Incarnum and VoP

[Falcii]

Is there a particular reason people don't talk about the synergy between totemist and vow of poverty? At a quick glance it seems like an excellent way to circumvent a huge weakness in a really cool feat. Why carry equipment when you can be equipment? Is there something I'm missing that makes it horrible?

[JNAProductions]

Is there a particular reason people don't talk about the synergy between totem barbarian and vow of poverty? At a quick glance it seems like an excellent way to circumvent a huge weakness in a really cool feat. Why carry equipment when you can be equipment? Is there something I'm missing that makes it horrible?

Vow of Poverty sucking?

[Troacctid]

Unless you're a Soul Manifester, you don't have enough bind slots to fill all your magic item slots, so you still want magic items just as much as anyone else.

[Zanos]

Honestly even if you filled all your slots, there's still a truckload of unslotted items that are amazing.

I think that's the crux of it. WBL is so good that nearly anything that attempts to replace it fails.

[Extra Anchovies]

Incarnate and Totemist are two classes that kinda sorta maybe work with VoP, along with Druid.

It does, however, make for a very good feat to put on your animal companion :smallamused:

[geekintheground]

mentions of the feat are pretty rare around here, but whenever it does come up incarnum is always mentioned as one of the few things that isnt one garbo with the feat along w/ druids.
but overall its still better not to take it (char op wise)

[One Step Two]

Vow of Poverty is packed with Flavour, but little substance. It works best with classes that can already do amazing wtih out it, such as druids. MoI is also amazing for playing without items, and there's definite synergy there. Nothing wrong with combining them, and in most cases, unless the DM running the game has little-to-no magic items, would fit perfectly in most games without upsetting the balance.

[Big Fau]

While meldshaping does work nicely with VoP, its one of those things where the magic items are still better for you in the long run. If your DM is stingy with magic items but doesn't ban VoP, go ahead. Otherwise skip it.

However, if he house rules VoP's bonus feats to allow Incarnum feats (including Open Chakra) it becomes infinitely more potent. Free Essentia and Chakra Binds are nuts for a straight-classed meldshaper.

[eggynack]

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I struggle to recall a time when VoP was the topic of conversation and someone didn't mention incarnum. You'd pretty much have to be in a thread talking about some specific element of VoP, rather than the feat in general. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if someone said, "I agree, words of creation does have some meaningful utility when you're only using the magic boosting functions, at least when you're getting it close to free. But have you seen VoP on a totemist? Out of this world." It's a fundamental and natural element of the discourse surrounding the feat.

Beyond that, as was mentioned, yes, the feat does still suck, even when on a particularly well suited class, and yes, as always, druids do it better. To that latter point, druids maintain that advantage from not using items, add on some extra ability to operate without items, and get better feats than a totemist does. And the feat is still mediocre at best on a druid unless you aren't able, for whatever reason, to properly equip your druid. Notably, you might also be better off with, say, a psion than a totemist. You lose the advantage from not having items, but gain a whole hell of a lot of ability to work without them, and while the feats aren't exactly fitting, at some point you're simply trying to reduce your losses rather than acquire any meaningful gains. it's not like totemists do that great with the bonus feats, and it's a big deal for the comparison, as mentioned above. You're, what, boosting your fancy natural attacks with some statistical bonuses? Meanwhile, the druid is giving VoP to their animal companion, pure upside, and gaining insane blink dog style teleportation, alongside a bunch of other cool form stuff (unicorns and celestial animals, mostly), and the aforementioned words of creation actually is nice. This is where you're reaping some benefit from VoP, if any exists at all, and losing it on the totemist is problematic.