3.5 pimp my Druid Trapsmith

[Warrnan]

Just for fun theory crafting, let's find the best way for a Druid to cover a Rogue's role in the party.

I'm a Warcraft player and a Druid can use stealth there too.

I suppose you can mostly cover this with stealthy wildshape forms and a rogue level + able learner.

Picking up the stealth skills, concentration, disable device, search and use magic device with a human of 12 int would seemingly cover all the important stuff.

Is there something better than rogue 1 Druid 19? I wish there was a Druid variant of shadowbane stalker that wasn't garbage. Oh well. (My dm generally doesn't use dragon mag.)

How do you survive before wildshape?

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks, -WD

[eggynack]

Well, for the trap end, I think you really want the kobold domain (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a), or, more specifically, the domain power. You get search and disable device, as well as the ability to work with difficult and magical traps. You can use planar touchstone from the planar handbook to pick that up. Then, for stealth stuff, you can use nightbringer initiate from faiths of eberron to get hide and move silently on your skill list. Alternatively, you can go halfling (or, more likely, strongheart halfling), and pick up some halfling substitution levels. I'm not a big fan of those levels, but they can do the job, if not as well. Drop UMD completely. You have spells, and they do what you need to do quite well, if not everything in the universe. And, finally, supplement all of that with spells and wild shape. There's a bunch of skill bonuses hanging around, piles of vision modes on monsters, and just generally a lot of the stuff you'd want here. And, of course, you'd be doing all of this without sacrificing druid levels. If you want some specifics on those spells and forms, and on what you should be doing outside of working with traps, my handbook should do the job.

[OldTrees1]

Trapsmith skills:
Disable Device, Listen, Knowledge(Architecture & Engineering), Knowledge(Dungeoneering), Search, Spot (some are more important than others, the knowledge skills are optional)

Scout skills:
Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot

Since you want to progress Wildshape you are probably stuck at only 4+Int skill points per level. Consider 14 Int?

[daremetoidareyo]

dmg 2 page 41, look up booby traps! you can gather materials with a survival check. Free unlimited CR 1/2 traps!

[Warrnan]

Well, for the trap end, I think you really want the kobold domain (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a), or, more specifically, the domain power. You get search and disable device, as well as the ability to work with difficult and magical traps. You can use planar touchstone from the planar handbook to pick that up. Then, for stealth stuff, you can use nightbringer initiate from faiths of eberron to get hide and move silently on your skill list. Alternatively, you can go halfling (or, more likely, strongheart halfling), and pick up some halfling substitution levels. I'm not a big fan of those levels, but they can do the job, if not as well. Drop UMD completely. You have spells, and they do what you need to do quite well, if not everything in the universe. And, finally, supplement all of that with spells and wild shape. There's a bunch of skill bonuses hanging around, piles of vision modes on monsters, and just generally a lot of the stuff you'd want here. And, of course, you'd be doing all of this without sacrificing druid levels. If you want some specifics on those spells and forms, and on what you should be doing outside of working with traps, my handbook should do the job.

First off, amazing handbook. I've read it many times. (It's been a while, though. Lol) Well done. Definitely going to reread. Druid is one of my favorite classes.

Dropping umd is good advice for sure. I just love using it on a skill monkey but this will save it for a more important skill such as knowledge nature or something.

I'll check out those options, Eggynack. Many thanks!

[Darrin]

Is there something better than rogue 1 Druid 19?


Ranger 1/Druid 19 might work. The Trap Expert ACF (Dungeonscape) lets you trade away Track for Trapfinding/Disable Device. Not as many skill points, but better BAB and HP at 1st level.

If your DM is flexible on ACFs combined with variant base classes, then a Simple Druid (Unearthed Arcana) trades away armor/shield proficiency and wildshape for some monk/ranger abilities, including Track. So swap Track for the Trap Expert ACF, and you could go Druid 20. No wildshape, though.

You could also use Planar Touchstone or not-so-planar Touchstone to pick up the Kobold domain via the Catalogues of Enlightenment.



How do you survive before wildshape?


Conjure ice beast and fleshraker companion with brocade vest/pillbox hat. An in-depth perusal of Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook) also helps quite a bit.

[Warrnan]

Since you want to progress Wildshape you are probably stuck at only 4+Int skill points per level. Consider 14 Int?

Very good point. I will try to get as much in as possible depending on point buy. Thanks.


Ranger 1/Druid 19 might work. The Trap Expert ACF (Dungeonscape) lets you trade away Track for Trapfinding/Disable Device. Not as many skill points, but better BAB and HP at 1st level.

If your DM is flexible on ACFs combined with variant base classes, then a Simple Druid (Unearthed Arcana) trades away armor/shield proficiency and wildshape for some monk/ranger abilities, including Track. So swap Track for the Trap Expert ACF, and you could go Druid 20. No wildshape, though.

You could also use Planar Touchstone or not-so-planar Touchstone to pick up the Kobold domain via the Catalogues of Enlightenment.



Conjure ice beast and fleshraker companion with brocade vest/pillbox hat. An in-depth perusal of Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook) also helps quite a bit.

thanks Darrin. So many good ideas. Yea. I suppose combat before level 5 will be to sick my animal companion on the enemy and make sure he doesn't die peppered with some BFc spells or summons. Thanks!

[nedz]

See handbook in my signature below - some ideas you could adapt.

[daremetoidareyo]

Maybe vermin wildshape and borrowing some of this build:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18985549&postcount=26

[eggynack]

Oh, I thought you were asking how you'd stealth at low levels without wild shape. If ya just want to survive, druids are quite good at surviving low levels. Buncha HP, better armor than a wizard (if worse than a cleric), a free meat shield that's roughly competitive with low tier melee folk, and spells that are highly competitive with those of high tier casting folk. Can't do much better, even with a lot of your resources allocated to weird trap stuff. It just means that you're near the best, rather than the absolute best, at first level(which is attained through greenbound summoning, typically). And, of course, if you can get a caster close to the top at first, you can keep that up through your whole career.

I guess you could challenge yourself by only making use of highly thematic options, even at early levels, and in so doing maybe lower your survival rate. But, even then, you can still pull together something right near the top. After all, you can just cast impeding stones over entangle, wall of smoke over whatever (though you should wait a couple levels on that one, due to the duration), blinding spittle over kelpstrand, make your companion a swindlespitter and then a sailsnake instead of a riding dog and then a fleshraker, and wind up with a cool urban/poison theme. Of course, aside from the swindlespitter (which is just okay), all of those things are really good things that you'd be making use of anyway. Just in addition to the other less thematic things, rather than instead of them. Not saying you should necessarily do all those things, but it just goes to show how deep you can go without getting pulled offtrack. And, of course, it's nice to have those thematically inclined spells in addition to the other ones, cause it can bolster the feel of the character without becoming the only things that character can do.

Oh, yeah, also summon elemental reserve feat. Takes awhile to pick that one up, so it's no substitute for the skills and such, but it may be worth picking up if you have the chance. A continuous stream of earth elementals happens to be quite useful for dealing with traps of various kinds. Play your cards right and you could wind up with a druid that's better at this stuff than a rogue, rather than a solid substitute.

[Warrnan]

See handbook in my signature below - some ideas you could adapt.
Awesome. Going to read this right now. Thanks!


Maybe vermin wildshape and borrowing some of this build:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18985549&postcount=26

Borrowing would be quite stealthy. Thanks!


Oh, I thought you were asking how you'd stealth at low levels without wild shape. If ya just want to survive, druids are quite good at surviving low levels. Buncha HP, better armor than a wizard (if worse than a cleric), a free meat shield that's roughly competitive with low tier melee folk, and spells that are highly competitive with those of high tier casting folk. Can't do much better, even with a lot of your resources allocated to weird trap stuff. It just means that you're near the best, rather than the absolute best, at first level(which is attained through greenbound summoning, typically). And, of course, if you can get a caster close to the top at first, you can keep that up through your whole career.

I guess you could challenge yourself by only making use of highly thematic options, even at early levels, and in so doing maybe lower your survival rate. But, even then, you can still pull together something right near the top. After all, you can just cast impeding stones over entangle, wall of smoke over whatever (though you should wait a couple levels on that one, due to the duration), blinding spittle over kelpstrand, make your companion a swindlespitter and then a sailsnake instead of a riding dog and then a fleshraker, and wind up with a cool urban/poison theme. Of course, aside from the swindlespitter (which is just okay), all of those things are really good things that you'd be making use of anyway. Just in addition to the other less thematic things, rather than instead of them. Not saying you should necessarily do all those things, but it just goes to show how deep you can go without getting pulled offtrack. And, of course, it's nice to have those thematically inclined spells in addition to the other ones, cause it can bolster the feel of the character without becoming the only things that character can do.

Oh, yeah, also summon elemental reserve feat. Takes awhile to pick that one up, so it's no substitute for the skills and such, but it may be worth picking up if you have the chance. A continuous stream of earth elementals happens to be quite useful for dealing with traps of various kinds. Play your cards right and you could wind up with a druid that's better at this stuff than a rogue, rather than a solid substitute.

You're right. Druids ARE quite strong. I'm sure there'll be no problem surviving low levels. Good idea with the elemental feat. Those earth ele's will go nicely with the burrowing mentioned earlier.