auto shoot their bolts once it opens.

The bolts are animated objects that are set up with explosive runes and threaded with necklace of fireballs.
You also enchant the arrows to be able to dispelled the runes but with the lowest level cl dispelled magic. So it fails.
The explosives runes are changed via met am agi to deal fire damage so as to trigger the necklace of fireballs.
And yea boom
If you use type 7 necklace of fire balls it will deal 52d6 fire damage in ten feet.
And depending on how big your canister and how many cross bows you load in, you can potentially pepper an area very very large and very very densely. High density is wanted make sure most explode. But yea you can wreck a huge huge area it will cost a lot but everything 'should' no longer exist.