How do you award Hoards?

[Tanarii]

The DMG doesn't say it right out, but I looked closely at the numbers and it works out to approximately one Hoard per adventuring day. Which is important to me, because I *don't* have a single group all of the same level, I have multiple groups of varying levels, with different people (or characters) in different parties in different session. That means I need to translate x/hordes per tier from the DMG into x/hordes/character/adventuring day.

This got me curious: So how do you award hoards? Do you just wing it? Use a system, either the DMGs or your own?

(The tags need a DM discussion tag instead of DM help :smallbiggrin: )

As a side note, I've found the sudden jump at CR 4 to CR 5 Hordes is a bit of a problem, even if you instead make that level 4 to level 5, if you have mixed groups of level 4 & 5s. That's also a bit of a problem for group power of mixed 4s & 5s, since that's a 100% jump in effective daily staying power between those two levels, I'm working around that by starting to make some sessions 5+ and other up to 4, now that I have a big enough base of players and characters. I've found the breakpoint they designate for the first two Tiers to be surprisingly accurate when running a No Multiclassing No Feats game.

[TurboGhast]

I generally wing it, and just place hoards at the end of dungeons if it makes sense for treasure to be there. I honestly didn't remember that the DMG recommended a number of hoards until seeing this thread.

[mephnick]

I make my own hoards based off the rewritten prices of magic items posted by Kryx and someone else (sorry guy). The DMG tables are really poorly built.

So basically I roll on my tables before the session and stock my session hoard table with some options the players can then roll for. That way players still get a fun treasure roll, but I can limit what items will show up. Truly random treasure tables can be fun, but I really don't need a level 1 character finding the OP Cloak of Displacement (possible with DMG tables).

[AttilatheYeon]

I generally let them sack Rome, take whatever treasure they can carry... Wait... We may be talking about different things 😉

[Sigreid]

I give treasure when, and in a quantity that suits what I'm running. If there's magic going to be in the treasure, I typically like to pass it out to mobs and use it against the party if appropriate. In general, it boils down to dispensing levels of treasure that I am prepared to deal with most of the time.

I say most of the time because if they go in an unexpected direction and slay that dragon over there, they deserve a dragon's hoard and I figure out how I'm going to deal with their wealth from that point on.

[Tanarii]

I make my own hoards based off the rewritten prices of magic items posted by Kryx and someone else (sorry guy). The DMG tables are really poorly built.Why do you think they are poorly built?

So far I haven't had many issues with the DMG tables, nor so prices of magic times. They are basically impossible to sell without using downtime, which means the character or a henchman sitting out a lot of adventures in my campaign, since time goes on regardless of character downtime. This means most likely buyers are other PCs in. Or they are awarded to henchmen (who often get promoted to full PC in case of PC permadeath) in a trickle-down process. Something along these lines seems to be the expected standard for 5e, minus the henchman part obviously. Use it, or with difficulty maybe possibly find a buyer.


So basically I roll on my tables before the session and stock my session hoard table with some options the players can then roll for. That way players still get a fun treasure roll, but I can limit what items will show up. Truly random treasure tables can be fun, but I really don't need a level 1 character finding the OP Cloak of Displacement (possible with DMG tables).I usually use random rolls in advance too, since I'm creating adventure areas in advance, at least ones that will contain a horde. So far I haven't had any outliers I can't handle. But as I said I have mixed level groups. First of all, a higher level person is more likely to get the more powerful item, since most parties choose to distribute based on something approximating to the idea that they contributed more by being higher level. But also because nothing game breaking for a lower level character operating in a mixed level group has come up yet. Maybe I'm just lucky?

[MaxWilson]

I generally just wing it, where "wing it" occasionally includes "roll up a hoard from the DMG" or "have the players roll up their own hoard with lots of dice when the time comes" or "roll up three hoards, write them on note cards, and have the players pick one out of my hand."

[Tanarii]

That's some pretty good winging it variety MaxWilson. :smallbiggrin:

[Arkhios]

How does one deal with horde of coins? With alliance of numismatics.
How does one deal with hoard of coins? With greedy adventurers. :smalltongue:

Excuse my crude sense of humor, just couldn't resist when I once again saw these distinctly different words get mixed with each other :smalltongue:

[Tanarii]

Yeah, I was so damn careful when writing out the title, because believe it or not I'm well aware of the difference and wanted to be sure to get it right.

But then autocorrect changed some of them to the wrong one in the post and I missed it. :smallamused:

[Arkhios]

But then autocorrect changed some of them to the wrong one in the post and I missed it. :smallamused:

Damn them robots, trying to make us humans look stupid! Part of their plan to take over the world?

On the topic, though. I kinda tend to wing the decision of which table to use when rolling the treasure. Depending on the circumstances.

[MrStabby]

So I put gold in storage areas - amount varies by campaign, by level and how financially focused the owner of the horde is. So a dragon will have a bigger horde than an equivalent CR rating enemy. Bandits will have more gold than an owlbear and so on.

Outside of gold there are magic items. I never roll for these but (almost) always have them as equipped items on NPCs. For these I give whatever seems appropriate for them to have built/acquired.

[mephnick]

Why do you think they are poorly built?

I just find them poorly balanced, mostly due to how they valued items on a rarity scale instead of a power scale. Something like the cloak of displacement is one of the most powerful items in the system and you can get it at level 1 with a decent roll, but much less powerful items are gated at hoard level 11+. I find the chance to unbalance a single character in the party too high with a treasure roll at low levels, but I'm sure that would be considered a feature in some games. I just think it could have used a bit more attention and editing.

I won't get into the insane pricing since it's not really supposed to work like a magic mart like you say.

[Baptor]

I generally award a horde at the end of a dungeon, upon the slaying of any true Dragon, or at the end of a long quest. I also use the random tables, because I have found as DM the best way to do magic items in 5e is randomly, since they are not required.

[RickAllison]

I will never just roll up a hoard with a random dungeon. For me, hoards are the kind of things where I use them as a base point for dungeons I actually think about, then intersperse the goodies as they most fit with the dungeon (giving the magic items to the appropriate enemies as well :smallwink:). Otherwise, I just come up with appropriate-sounding items depending on the situation. Art pieces are good, posing a challenge of how to transport them.

[Baptor]

I will never just roll up a hoard with a random dungeon. For me, hoards are the kind of things where I use them as a base point for dungeons I actually think about, then intersperse the goodies as they most fit with the dungeon (giving the magic items to the appropriate enemies as well :smallwink:). Otherwise, I just come up with appropriate-sounding items depending on the situation. Art pieces are good, posing a challenge of how to transport them.

Oh agreed, and if there's an evil wizard in that dungeon and the hoard has a wand of fireballs, you can bet that wizard will have a boomstick.

[RickAllison]

Oh agreed, and if there's an evil wizard in that dungeon and the hoard has a wand of fireballs, you can bet that wizard will have a boomstick.

And now you've given me a great idea for a character...

[Baptor]

And now you've given me a great idea for a character...

My pleasure. :smallwink:

[Tanarii]

I just find them poorly balanced, mostly due to how they valued items on a rarity scale instead of a power scale. Something like the cloak of displacement is one of the most powerful items in the system and you can get it at level 1 with a decent roll, but much less powerful items are gated at hoard level 11+. I find the chance to unbalance a single character in the party too high with a treasure roll at low levels, but I'm sure that would be considered a feature in some games. I just think it could have used a bit more attention and editing.That makes sense. I agree that far too much power randomly being attained by low level characters can potentially be a problem.

But that means the problem is Table G (for low level Hoards). Easy enough to roll on table F instead if you think a 14% chance of getting at least one item from Table G in the first 5 hoards is too much (calculate as 1-(.97)^5). And similarly ignore the highest rolls from the other corresponding tables.

[djreynolds]

What do you want out of it?

Is this a homebrew adventure?

Usually players walk away disappointed, or it completely changes their characters direction.

Is this treasure important to the next adventure?

Do they need silver weapons, or the money to silver them? For example a PAM wants a silvered halberd, might be better to give him the money to do so, or not if you are annoyed with him.

Are they just going to sell it anyhow, these magical items?

If this is a homebrewed adventure, then you can pick out items that may help them later on?

If this is CoS, we got stuff from the Vistani that is useless to us and we can't sell it to get anything better.

I just got for my cleric a tome of understanding, huge. But it was an item written by the designers into the adventure to find. And since we are a team we look to say who would profit from using this for the group the most.

Are your PCs cool and team people, individuals, etc?

[Scaleybob]

I roll up a bunch of Treasure Hoards all at once, depending on level, and then try to work out where the best place to put them will be. After a Big Bad fight perhaps, or when the PCs have successfully fought their way through a bunch of encounters.

I'll 'borrow' from future hoards for things like bribes or payment for adventure, lowering the amount they get later on.

I've also stopped bothering with awarding copper or silver in hoards, I just say assorted coinage worth xxx gps. Save time and effort for everyone.

If I'm doing individual treasures, I tend to simply roll once and them multiply that by the number of similar individuals. I did do the "this guys got 12cp, and this guys got 20 sp, and this guys got 15 sp and this guys got 8 gp and this guys got 7 ep and this guys got 5 pp and this guys got 30 sp ad infinitum" once, but although treasure recording Player (who loves this type of stuff) enjoyed it, everybody else soon reached a point where they were mimicking shooting themselves.

I enjoy rolling up hoards, but there are times with the items where I'll reroll something if it's completely pants, or no-one can use it, or it's something that seems too powerful for the group at that level. If it's the last option, I do try to replace it with something that is still very good.

[Tanarii]

What do you want out of it?To ensure that players get roughly the expected amount of treasure when leveling, despite not adventuring in one party, and having parties of mixed levels.


Is this a homebrew adventure?Combat-as-War Campaign semi-sandbox a mix of level appropriate zones (aka 'Dungeons'), zones where encounters can span a wide variety of levels (aka 'Wilderness'), and mostly safe zones (usually Towns). I'm planning to add in urban adventuring areas as the campaign matures.


Is this treasure important to the next adventure?Up to the individual PCs. But funding strongholds is a PC goal for several already. That'll help the, achieve goals they want to achieve in campaign, as well as give them a safe base of operations in not very safe areas.


Are they just going to sell it anyhow, these magical items? Thats difficult because it takes downtime, except to other PCs, who can set whatever prices they like. More likely is gifting it to a henchman. Downtime removes either a character or a henchman from adventuring for the duration, and the campaign doesn't stop and wait for one PCs/Henchman's downtime. It can't. Different parties are in session in several places in the campaign at once, so time continues to move forward with or without specific characters. Plus for a henchman to do it you have to trust him with a hell of a lot of your loot off by himself.


If this is a homebrewed adventure, then you can pick out items that may help them later on?Ive done non-random McGuffin Magic item placement from time to time because I don't want the campaign to just be 'kill monsters and take their loot'. But I also do plenty of random.


Are your PCs cool and team people, individuals, etc?I tell players that they should try to stay in character, but don't bring complete ******* characters to the table. And also to remember while they're out on adventure, they're effectively a special operations squad on a mission. They should value teamwork and accomplishing the stated goal to a fairly high degree. Especially since one of the goals is always 'somehow stay alive.'

Then they can do what they want and get themselves killed if they like. :smallamused:

[Tanarii]

I've also stopped bothering with awarding copper or silver in hoards, I just say assorted coinage worth xxx gps. Save time and effort for everyone.Copper and Silver is there so players have to spend resources. Either they take time in a dangerous spot to sort it into valuable vs almost worthless. Or they have to deal with the not inconsiderable weight while attempting to return to safely.

But yeah, you can totally hand wave it if you're not using the Encumberance variant rule, are willing to ignore the standard carrying / lifting rule, and especially if gold isn't particularly important in your campaign for whatever reason anyway.

[NNescio]

How does one deal with horde of coins? With alliance of numismatics.
How does one deal with hoard of coins? With greedy adventurers. :smalltongue:

Excuse my crude sense of humor, just couldn't resist when I once again saw these distinctly different words get mixed with each other :smalltongue:

Could be a horde of Lock Lurkers hiding in a hoard.

[RickAllison]

Copper and Silver is there so players have to spend resources. Either they take time in a dangerous spot to sort it into valuable vs almost worthless. Or they have to deal with the not inconsiderable weight while attempting to return to safely.

But yeah, you can totally hand wave it if you're not using the Encumberance variant rule, are willing to ignore the standard carrying / lifting rule, and especially if gold isn't particularly important in your campaign for whatever reason anyway.

"How do you carry this massive hoard of copper and silver coins without so much as a cart?"

"I Fabricate the copper into wagons to carry the silver."

Which would still be a ridiculous amount of weight :smallbiggrin:

[Tanarii]

"How do you carry this massive hoard of copper and silver coins without so much as a cart?"

"I Fabricate the copper into wagons to carry the silver."

Which would still be a ridiculous amount of weight :smallbiggrin:
Clearly the best solution is to make that last blow against the dragon a non-lethal blow, then fabricate some steel chains to bind him to the copper carts, and make him haul his treasure back to your fortress. :smallwink:

[Plaguescarred]

My PCs usually find treasure hoards in the lair of a single hoarding creature (or many in the case of a tribe), or as important reward. They may very rarely stumble upon one in a secret treasure room of some sort and it would be usually guarded by creatures or traps.

I never use a frequency such as 1/adventuring day for hoarding treasure. They find a hoard treasure when the campaign dictate it, not every 8 encounters necessarily. So they can go for weeks and dozens of encounters before finding one sometimes and its fine by me.

[Sigreid]

Clearly the best solution is to make that last blow against the dragon a non-lethal blow, then fabricate some steel chains to bind him to the copper carts, and make him haul his treasure back to your fortress. :smallwink:

1e the sub-dual rules for dragons allowed pretty much exactly that. You could even make him serve as a mount and tell you what the best pieces of his hoard were.

[Scaleybob]

Copper and Silver is there so players have to spend resources. Either they take time in a dangerous spot to sort it into valuable vs almost worthless. Or they have to deal with the not inconsiderable weight while attempting to return to safely.

But yeah, you can totally hand wave it if you're not using the Encumberance variant rule, are willing to ignore the standard carrying / lifting rule, and especially if gold isn't particularly important in your campaign for whatever reason anyway.

Dealing with a huge amount of nearly worthless coins might be "fun" maybe once - other than that I think it tends to reek of screw-job. "Look guys, here's the treasure you've fought and bled and worked for - and guess what - it's all a big pain in the jacksie to deal with" Maybe something a GM would do in the early days, but I'd like to think we've moved on from that sort of behavior. Given how little value the small denomination coins have in a normally rolled up hoard, simply hand waving it is the easiest solution.

[RickAllison]

Dealing with a huge amount of nearly worthless coins might be "fun" maybe once - other than that I think it tends to reek of screw-job. "Look guys, here's the treasure you've fought and bled and worked for - and guess what - it's all a big pain in the jacksie to deal with" Maybe something a GM would do in the early days, but I'd like to think we've moved on from that sort of behavior. Given how little value the small denomination coins have in a normally rolled up hoard, simply hand waving it is the easiest solution.

I've always thought it was important to give a variety of treasures. Gold, electrum, and platinum for liquid currency (things they can immediately carry and use), art and jewels for compact but harder to convert money, and copper, silver, and trade goods for caches that the PCs can stow secretly and retrieve later.

Especially for PCs that could make some very powerful people angry, having discrete stashes of small currency hidden throughout the countryside is a great way to carry on until a more permanent solution can be found. It is also handy to be able to have a support network for any refugees you might come across, a way that they can get established without becoming a target for bandits.

[Baptor]

Dealing with a huge amount of nearly worthless coins might be "fun" maybe once - other than that I think it tends to reek of screw-job. "Look guys, here's the treasure you've fought and bled and worked for - and guess what - it's all a big pain in the jacksie to deal with" Maybe something a GM would do in the early days, but I'd like to think we've moved on from that sort of behavior. Given how little value the small denomination coins have in a normally rolled up hoard, simply hand waving it is the easiest solution.

When I first DM'd, I used all the denominations of coins and had a hard limit on how many coins each player could carry (I think it was 1000 coins, which was generous tbh). But players could spend the money to buy jewelry (like the "art" in the DMG) so a player could have a platinum ring with a diamond cluster that was worth 10,000gp to "carry" the gold. I also allowed them to deposit their money with lenders who gave them promissory notes (i.e. paper money) as another way to lighten the burden.

After a few years, though, I realized this was just unnecessary book keeping. Players always found a way to get all the coins and art and junk out of the dungeon and have it stored or converted. It might take an hour of gaming time, but by gosh they did it.

So in order to have more time doing things we all thought were fun, we cut that out. Everything is in gold pieces now, and it just "assumed" that most of that value isn't actual coins but things like gems, jewelry, and notes.

Of course you and yours might actually find D&D Banking, The Game (tm) actually fun, so YMMV.

[Tanarii]

Dealing with a huge amount of nearly worthless coins might be "fun" maybe once - other than that I think it tends to reek of screw-job. "Look guys, here's the treasure you've fought and bled and worked for - and guess what - it's all a big pain in the jacksie to deal with" Maybe something a GM would do in the early days, but I'd like to think we've moved on from that sort of behavior. Given how little value the small denomination coins have in a normally rolled up hoard, simply hand waving it is the easiest solution.
It's still fun for players who enjoy a certain kind of resource management. The old days did lots of really good things that have unfortunately fallen by the wayside and commonly ignored in more modern gaming, even though the rules are still there to include them. My campaign intentionally attempts to revive some of the good ones. And encumberance variant rule, and dealing with how to get your loot out of the dungeon/wilderness and back to a safe area is one of them.

[RickAllison]

It's still fun for players who enjoy a certain kind of resource management. The old days did lots of really good things that have unfortunately fallen by the wayside and commonly ignored in more modern gaming, even though the rules are still there to include them. My campaign intentionally attempts to revive some of the good ones. And encumberance variant rule, and dealing with how to get your loot out of the dungeon/wilderness and back to a safe area is one of them.

And some of the fun comes from the challenge of getting it back. Recently, my DM awarded a hoard with quite the amount of small change. It would have been worth such a great amount, but we ended up cutting much of it to speed our departure when a pair of dragons showed up.

Of course my PC didn't care :smallbiggrin: While everyone else loaded up on gold coins, he was stashing art pieces. Once he got it rounded up, he had twice as much money on his own as the rest of the group combined (including the group funds!).