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Munimasa
2016-08-18, 07:23 AM
Okay so I always like to multiclass Monk/Rogue but had an annoying progression so I made this to try and balance a permanent mix between the two, It has nothing really to do with either and the flavor text is still gibberish, but the class it self is good and done.

It is originally made to work with a Homebrew Race of melancholic anthromorphic rabbits but it works on its own.
the race(Taoshu) is heavily inspired by the asian culture and uses some none standard weapons which is also listed.

first some new Properties -
Keen: Weapons with this property has its Threat Range increased by 1(score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20). Note: if you gain increased Threat Range from another source this stacks with it.
Variable: Weapons with this property can be used to deal different type of damage. A damage type in a parentheses with this property - the damage type may be used to inflict damage instead of the listed damage type.
1-H: Weapons with this property behave differently while wielded in one hand. The properties in the parentheses is active while the weapon is wielded in one hand.(1-H and 2-H nearly exclusively exist on weapons with Versatile)
2-H: Weapons with this property behave differently while wielded with two hands. The properties in the parentheses is active while the weapon is wielded with two hands.
Exotic: Weapons with this property gives the user Disadvantage when used without Proficiency.

The weapons themselves are pretty much re-skins of existing weapons and will be listed as such with their adjust
Nodachi: Greatsword, Keen, Exotic
Katana: LongSword, Keen, 2-H(Finesse), Exotic
Wakizashi: Shortsword, Keen, Variable(Slashing), Exotic
Tanto: Dagger, Keen, Variable(Slashing), Exotic


The body of a Disciple easily turn the enemy weapon away or even resists the blow from a weapon that reaches it, all before the Disciple lunges forward and strike the target,all at a supernatural speed. Obstacles such as walls, difficult terrain or even being knocked down is mere inconveniences and even the mind of others can be infiltrated and in the most extreme cases, controlled.
The Half-elf stands atop a balcony of the night-lit castle, draped in a full length cloak, scouting the hall below. In a fractionated instant she steps through the shadow to the lower level and lightly taps the guard only to disappear back to the balcony, now she sees with the guard’s eyes and only have to wait for a clear path to be revealed and then her debt to the Network will be paid, though the blackmail she had gained was definitely worth a small task such as this one.
A Dragon-Born in full plate armor climbs up from the sheer cliff wall without a pearl of sweat, swipes the cloak away with one hand and commands a variety of swords and knives to hover and then disperse with the other, all before drawing a massive curved blade. As the fighting progress the enemy realizes their attacks hardly scratches the slight layer of Chakra covering the Dragon-Born and is met with an attack no matter where they run as the weapons move with the slightest wave of the hand of the plated disciple.
The robe clad human rises from the seat she have had occupied for the last 200 years, having been sitting quietly meditating, to send an externalized wave of Chakra from her hands to the massive stone door, shattering it to to pebbles, the snarl of the rightly surprised Gnoll party doesn't make her flinch the least, though the weapon that appears in her hand does makes the Gnoll tilt their head with a concerned grunt.


Hit Dice: 1d8 per Disciple level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per Disciple level after 1st


Armor: none
Weapon: Simple Weapons, All Taoshu Weapons
Tools: none
Saving Throws: Dexterity/Wisdom
Skills: Choose two from: Athletics, Acrobatics, Investigation, Insight, Medicine, Perception


A) Katana & Wakizashi. B) Nodachi & Tanto. C) Any one Taoshu Weapon
A) Explorer's Pack. B) Dungeoneer's Pack


Chakra:
At 1st level your training allows you to harness the mystic energy of Chakra.
Your access to this energy is represented by a Chakra Die.
At 1st level you have 1d4, at 6th it becomes 2d6, at 11th 3d8, at 16th 4d10.
You can spend these Chakra Dice on various effects and when the effect resolves the spent Chakra Dice returns. For effects that last for an undetermined amount of time you can choose to end the effect at will and the Chakra returns immediately.
You may not activate the same effect twice in the same instance.
when you spend a Chakra Die on Unerring Strike the Chakra Die returns when the attack resolves, When you spend it on an effect Eight Spider Walk the effect ends when you choose to end it and then immediately returns the Chakra Die.
If you become Unconscious or if you sleep all Chakra Dice are returned and their effects end.
For any effect in Divine Arts or Chakra Strike, the save DC is: 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Wisdom Modifier

Chakra Arts:
These abilities cannot be used while wearing Armor or Shield.
Second Strike: You may Spend a Chakra Die to be able to make an attack as a Bonus Action.
Superior Mobility: At the start of your Turn you may spend a Chakra Die to gain +20 ft. movement until the end of your Turn.
Unerring Strike: When you make an Attack you may Spend a Chakra Die to add your Dexterity Modifier(min. 1) to the attack roll on the attack.
Steel Body: When you are attacked, you can spend a Chakra Die to gain Resistance to either Slashing, Piercing or Bludgeoning against the attack.
Superior Deflection: When you are attacked, you may spend a Chakra Die gain a bonus to AC equal to your Dexterity Modifier against the attack.
Rejecting Attunement: When you are attacked, you may Spend a Chakra Die to gain Advantage on any roll made to resist an effect caused by the attack.
(also applies to spells and similar abilities)

Divine Arts:
Starting at 1st level, you gain access to a Divine Arts. To use these Arts you must complete a Short rest.
When you begin a Long or Short Rest, fall unconscious, fall asleep or at your will, your active Divine Art ends.
You may only activate one Divine Art when you finish the Short Rest.
Heavenly Recursion Method: You have an Additional Chakra Die while this is Active.
Kaleidoscopic Life Extension: You do not need to eat, drink,sleep and breath while this is active. You don’t age either. (all of those needs are suspended)
Banishing Spirit Ward: You may spend an Action to cure yourself of one Poison, Disease, Blinded or Deafened effect while this is active.
Wingless Flight Release: Your High Jump and Long Jump distance is Tripled and always count as having a running start while this is active.
Heavenly Rejuvenation Method: at the start of your Turn you may use one Hit Dice as though you had completed a Short Rest.
Insightful Mind Extension: you may gain Proficiency with any one Skill or Tool while this is active.
(you choose the Proficiency when you activate this Divine Art)
Evil Ghost Ward: You may become immune to Frightened,Charmed and have resistance to Psychic damage while this is active.
Ghostly Body Release: You may attempt to Hide while only in Lightly Obscured or in Dim Light and you double your Proficiency Bonus to Dexterity(Stealth) checks while this is active.

Eight Spider Walk:
Beginning at 2nd level, you may spend a Chakra Die as an Action or Bonus Action or Reaction to gain the ability to move up, down, and across vertical surfaces and upside down along ceilings, while leaving no more than one hand free.

Disciple Path:
When you reach 3rd level, you commit yourself to a disciple path: Infiltrator, Swordsman or Mystic. All detailed at the end of the class description. Your path grants you features at 3rd level and again at 6th, 11th and 17th level.

Ability Score Improvement:
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your
choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1.
As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Striking Flow:
Beginning at 5th level, you can at the Start of your Turn spend up to 4 Chakra Dice, until the End of your Turn you may make a number of additional Attacks when taking the Attack Action equal to the number of Chakra Dice Spend for this effect.
All Chakra Dice returns at the end of your Turn

Mystic Parkour:
At 5th Level, you may spend a Chakra Die as an Action or Bonus Action or Reaction to ignore the effects of moving through non magical difficult terrain and treat your Speed as though it is Ground, Crawl and Climb speed. while this is in effect you may also stand up from prone and mount a creature by spending 5 ft. speed instead of the normal cost.

Whispering Echo:
At 7th level, you may spend a Chakra Die as an Action to touch a willing target. If you do you and the target may communicate telepathically at will.
you may end any number of this effect at will. If your target becomes unconscious, incapacitated or dies the effect automatically ends.
You cannot use this to communicate with creatures that doesn’t have a language even if they are willing.

Chakra Conversion:
At 9th level when you finish a Short Rest you may spend up to 4 Hit-Dice to have an additional Chakra Die per Hit-Dice spent until you begin a Short or Long Rest. Unlike normal Chakra Dice these do not return when there effect ends.
If these Chakra Dice are not spent before you begin a Short or Long Rest, they disappear.

Mind Sensory:
At 10th level, spend a Chakra Die as an Action to touch a target, if the target is unwilling or unknowing about you attempting this they must make a Wisdom save. if the target is willing or fails its saving throw you always know their general attitude towards their current focus, a person having a drink while enjoying the mellow mood is likely to feel “content” or “happy”, while a person that is deeply conflicted about his economics will feel “anxious” or “desperate”, a sleeping person also emits a feeling but a dead person does not, regardless of their condition you know the state while this effect is active. you may end any number of these effects at free will.

Vitality Boost:
Beginning at 13th level, at the start of your Turn you may spend any number of Chakra Die to gain 2 Chakra dice worth of Temporary HP per spent Chakra Die. Your Chakra Dice returns when your Temporary HP is gone or when you forgo the HP at will.

Counter Strike:
Beginning at 14th level, when you are attacked, you may Spend a Chakra Die to use your Reaction to make a melee attack against the attacker.
this attack happens simultaneously with the attackers and the attack must be within the reach of your weapon.

Hunter Sensory:
At 15th level, you may spend a Chakra Die as an Action to touch a target, if the target is unwilling or unknowing about you attempting this they must make a Wisdom save. If the target is willing or fails its saving throw you always know the direction of the location towards the affected target as long as the target is on the same plane of existence, you also know when the target is within 30 ft. of you.
You may end any number of these effects at will, and the effect ends when the target is dead or enters another plane of existence.

Chakra Sensory:
At 18th level, you may Spend a Chakra Die as an Action, Bonus Action or Reaction to gain Blindsight(60 ft.). You may end this effect at will.

Possession:
At 20th level, you may spend a Chakra Die as an Action to touch a target, if the target is unwilling or unknowing about you attempting this they must make a Wisdom save. if the target is willing or fails the saving throw you can control their actions for the round this is done as an Action which directs all of their activity during the round. At the end of each turn you took control of the target they may repeat the saving throw.
You may not have more than one target affected by this ability and can end its effect at will.
The target is very much aware that an outside force had controlled them and what they have done and will to an extent attempt to seek revenge.
A target that succeeds the initial saving throw is immune to this ability until you have completed a Long Rest.[/SIZE]


Chakra Strike:
Beginning at 3rd level, when you make an attack you may up to 5 Chakra Dice to deal 2d6 additional damage of the same type as your weapon per Chakra Die Spent. you may only use a melee weapon or a thrown weapon to make this attack.

Shadow Walk:
At 6th level, you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another.
When you are in Dim Light or Darkness, you may spend a Chakra Die as a Bonus Action to teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in Dim Light or Darkness. You then have Advantage on the first melee attack you make before the end of the turn.

Third Eye Sensory:
Beginning at 11th level you may touch an individual as an Action and spend a Chakra Die, if the target is unwilling it must succeed a Wisdom saving Throw to resist this ability. if the target is willing or fails the saving throw you can see whatever the affected individual sees. if you have this effect active during combat you have Disadvantage on attacks and takes -4 to your AC. You can end this effect at will.
Since you can see through the target's eyes you may teleport to a location your target sees, if it is within 60 ft. of you.

Shadow Network:
Beginning at 17th level, you gain access to a dark network hidden in the disciple orders and holdings.
This network specialize in less reputable activities and can be helpful while in their good graces.
You may spend an Inspiration Point to gain one of the following benefits:
- One piece of significant Blackmail information on a publicly known member of a Society, this is always convincing enough for the target to perform favors that would risk the life of those near the target or cost him/her at least 50% of his/her wealth.
- Up to 50 GP worth of readily available Items, these items is loaned and must be returned unless they are consumables.
- One set of perfectly forged documents, this can withstand all but the most persistent scrutiny.
Location of one individual or group, this location is always true but the located target or group may have moved on since.
- A fence that can move up to 200 GP worth of stolen goods with no trace to you.
If the GM decides you cannot use the Inspiration Point for the effect chosen and if he/she does, your Inspiration Point is not spent.
If the GM wishes he/she can require you to succeed a DC 15 Wisdom(Investigation) roll to locate a member or location while in a metropolitan area.
The GM can waive the Inspiration Point cost and make the ability unusable until a favor have been repaid to the Network.

Swordman's Proficiency:
Beginning at 3rd level you gain Proficiency with all Armors and you may use Chakra Arts while wearing Armor.

Dancing Swords:
Beginning at 6th level, you may imbue a weapon you are wielding with Chakra as an Action. While the weapon is imbued it becomes alive and can be used to attack.The weapon may occupy the same space as another creature unless the creature is 2 sizes larger than you. You can make it attack a target within the reach of the weapons position as a replacement for one of your own attacks, and you may move the weapon by spending your own movement, though the weapon ignores difficult terrain. you may have up to 4 weapons imbued at a time and may end any number of imbuements at will. each weapon must be one-handed or be held one handed if it is versatile.

Rushing Armaments:
Beginning at 11th level, you may, as an Action, move each imbued weapon up to number of feet equal your own speed.
In addition, at all times when an ally or yourself, occupies a space with an imbued weapon you and/or an ally gain +2 to the AC.
this bonus AC cannot stack with itself.

Violent Blade Storm:
Beginning at 17th level, as an Action you may make each imbued weapon attack every enemy within the individual weapons reach, you only roll once per weapon for the attack and can only make melee attacks. [/SIZE]

Chakra Weaponry:
Beginning at 3rd level, you may spend a Chakra Die as an Action, to create a melee weapon made of Chakra.
The weapon acts for all intents and purpose the same way as it's crafted counterpart, but you can dismiss any weapon at will.

Chakra Wave:
Beginning at 6th level, you may spend up to 4 Chakra Dice as an Action to create a wave of energy.
every target in a 50 ft. line takes 1 Chakra Dies worth of Force damage per Chakra Die spent, those who succeed a Dexterity save takes half.

Greater Divine Arts:
Beginning at 11th level, While you have a Divine Art active, you may spend a Chakra Die and touch a willing target to grant the target the the effect of your active Divine Art. the target is affected by the Divine Art as though they had activated it themselves.
You may end the effect on any target at will.

Superior Divine Arts:
Beginning at 17th level, when you complete a Short Rest you may activate two different Divine Arts.

That is it, hope you all like it, any feedback is welcome.

JNAProductions
2016-08-18, 10:21 AM
The weapons should NOT have Keen. That's solely the area of the Champion.

You get two strong saves-that's too much.

I'd look over it more, but the small text is getting hard to read. Spoilering it is fine, but the small text is rather annoying. Could you resize it to normal?

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 10:28 AM
The weapons should NOT have Keen. That's solely the area of the Champion.
Hmm point considered


You get two strong saves-that's too much.
please elaborate... the saves written seem the most logical to the class


I'd look over it more, but the small text is getting hard to read. Spoilering it is fine, but the small text is rather annoying. Could you resize it to normal?
size changed

Lalliman
2016-08-18, 10:29 AM
Wow, this is dense. Good job putting so much thought into this. Unfortunately, it has a bunch of problems. It’s so dense in fact that I find it impossible to estimate the power of the class as a coherent whole, so I’ll just have to barf out my thoughts on each feature individually. I’m skipping some parts that I’m currently unsure about, such as chakra strike, in favour of keeping the size of this post manageable.

Major issues
(*) The fact that your chakra dice return immediately after the effect finishes is crazy exploitable. Take, for instance, the following scenario:
1. Say you have two chakra dice. At the start of your turn, you spend both to gain two extra attacks.
2. You make your normal attack and the first extra attack, gaining back one of your chakra dice.
3. You make the second extra attack, and use your regained chakra die to enhance it with unerring strike. The attack resolves and you get both dice back.
4. You spend one of your regained dice on second strike, and the other on enhancing the bonus action attack with unerring strike.
As a level 6 character, you just made 4 attacks as a single action, with up to a +4 bonus on two of them. Obviously that’s overpowered, and even if the class were balanced around these shenanigans, that would still be a problem, as it would require a very calculated and munchkinny mindset to play the class properly. To me, that doesn’t seem like something you want to encourage.
Possible solution: Your chakra returns at the start and/or end of your turn, provided the effect it's being used for has ended.
(From here on, I’ll assume that this change is already made, otherwise I’ll keep going into how the various features can be exploited due to the chakra return system.)

(*) Tying into the above problem are the defensive arts: steel body, superior deflection, rejecting attunement. Because they take no action and your chakra returns instantly after their resolution, they can be used an infinite number of times per round. The above suggestion fixes the worst of this, but could have multiple results. If you let the chakra return at the start AND end of your turn, you can still use these arts up to four times per round, at no cost to the actions you take on your turn. Considering that the rogue can only use uncanny dodge once per round, and it takes up their reaction (which this does not), that’s still pretty crazy. So either you could make these arts take up your reaction (though that would render the chakra cost rather moot), or you could only regain your chakra at the start of your turn. I prefer the latter, as that means that, in order to use these defensive arts, you have to make the strategic decision not to use all your chakra during your turn. This change would be a hit to the class’ power, but it seems to me that that’s necessary anyways.

(*) Heavenly Rejuvenation Method is crazy powerful. It allows you to have almost twice your normal health when it matters, in return for drawing upon your future resources, which is a small price to pay for not dying. At least, I assume that this is usable every round until your HD run out, which is what the wording seems to imply.

(*) The infiltrator and mystic have no armour proficiency and no unarmoured defence, which means their AC caps at 15. On a d8 frontline class. Is this an oversight, or is it intentional to make up for how powerful they are offensively? I really wouldn’t recommend that approach, as playing a glass cannon in a dice-based game is… frustrating. It’s probably best to give the infiltrator and mystic the monk’s unarmoured defence. This would also contribute towards solving the next issue.

(*) Despite the monk-like flavour, almost no use is made of wisdom. It’s just used for those situational sensory abilities, so if you care more about combat ability, you’ll be better off leaving it at 10. Perhaps the chakra arts that scale with dex can scale with wis instead?

Minor issues
- Is it really beneficial to put everything in separate hiders?

- I think the variable weapon property is best left to common sense. Otherwise you have to go apply it to like a third of the core weapons as well.

- The class should probably have proficiency in simple weapons. The game works on the assumption that if you can use any amount of martial weapons, you can use the simple ones as well.

- It's unconventional to give a class two major saves. The monk has proficiency in Str instead of Wis for this reason. It probably won't break the game if you don't follow this rule, but it's a good baseline expectation to stick to. In case you don't know, the major saves are Dex, Con, Wis and the minor ones are Str, Int, Cha.

- The wording used in the third line of the Chakra ability seems to imply that at high level, you have a single chakra die, which is a 4d10. Of course, that's not a single die, but neither is the 2d6 damage die of the greatsword. See the Battle Master's superiority dice for a clearer wording.

- Why are Eight Spider Walk and Mystic Parkour usable as a reaction?

- Swordsman’s Proficiency: It’s silly to get proficiency in heavy armour but not in the lighter ones. Just give them proficiency with everything.

- Chakra weaponry has no actual benefit unless you’re disarmed, and takes up one of your chakra points in the process. This is one of the few features that could use a buff.

JNAProductions
2016-08-18, 10:32 AM
Hmm point considered

please elaborate

size changed

Thank you!

There are three strong saves-Dexterity, Wisdom, and Constitution. The others are weak. Strong saves are deadly and come up a lot. Weak saves are typically less important and less frequent. Each class has one weak and one strong save.

Evil Ghost Ward is too much for a level 1 feature.

Striking Flow is... My god. You gave a class Extra Attack (4) at level 5! LEVEL 5! What were you thinking?

Right, not even going to look over the subclasses. The issue is, Chakra Dice come back really damn fast. As in, you'll basically never be out of them. This class needs SERIOUS rebalancing.

khadgar567
2016-08-18, 10:44 AM
Kaleidoscopic Life Extension is really and really good first level immortality unless you die in battle is sorry to say but munchkin level good just one level into this class and you are basicly immortal from highlander
and class table would be nice

JNAProductions
2016-08-18, 10:46 AM
Kaleidoscopic Life Extension is really and really good first level immortality unless you die in battle is sorry to say but munchkin level good just one level into this class and you are basicly immortal from highlander

That's a good point. While mechanically, it really doesn't do much, fluffwise... That's pretty dang OP. Think about other things people do for immortality.

Maybe have it halve food and drink requirements, and not affect aging at all?

khadgar567
2016-08-18, 10:49 AM
That's a good point. While mechanically, it really doesn't do much, fluffwise... That's pretty dang OP. Think about other things people do for immortality.

Maybe have it halve food and drink requirements, and not affect aging at all?
and we still have the chakra technique where you can get whole lot of situational benefits by simple dip in to this class
like more speed to reach the position or other techniques for other benifits

Rerem115
2016-08-18, 10:54 AM
You could have that function like the Monk, where you age and can die of old age, you just don't suffer the penalties of aging.

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 11:03 AM
:smalleek: .... okay here goes

Wow, this is dense. Good job putting so much thought into this. Unfortunately, it has a bunch of problems. It’s so dense in fact that I find it impossible to estimate the power of the class as a coherent whole, so I’ll just have to barf out my thoughts on each feature individually. I’m skipping some parts that I’m currently unsure about, such as chakra strike, in favour of keeping the size of this post manageable.
I am not sure what is so dense about this, in the published books font size 8, single line space seems to be the norm. The format of my text could use some spaces between each entry in the multiabilities(such as Divine Arts)



Major issues
(*) The fact that your chakra dice return immediately after the effect finishes is crazy exploitable. Take, for instance, the following scenario:
1. Say you have two chakra dice. At the start of your turn, you spend both to gain two extra attacks.
2. You make your normal attack and the first extra attack, gaining back one of your chakra dice.
3. You make the second extra attack, and use your regained chakra die to enhance it with unerring strike. The attack resolves and you get both dice back.
4. You spend one of your regained dice on second strike, and the other on enhancing the bonus action attack with unerring strike.
As a level 6 character, you just made 4 attacks as a single action, with up to a +4 bonus on two of them. Obviously that’s overpowered, and even if the class were balanced around these shenanigans, that would still be a problem, as it would require a very calculated and munchkinny mindset to play the class properly. To me, that doesn’t seem like something you want to encourage.
Possible solution: Your chakra returns at the start and/or end of your turn, provided the effect it's being used for has ended.
(From here on, I’ll assume that this change is already made, otherwise I’ll keep going into how the various features can be exploited due to the chakra return system.)

You have a point that the class in itself is munchkinny, much more than intended, I personally don care much for munchkinning.
The idea about the current functionallity of the Chakra was that every ability(literally every ability) requires a Chakra Die to activate meaning that the long term effects such as the Sensories and Walk/parkour can not be used while using combat specific abilities, if I where standing on a cliff side fighting of some flying creep I would fall if returning the Chakra spent on Eight Spider Walk. the same coin applies to the Sensories I don't always have the target available to re-apply the Sensories, meaning the Chakra spend on those could not be returned if the target was valuable.

I understand your Point and will consider an effective way I can feel satisfied with.



(*) Tying into the above problem are the defensive arts: steel body, superior deflection, rejecting attunement. Because they take no action and your chakra returns instantly after their resolution, they can be used an infinite number of times per round.

With exception of the Swordsman its the only defensive capabilities they get, making each of them a Reaction would make the class a true glass cannon, regardless of the fixing the spend/return problem you stated ealier.



(*) Heavenly Rejuvenation Method is crazy powerful. It allows you to have almost twice your normal health when it matters, in return for drawing upon your future resources, which is a small price to pay for not dying. At least, I assume that this is usable every round until your HD run out, which is what the wording seems to imply.

it could be reduce to spending a HD and gain +2 HP instead, and yes it is intentional to be able to use HD until all is used



(*) The infiltrator and mystic have no armour proficiency...

yes intentional because it forces spending Chakra which could be used for sustaining other effects, the Spend/return solution migates their only means of defence



(*) Despite the monk-like flavour...

I would consider Int before Dex for Chakra purpose, in my mind the Chakra is not really tied to the physical body

Minor issues
- Is it really beneficial to put everything in separate hiders?



- I think the variable weapon property is best left to common sense. Otherwise you have to go apply it to like a third of the core weapons as well.

some people I work with have a remarkable lack of the common sense, so yes i paint as clearly as I can but noted.



- The class should probably have proficiency in simple weapons. The game works on the assumption that if you can use any amount of martial weapons, you can use the simple ones as well.

fair point will add.



...In case you don't know, the major saves are Dex, Con, Wis and the minor ones are Str, Int, Cha.

I did not know this so thanks.



- The wording used in the third line of the Chakra ability seems to imply that at high level, you have a single chakra die, which is a 4d10. Of course, that's not a single die, but neither is the 2d6 damage die of the greatsword. See the Battle Master's superiority dice for a clearer wording.

will look it up, this is an excellent example of me painting a picture wrongly.



- Why are Eight Spider Walk and Mystic Parkour usable as a reaction?

not sure, it seemed logical at the time...



- Swordsman’s Proficiency: It’s silly to get proficiency in heavy armour but not in the lighter ones. Just give them proficiency with everything.

fair point noted and changed



- Chakra weaponry has no actual benefit unless you’re disarmed, and takes up one of your chakra points in the process. This is one of the few features that could use a buff.
hmm yes, this seemed a bit dull, the idea for the Mystic was that it is the only one that can materialize the Chakra outside the body, creating a Weapon seemed to fit, will look into it.

okay this was a long one pardon the mistakes in this reply, because it think there will be some:smallsigh:

Rerem115
2016-08-18, 11:10 AM
I would recommend giving the core class unarmored defense; every martial class either has proficiency with some sort of armor or gets some form of unarmored defense. If the class had unarmored defense, you'd have a more solid baseline from which you could balance abilities.

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 11:11 AM
Evil Ghost Ward is too much for a level 1 feature.

the Divine Arts get plenty of flak(not undeserving) for the indivudual art, which is a point ofcourse but activating them is not done at will and requires for-thought in my opinion.



Striking Flow is... My god. You gave a class Extra Attack (4) at level 5! LEVEL 5! What were you thinking?

I am not sure have you can get the extra 4 attacks that early, the Chakra Die available to you should limit this to 2 extra attacks if using the Heavenly Recursion method, with an absolute max number of attacks of 5, standard + 4 when you have 4 Chakra



Right, not even going to look over the subclasses. The issue is, Chakra Dice come back really damn fast. As in, you'll basically never be out of them. This class needs SERIOUS rebalancing.
fair enough...

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 11:13 AM
I would recommend giving the core class unarmored defense; every martial class either has proficiency with some sort of armor or gets some form of unarmored defense. If the class had unarmored defense, you'd have a more solid baseline from which you could balance abilities.
It has a Chakra Art that effectively is the Unarmored Defense, that is why I haven t given it Unarmored Defense

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 11:15 AM
Kaleidoscopic Life Extension is really and really good first level immortality unless you die in battle is sorry to say but munchkin level good just one level into this class and you are basicly immortal from highlander and class table would be nice
Immortal yes, invulnerable no, I see no problem with this but my image of the class also is broader plus what the frag does a danger seeking person need immortallity for, deaths around the corner.
I actually thought this would be considerd more of a ribbon ability... hmm strange

khadgar567
2016-08-18, 11:28 AM
Immortal yes, invulnerable no, I see no problem with this but my image of the class also is broader plus what the frag does a danger seeking person need immortallity for, deaths around the corner.
I actually thought this would be considerd more of a ribbon ability... hmm strange
you can only die via either dm rule or major gang up in dark alley

Rerem115
2016-08-18, 11:31 AM
The problem is, you can't really compare it; you can add your Dex mod (your primary stat) twice to your AC, making you very SAD, and gain resistance to the attack. This is flat out better than nearly any class' defensive options; by level 8 every Disciple will have at least 20 AC whenever they are attacked. This also makes the Swordman archetype stupidly strong, since they get armor, a stacking AC buff, and resistance. While the base class always has an AC of 20 by level 8, the Swordsman will always have an AC of 23. At level 8. Despite your d8 hit dice, you'll be tanking harder than the Barbarian, all while healing faster and dishing out up to 6 attacks a round (4 from level 5 feature, 1 as a bonus action, 1 as a reaction), with a significant number of them gaining a +5 to hit bonus.

This is why you need unarmored defense. With unarmored defense, you have a solid baseline, and can re-tune these absolutely broken defensive Chakra abilities without worrying about your class suffering as a whole.

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 11:31 AM
...class table would be nice
I could not for the life of me get that **** to work...:smallfrown:

khadgar567
2016-08-18, 11:34 AM
I could not for the life of me get that **** to work...:smallfrown:
did you need help putting this thing into class table here or you ask for something else

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 11:35 AM
**** this i give up, back to the drawing board...

JNAProductions
2016-08-18, 11:37 AM
**** this i give up, back to the drawing board...

That's probably for the best. This class, while cool, was kinda a mess.

Good luck remaking this class!

Lalliman
2016-08-18, 11:42 AM
I am not sure what is so dense about this, in the published books font size 8, single line space seems to be the norm. The format of my text could use some spaces between each entry in the multiabilities(such as Divine Arts)
I didn't mean the density of the text (I could read it fine even before you enlarged the font), but that it's a complex class with a lot to take in.


The idea about the current functionallity of the Chakra was that every ability(literally every ability) requires a Chakra Die to activate meaning that the long term effects such as the Sensories and Walk/parkour can not be used while using combat specific abilities,
The idea is fine, the problem is that due to the exploitable mechanics, you become exponentially stronger if you don't use those utility mechanics.


it could be reduce to spending a HD and gain +2 HP instead, and yes it is intentional to be able to use HD until all is used
It might work if the efficiency is reduced, as you say, but it still seems risky. When played in a game where short rests are rare (which do exist), this becomes the master art.


I would consider Int before Dex for Chakra purpose, in my mind the Chakra is not really tied to the physical body
I think you interpreted my comment opposite from what I actually said. I'm advocating using wis instead of dex, not the other way around.


hmm yes, this seemed a bit dull, the idea for the Mystic was that it is the only one that can materialize the Chakra outside the body, creating a Weapon seemed to fit, will look into it.
There are options here. Perhaps this functions similar to the Flame Blade spell, but with force damage. Thus, not only do you get the intended flavour, but the mystic also becomes more Wis-based compared to the other two archetypes, which are mainly Dex.

Edit: Good luck at the drawing board. I'm interested in seeing what you come up with.

Rerem115
2016-08-18, 11:47 AM
Flowing Strikes is still stronger than any other form of Extra Attack. At 5th level, you can make 3 attacks with a (Finesse, mind you) Longsword. The only other class that could do this is the Barbarian, and they gain a point of exhaustion after they do so. To make matters worse, this scales up to 6 attacks on your turn, and one attack as a reaction.

Your Extra Attack is stronger than any other form of extra attack, and it scales on levels where you get other class features; with classes that get standard Extra Attack, they don't get anything else on levels where they get another attack.

I don't know how to balance this feature, so my gut reaction is to get rid of it and replace it with run-of-the mill Extra Attack. You can make an attack as a bonus action already, so you'll already have 3 attacks at level 5. (Extra attack as a bonus action is probably broken in and of itself, but Flowing Strikes has been drawing all the attention away from this fact)

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 12:47 PM
I actually have a question. The Shadow Network feature(lvl 17 of Infiltrator), it is an Inspiration point spender, what is your thoughts about the idea of this kind of ability.
The idea is to circumvent roll play(partly) to gain some hard-to-define benefit without resorting to lengthy roleplay while keeping the benefits in flavor of the users class(in this case Subclass)?

Rerem115
2016-08-18, 03:59 PM
Here's my attempt to clean up this class and balance it out.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1cagsmc

I couldn't quite figure out a way to get the Mystic to work with the changes to Chakra Dice and Divine Arts. With Chakra Dice that only return on a short rest, the Mystic felt really lackluster, and because some of the Divine Arts are so powerful with multiclassing, it didn't seem fair to be able to give them to other classes. As a result, I had to leave out the Mystic, but everything else should work pretty close to how you intended it.

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 04:10 PM
Here's my attempt to clean up this class and balance it out.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1cagsmc

I couldn't quite figure out a way to get the Mystic to work with the changes to Chakra Dice and Divine Arts. With Chakra Dice that only return on a short rest, the Mystic felt really lackluster, and because some of the Divine Arts are so powerful with multiclassing, it didn't seem fair to be able to give them to other classes. As a result, I had to leave out the Mystic, but everything else should work pretty close to how you intended it.

There is simply no point in using Chakra that returns on short rest, the base idea is to have a flexible energy resource instead of consumed resource model, most classes have some form of consumed resource and it is annoying.
The Chakra was meant to be a Resource distribution with no loss.

JNAProductions
2016-08-18, 04:11 PM
There is simply no point in using Chakra that returns on short rest, the base idea is to have a flexible energy resource instead of consumed resource model, most classes have some form of consumed resource and it is annoying.
The Chakra was meant to be a Resource distribution with no loss.

Then you need to REALLY nerf the class.

Rerem115
2016-08-18, 04:13 PM
As JNAP meant, with a distribution, rather than expenditure based class, you wind up with abilities and features that are always on, which is an extremely powerful theory of design. Because you can always benefit from some features, you have to make most, if not all of your features, weaker as a result.

Munimasa
2016-08-18, 04:20 PM
Then you need to REALLY nerf the class.


As JNAP meant, with a distribution, rather than expenditure based class, you wind up with abilities and features that are always on, which is an extremely powerful theory of design. Because you can always benefit from some features, you have to make most, if not all of your features, weaker as a result.

Which is why I said I needed to go back to the drawing board and rework it.