Two-weapon barbarian / rogue?

[Dalebert]

I know it's odd, but that's also what's fun about it. I just love the idea of a goblin going nutz on someone with a dagger in each hand and I feel like I can make it work with the help of sneak attack damage. Of course, if goblins were just a tease for SKT, I may go with a halfling. I still want it to be an effective build for toughness and damage.

I don't care much for barbarian past 5th or 6th so I'm thinking rogue the rest of the way. Bear totem for 3rd. 6th only matters for an extra rage and I'm not sure I even care about that. Three might be enough.

I'm seriously contemplating a level of fighter for second wind and two-weapon fighting style. It's a possible extra 5 dmg per round with str or dex maxxed.

I'm trying to decide
1) If I want a fighter level at all (probably)
2) If I want to go str build or dex build. Dex means I won't get the +2 up the three times from rage. Maybe it's not worth it. Dex feels more efficient especially since I'll get +2 and no str bonus.
3) How I want to get AC. Str build prolly means heavy armor. Dex means possibly eventually no armor which I admit sounds fun.

Stats:
Str 13 or max depending
Dex 14 or max depending
Con as high as possible after primary
Leftover pnts in Wis for saves

Thoughts? Does it make sense at all?
Note: I acknowledge that a goblin or halfling may be a suboptimal choice but there's just so much energy behind the idea of an all-goblin party.

[Arkhios]

First of all, barbarian / rogue is far from odd. It's actually quite effective combination.

Barbarian 6 is really good as a Totem Warrior. To add to the ridicule of a furious little gnat, Bear totem at 6th level (doubling your carrying capacity and become great at breaking stuff!) is going to be rather hilarious, imho), I'd suggest checking out all the options and give a second thought to taking the 6th level after all.

1) Take Fighter for the Two-Weapon Fighting Style (it's worth it for your concept) and of course for second wind. 2 levels for Action Surge ain't that bad either, but that's one level less rogue.
2) Don't bother with Dex build, if you want to get the most out of being a barbarian (even as little as only 5 levels). Rage bonus damage only applies when you attack using your Strength.
3) To get everything out of rage (including bonus to damage), a barbarian CAN'T wear Heavy Armor. Medium Armor is your go-to option unless you get to roll stats and roll insanely well (something like Str 18, Dex 16, Con 16 at the very least)

My suggestion, following through the above list:
Barbarian 6/Fighter1/Rogue 13 would net 5 ASI (as much as a full barbarian for example)

From barbarian 6 you'll get:
Rage +2 (4/day), Reckless Attack (advantage on attacks), Danger Sense, Primal Path (Totem Spirit+Aspect of the Beast), Extra Attack, Fast Movement

From rogue 13 you'll get:
Expertise x 2, Sneak Attack 7d6, Thieves' Cant, Cunning Action, Roguish Archetype features (3 out of 4; nice catch!), Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Extra ASI, Reliable Talent.
Compared to rogue 15 you'll only miss +1d6 sneak attack and Blindsense out to 10 feet (meh).
Besides, if you take at least 5 levels in barbarian for Extra Attack, you won't be getting the 17th level (4 out of 4) roguish archetype feature anyway. You won't get much beyond 13th level, honestly.

Leaving Dex at 14 or 16 if you roll well and take Medium Armor Master (it'll work nicely with the rogue part of you!), You can easily focus on working your Strength to 20, and leftovers into Con>Wis (in that order).

As for the races, if I understood it right, Goblins are definitely coming as a playable race in the Volo's Guide (or whatever it was called), as are many other monster races such as full orcs, and a few giant races even (wishful about Firbolg!)
If you go with Halfling instead, I would go with Stout, without questions.

Another, a rather wild card to consider: What about making a hill dwarf (they're shorter than mountain dwarves; you could fluff it that your character is even shorter than average for your race) and going into Battlerager. 6th level feature from the Path is a strong incentive to use reckless attack as much as possible (advantage on all attacks = sneak attack benefits quite likely each turn, whether or not you're the only one in melee, and your survivability increases quite a bit).

[Foxhound438]

0) it might be worth grabbing the 2wf feat, and use rapiers. it's not in line with your concept, but an extra 6 damage on average is pretty good.

0.5) probably do take 5 in barbarian, extra attack is truly great. Especially for rogue multiclasses.

1) 1 fighter level is definitely beneficial, although not hugely "fun" or "interesting". just a bit more damage.

2) Between str and dex builds, since AC is largely irrelevant (explained below), dex is definitely worse in my opinion. You end up behind an ASI early if you have no racial bonus, but it's really only half an ASI if you start with 15 str and 17 con (as you can with the zendikar planeshifted goblins). You even end up with the same end scenario of having the option of having 20's in both and a feat as you would with a 16, 16 start.

3) don't go heavy armor. it turns off most of your rage benefits. If you do go str build, probably either pump con or use medium armor. However, for all barbarians, AC is not hugely impactful. Your defense comes from damage resistance. Your AC will probably irrelevant, as you probably want to reckless attack all the time, and at that point you're basically getting hit no matter what. You lean hard on that resistance, since doing so improves your damage so drastically.

[Lombra]

Barbarogue is pretty effective: sneak attack every round and knocking prone/grappling anything in your way is very good (because you want to expertise athletics) I wouldn't use heavy armor because rage and extra movement are really useful. Just keep the medium armor that gives you the max AC, unless you are able to get an higher score via unarmored defense. Plus I'd consider eagle over bear for the 3rd level totem feature: in the long run your HPs aren't going to be THAT much, so at least you should be able to safely kite around enemies if they're in a messy situation.

[Arkhios]

Barbarogue is pretty effective: sneak attack every round and knocking prone/grappling anything in your way is very good (because you want to expertise athletics) I wouldn't use heavy armor because rage and extra movement are really useful. Just keep the medium armor that gives you the max AC, unless you are able to get an higher score via unarmored defense. Plus I'd consider eagle over bear for the 3rd level totem feature: in the long run your HPs aren't going to be THAT much, so at least you should be able to safely kite around enemies if they're in a messy situation.

To be honest, eagle totem conflicts with two-weapon fighting build. Dash as a bonus action denies you from your off-hand attack. Granted, it's not likely to happen every turn, but it's still one more option for bonus action (which you only have 1/turn). Although having disadvantage on opportunity attacks against you is rather handy, being able shrug off almost any damage fits well for a cuckoo little gnat, who most likely preferably just wades into combat without thinking it through.

[JellyPooga]

To be honest, eagle totem conflicts with two-weapon fighting build.

More to the point, you'll be grabbing Cunning Action from Rogue, so the Bonus Action Dash portion of Eagle Totem is wasted. If you want the extra mobility, I'd advise springing for the Mobility feat; ignoring Difficult Terrain when you're Dashing is pure gold.

My personal choice would be Wolf Totem. Not so much of benefit to you, but the notion of a distracting little whirlwind of a dervish slaughtering his way through a pack of enemies giving everyone else advantage on their attack rolls seems somewhat appropriate!

[Dalebert]

To get everything out of rage (including bonus to damage), a barbarian CAN'T wear Heavy Armor.

I can't believe I missed that. Somehow I got it in my head that all I'd be giving up is the extra movement. Obviously I will not be going heavy. I'll go medium up until my unarmed defense beats it. Shame because that was what made me originally consider a fighter level but I still think the other perks make it work.


Another, a rather wild card to consider: What about making a hill dwarf

But then I wouldn't be a goblin in an all-goblin party.


it might be worth grabbing the 2wf feat, and use rapiers. it's not in line with your concept, but an extra 6 damage on average is pretty good.

That feels far more expensive than a one-level dip to me especially for a character that is more dependent than usual on ASIs, and I frankly see it as a sub-par feat compared to other feats.


probably do take 5 in barbarian, extra attack is truly great. Especially for rogue multiclasses.

Of course. This was never in question. Only lvl 6 was in question.


but it's really only half an ASI if you start with 15 str and 17 con (as you can with the zendikar planeshifted goblins).

Are you sure that's an option? Because that would be awesome! I was just assuming I'd have 15/15 and take +1/+1 at 4th.


Plus I'd consider eagle over bear for the 3rd level totem feature: in the long run your HPs aren't going to be THAT much, so at least you should be able to safely kite around enemies if they're in a messy situation.

JellyPooga beat me to it but eagle does not fit this build. If I really need to, I already have bonus action disengage as a rogue. I can take normal or even boosted movement past enemies already. And with two attacks from barbarian 5, possibly reckless, I have a great chance to land sneak already in a pinch without off-hand. It feels redundant whereas bear feels pretty crucial for toughness. I want good consistent damage output but I also want to be able to tank really well. That said, wolf might make sense for this build. It incentivizes allies to come up and be adjacent to help me get sneak attack. I was really set on bear but I will consider it. Maybe 2nd wind will help make up for some of that toughness lost.

[smcmike]

I don't think Barb 6 is worth much. I like Barb 5 Rogue 15.

Though I have to admit the image of a little goblin carrying around some enourmous sack of loot is fun.

[JellyPooga]

I was really set on bear but I will consider it.

It's worth bearing in mind that all Bear totem does is widen the scope of your resistance. The majority of damage you'll be sucking up (i.e. weapon damage) you already resist as a regular every-day Barbarian, so only spring for Bear Totem if you think you'll need the extra vs. elemental or divine (i.e. necrotic/radiant) damage.

In short, you'll get solid use out of Wolf Totem in almost every fight you enter, whilst Bear will help you maybe once or twice on a good day.

[Dalebert]

Though I have to admit the image of a little goblin carrying around some enourmous sack of loot is fun.

For sure if I do it, it will be for the extra rage, but I would def go bear for this fun stuff.


In short, you'll get solid use out of Wolf Totem in almost every fight you enter, whilst Bear will help you maybe once or twice on a good day.

This is a good point, and wolf really does seem synergistic with this build for the reasons given.

[Innocent_bystan]

It's worth bearing in mind that all Bear totem does is widen the scope of your resistance. The majority of damage you'll be sucking up (i.e. weapon damage) you already resist as a regular every-day Barbarian, so only spring for Bear Totem if you think you'll need the extra vs. elemental or divine (i.e. necrotic/radiant) damage.

Also note that the bear totem doesn't have the not in heavy armor clause. This is very interesting on fighter/barbarian multiclasses.

[Dalebert]

Also note that the bear totem doesn't have the not in heavy armor clause. This is very interesting on fighter/barbarian multiclasses.

Interesting! I bet it's an oversight but it does appear to work by RAW. Still you lose all the other benefits of raging. I'll probably just stick to medium or unarmored defense and go wolf. I think I'll be tough enough. And who knows? Maybe I'll get my hands on some bracers of defense or something.

It's worth nothing that my HP are going to lag behind a full barbarian's.

That reminds me of another question. Which class do I take first? Barbarian seems the most obvious for the HP, but dex save prof seems quite valuable also considering it will work with both barbariand and rogue class features (danger sense, evasion) and my dex will be lower than my con. In the long run, being able to avoid dmg completely via evasion or danger sense seems like it will add up to a lot more than just having a flat 4 more HP. My con saves will be decent just from investing so much in con.

[JellyPooga]

Interesting! I bet it's an oversight but it does appear to work by RAW. Still you lose all the other benefits of raging. I'll probably just stick to medium or unarmored defense and go wolf. I think I'll be tough enough. And who knows? Maybe I'll get my hands on some bracers of defense or something.

It's worth nothing that my HP are going to lag behind a full barbarian's.

That reminds me of another question. Which class do I take first? Barbarian seems the most obvious for the HP, but dex save prof seems quite valuable also considering it will work with both barbariand and rogue class features (danger sense, evasion) and my dex will be lower than my con. In the long run, being able to avoid dmg completely via evasion or danger sense seems like it will add up to a lot more than just having a flat 4 more HP. My con saves will be decent just from investing so much in con.

The extra HP is just a bonus for going Barbarian first; the real issue is Saving Throws.

Str and Con are both solid. You'll never regret having them. Many save-or-sucks ask for Str Saves and Con Saves need no introduction, do they?

Dex and Int, on the other hand...well Dex is handy, granted, but I can safely say that you could probably go through an entire 1-20 campaign and never have to make an Int Save. Having proficiency in Int Saves is less useful than the Thieves Cant feature; they may as well have just given Rogues one Save Prof.

That difference is big. Big enough to forgo the extra Skill Prof you get by going Rogue first. If you were ever thinking of picking up the Resilient feat (which is always solid option), then picking up either Dex or Wis proficiency on top of Str+Con is a much more attractive prospect than trying desperately to make up for the slack that Int Save proficiency leaves.

[Dalebert]

The extra skills are just icing so I wouldn't be doing it for that reason. Again, I'm thinking of the extra toughness provided by evasion and danger sense when I already have a high con.

Resilient doesn't feel like much of an option in a character who desperately needs his ASIs UNLESS MAYBE I use it in a stat that I'm trying to max like con. It would feel painful to use it on dex and not get any boost at all to str or con from 4 levels of progress. I guess I can consider going rogue 1st and then taking resilient con at 4th.

The alternative would be start with odds in maxxed str and con, put +1 each at 4th and then resilient dex at 8th(ish) around when I'm close to getting evasion. It would be feel like it matters less if I go bear totem at barb3 rather than wolf. Then I could cut all those blasty dmg spells in half regardless.

[Innocent_bystan]

0) it might be worth grabbing the 2wf feat, and use rapiers. it's not in line with your concept, but an extra 6 damage on average is pretty good.

Or just use shortswords, 1d6 instead of 1d8 won't make a big difference.

[Dalebert]

Or just use shortswords, 1d6 instead of 1d8 won't make a big difference.

Yeah, actually the only benefit of daggers is being able to throw them in a pinch but not sure it makes sense for this build which is about up-close-and-personal. I'll probably do that. And this just makes the TWF feat seem even more not worth it if I had any doubt.

[JellyPooga]

The alternative would be start with odds in maxxed str and con, put +1 each at 4th and then resilient dex at 8th(ish) around when I'm close to getting evasion. It would be feel like it matters less if I go bear totem at barb3 rather than wolf. Then I could cut all those blasty dmg spells in half regardless.

Hmm...without knowing the Ability Score mods for a Goblin, let's assume +2 Dex, +1 Con. Using Standard Array;

Str:14, Dex:13+2, Con:15+1, Int:8, Wis:12, Cha:10

Lvl.1: Barbarian (1)
Lvl.2-5: Rogue (4) - Resilient (Dex)
Lvl.6-9: Barbarian (5) - ASI (+2 Str)
Lvl.10+: Rogue (15) - ASI (+2 Str), ASI (+2 Str), ASI (+2 Con)

Str:20, Dex:16, Con:18, Int:8, Wis:12, Cha:10

Seems a reasonable build. You've got Save Proficiency in Str, Dex, Con AND Wis (the last of which only at lvl.20, admittedly). You've maxed out Str and still have good Dex and Con.

You could drop a level of Rogue for Fighter to grab TWF-Style and still come out with the same stats in the end (though you'd lose Slippery Mind and 1d6 worth of Sneak Attack...not sure I'd take that trade).

Dual-wield scimitars and you're golden.

[Dalebert]

Your priorities seem different from mine. I first and foremost want him to be a viable tank. Decent defense comes first. Assuming I decide not to take rogue first, I'd grab fighter at 2nd for second wind and twf-style, then get to 5 or 6 in barb and only take rogue levels after. I am leaning heavily toward not taking rogue first.

Str:15, Dex:13+2, Con:15+1, Int:8, Wis:12, Cha:8

If +2 Con was an option, I'd max that and take +1 str, +1 con first to get 16/18. Then I'd take resilient dex as my second ASI. At that point, I'd probably be unarmored and have 17 AC.

I rarely think too hard about lvl 20 because I may not even get that far. I have to think about keeping him as effective as possible all along the way. Being primarily barbarian and fighting with two shortsword with twf-style and having second wind if needed is pretty decent at those lower levels. I'll be +4 with each hit and then +5 with each hit and have three attacks at lvl 6. Then sneak attack will continue to stack well with that thereafter.

[R.Shackleford]

I know it's odd, but that's also what's fun about it. I just love the idea of a goblin going nutz on someone with a dagger in each hand and I feel like I can make it work with the help of sneak attack damage. Of course, if goblins were just a tease for SKT, I may go with a halfling. I still want it to be an effective build for toughness and damage.

I don't care much for barbarian past 5th or 6th so I'm thinking rogue the rest of the way. Bear totem for 3rd. 6th only matters for an extra rage and I'm not sure I even care about that. Three might be enough.

I'm seriously contemplating a level of fighter for second wind and two-weapon fighting style. It's a possible extra 5 dmg per round with str or dex maxxed.

I'm trying to decide
1) If I want a fighter level at all (probably)
2) If I want to go str build or dex build. Dex means I won't get the +2 up the three times from rage. Maybe it's not worth it. Dex feels more efficient especially since I'll get +2 and no str bonus.
3) How I want to get AC. Str build prolly means heavy armor. Dex means possibly eventually no armor which I admit sounds fun.

Stats:
Str 13 or max depending
Dex 14 or max depending
Con as high as possible after primary
Leftover pnts in Wis for saves

Thoughts? Does it make sense at all?
Note: I acknowledge that a goblin or halfling may be a suboptimal choice but there's just so much energy behind the idea of an all-goblin party.


This reminds me, I need to update my barbarian build guide!


Barbarian Rogues are awesome and I would definitely go Str build. Strength Rogues are awesome themselves but adding Barbarian is just even more awesome sauce. The best part about this built is that you won't have to worry about boosting your main attack stat (sneak attack damage will take over). I can change this if you are ok with TWF with a shield...

Mountain Dwarf Urchin Barbarian 5 / Rogue 15 is a great build for this.

Level 1

Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 13
Cha: 12

AC: 14 (med armor) + 2 (dex) = 16

Skills: Athletics, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Perception

Items: Medium armor that doesn't give disadvantage to stealth (eventually)




Upon Further Level Up: Barbarian: Go bear. Rogue: Swashbuckler (expertise in athletics, stealth, perception, and persuasion). Due to how slippery you are and how you can rage... You shouldn't have a problem with your AC being low. Also Cunning Action helps you keep rage going due to that BA dash.

At first feat chance take the TWF feat, duel rapiers if you want but I'm not a huge fan of that feat... I would just use daggers as you can throw them. I would take Mobile however. You boost your speed AND get a free pseudo disengage.

Other Feats: I would just boost the hell out of Con or take whatever feats you want. Have fun with it.

[Dalebert]

Those seem like good ideas for someone who may be reading this thread so I'm glad you listed them; just not for me. Again, this is a tank. I don't want to build him around disengaging and making someone else a target. I want him to be able to take the heat. Bonus disengage is a nice perk in a pinch but I don't want it to be his go-to thing, and certainly not to the point of taking a feat for it. Rogue levels will already let him do it if he must.

I like raising str for the attack bonuses and not just for the damage. If I give some of that up for feats, I'd lean more toward something like sentinel, which works great for a rogue who also tanks.

I should point out that this is essentially my first ever tank. I have a DPS character I'm loving who is swashbuckler/bladesinger built around being dodgy as Hell. Someone suggested sentinel for him and it didn't fit but for this build, it might. This character is intended to be able to tank and keep mobs off other characters and he's my first. I've never built toward that before. I don't want to half-ass it now.

[GlenSmash!]

One thing to note. Reckless attack only works with attacks made using Strength. Reckless attack is also a great tanking ability as it provides incentive to attack you and not your allies.

To me this is the biggest disadvantage of the dex based barb.

Also, the Goblins in the Zendikar supplement get +2 con.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/magic/Plane%20Shift%20Zendikar.pdf

[R.Shackleford]

One thing to note. Reckless attack only works with attacks made using Strength. Reckless attack is also a great tanking ability as it provides incentive to attack you and not your allies.

To me this is the biggest disadvantage of the dex based barb.

Also, the Goblins in the Zendikar supplement get +2 con.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/magic/Plane%20Shift%20Zendikar.pdf

Yup!

Though, it only works on strength based melee weapon attacks. Ask your DM if they will allow it with Strength based thrown weapon attacks too... Cause... Like... Why wouldn't the table I throw get a bonus to damage and be reckless?

[Dalebert]

I had said I was going strength but now I'm rethinking this and I'd like thoughts. It basically comes down to a trade-off between dmg and tankiness and most folks seem to be in favor of giving up a lot of toughness for a little extra damage. I'm not sure I feel that's worth it.

1) Goblins in SKT will probably have a dex bonus, probably even +2. I don't think Zendikar goblins will be an option but I'd like to be wrong.
2) My AC could potentially be fairly high when I get my con up and go unarmored with a shield if dex is also high. The shield might be nice once I have two attacks and thus a better chance of landing sneak without off-hand. It feels like a trade-off between AC or dmg, but the dmg increase isn't that much.
3) I'm probably not going to take a level of fighter after-all given that it's heavily based on two-weapon fighting and I'm leaning toward using a shield once I get two attacks. All it gains me is up to +5 IF I hit with the off-hand, and Second Wind, but SW will be pretty weak with only one level--d10+1. Meanwhile, I'd be giving up half of a sneak attack die and other bennies from the level of rogue I give up for it, i.e. a high opportunity cost. It made more sense for heavy armor but that was nipped in the bud--doesn't work for barbarians.
4) All I'd be giving up is up to +6 dmg while raging (+2 from two attacks and an off-hand), and reckless attack. The reckless attack has never been that appealing to me. These are losses to be sure, but are they worth what I'd give up, i.e. a stat that boosts both my attacks AND my AC and helps with all my rogue skills AND helps my dex saves which will be significant considering things like evasion and danger sense.

It just seems like dex is a LOT of bang for the buck on an unarmored character with evasion while +2 dmg per attack ain't that much. Reckless attack gives me one attack with advantage while making me vulnerable to all attacks, a steep price to pay. Admittedly, that could be very nice for a rogue to help land sneak attack, but there are other ways to finagle advantage. I could go arcane trickster and get an owl familiar that assists me every turn with flyby, for instance. I could go swashbuckler and get extra chances to get sneak attack without needing advantage. I could take the shield feat and knock enemies prone with a bonus action. Yes, that uses strength, but I will definitely be taking expertise in athletics and I'll probably still have a 14 (eventually) in whichever stat I decide not to focus on.

I feel like strength makes sense if you're more tunnel-vision focused on damage but dex makes more strength to make me a better tank and having a high sneak attack makes a few extra points of damage not seem that big a deal. *shrug*

[Waffle_Iron]

I played a tanky barb/rogue in a game up to level 14, with roughly equal levels of barb and rogue.

It played very well, and I did not regret the character choices.

I went wolf totem, and thief for my subclasses. Party comp was as follows:
V. Human pirate barb (wolf) 7/ rogue (thief) 7
Aarakockra urchin monk (shadow) 11 / ranger (hunter) 3
Mountain Dwarf soldier Druid (moon) 14
Half Elf Scholar bard (lore) 9-10 ?/ warlock (fiend, chain) 4-5 ?

So, my wolf totem played well with a monk and sometime wild shaped Druid. Thief was nice because it gave me a lot of needed options for object interaction.

My weapon choice was basically scimitar, plus one of: dagger, shield, open hand. If going for straight damage, dagger. If up against opponents that outnumbered us a bit, shield. And when up against a low-count, high-quality enemy, open hand for grapple.

My rogue expertise (first time) was in athletics and stealth.

My 2 ASI, were both in Con, so I had 20 Con at level 8.
With rage for advantage in athletics, I was able to prone or grapple most enemies, even with a STR 14, even at higher levels. And reckless attack meant I got to sneak attack, basically any time.

Here's my build at 1:

Nilyasa Singh

Human Pirate Barbarian

14 STR - athletics
14 DEX - stealth, sleight of hand
16 CON
10 INT
10 WIS - perception, survival
10 CHA

15 hp (12 + 3)
15 Ac (10 + DEX + CON), 17 with shield

Human versitilty
Bad reputation
Unarmored defense
Rage

Feat: sentinel

Level progression:
Barb 1-2
Rogue 1-2
Barb 3-4 (wolf)
Rogue 3-4 (thief)
Barb 5
Rogue 5-7
Barb 6-7

Any questions, please ask. :)

[Dalebert]

Any questions, please ask. :)

What would you have raised with your next ASI?

This isn't a far cry from the build I have in mind though I won't be human so that will change some things. I was also going to min/max a little more with physical vs. mental stats leaning toward maximizing dex and con and having a 14 str. I think I'll try to end up with an odd dex with resilient(dex) in mind.

[Joe the Rat]

If you're eyeing eagle for mobility, Elk totem might be worth a look - add 15' to movement while raging. That's half a dash added to your normal move, and hella dash if you Dash. Difficult terrain is still an issue, though. Mobile?

The nice thing about totems is you're not locked in to one beast. You could take wolf 3 to enhance your allies, then at 6 you could grab bear 6 for the breakage, or go back to bear 3 for the resistances (non-weapon damage should be appearing more often by this point).

[Dalebert]

If you're eyeing eagle for mobility, Elk totem might be worth a look

IMHO, those are the least attractive options for this build. They're fairly redundant with cunning action and don't really fit a build with its main focus on tanking. Once again, this is my first attempt at a tank and I want to be very good at that. Maneuvering around the battlefield strategically to avoid danger is SO MUCH FUN but I've got two characters now built for that and I'm going in a different direction. Conceded that I'm giving up some of that to be damage effective with sneak attack but that's also allowing me to focus my barbarian stuff on being tougher. There's so much versatility already built in from multiclassing rogue, but wolf at 3 does compliment that well by giving my allies extra incentive to come be next to me and help me get sneak attack.


The nice thing about totems is you're not locked in to one beast. You could take wolf 3 to enhance your allies, then at 6 you could grab bear 6 for the breakage, or go back to bear 3 for the resistances (non-weapon damage should be appearing more often by this point).

Right. The plan has wolf at 3 and bear at 6 though thank you for making me look in the SCAG because tiger at 6 ain't bad if I just want to be a crazy skill-monger.

[Waffle_Iron]

What would you have raised with your next ASI?

This isn't a far cry from the build I have in mind though I won't be human so that will change some things. I was also going to min/max a little more with physical vs. mental stats leaning toward maximizing dex and con and having a 14 str. I think I'll try to end up with an odd dex with resilient(dex) in mind.

I think I'd be tempted by skulker. Having expertise in stealth was good, but skulker would have pushed it over the top.

I wanted shield master, but there was already so much competing for my bonus action, that it was a rare, rare occurrence that I failed to take one.