Need help fighting a god.

[sammyp03]

So the climax of our campaign is coming up this weekend and to make a long story short, one of our players got possessed by a god and now in order to stop her from all realities everywhere and recreating them in her own image we must defeat her.

She has divine rank 6 and is a 19th level optimized wizard/archmage/fate spinner.

Our party consists of a 16th level favored soul with the deathless, archon, and outsider templates. A horizon Walker Ranger 19th level and a 19th level paladin.

Any suggestions or strategy advice?

[MisterKaws]

How optimized are we talking about here? A full-on Batman Wizard is nearly untouchable without another equally optimized T1 character, so that matters a lot.

[sammyp03]

How optimized are we talking about here? A full-on Batman Wizard is nearly untouchable without another equally optimized T1 character, so that matters a lot.

About as Optimized as it gets. She has a few 9th level spells as spell like powers like shape change.
Also her Divine Ranks dont quite giver her everything that is in the manual of Planes but she has almost everything

[Inevitability]

If we're talking the same 'optimized' here, then you're toast. The favored soul might've beaten her in a contest of pure spellcasting strength, but the lack of versatility and 9th-level spells kill that plan. The ranger and paladin should be near-useless: at best they'll fight a horde of demons for two rounds before dying horribly.

[MisterKaws]

About as Optimized as it gets. She has a few 9th level spells as spell like powers like shape change.
Also her Divine Ranks dont quite giver her everything that is in the manual of Planes but she has almost everything

Gate in Pun-Pun and hope for the best, seriously.

Even that might cease to work if we're talking about a god of magic.

[sammyp03]

Gate in Pun-Pun and hope for the best, seriously.

Even that might cease to work if we're talking about a god of magic.

The only reason the Favored soul isnt also 19th level is becasue he missed sessions so he was given a few templates to try and even up the power but its still not really Close. THe paladin can do a ridiculous amount of damage but im not sure she can stay alive long enought for it to matter

Yeah Im thinking we are toast which i think is silly that our DM would Give us an unwinable fight.

[sammyp03]

If we're talking the same 'optimized' here, then you're toast. The favored soul might've beaten her in a contest of pure spellcasting strength, but the lack of versatility and 9th-level spells kill that plan. The ranger and paladin should be near-useless: at best they'll fight a horde of demons for two rounds before dying horribly.

Super Optimized. Im talking 30 intelligence BEFORE the divine ranks. Immune to death effects and Mind alter effects. Time Stop and Shapechange as Spell like powers 2/day.

[Calthropstu]

If we're talking the same 'optimized' here, then you're toast. The favored soul might've beaten her in a contest of pure spellcasting strength, but the lack of versatility and 9th-level spells kill that plan. The ranger and paladin should be near-useless: at best they'll fight a horde of demons for two rounds before dying horribly.

Hate to say it, but I have to agree.

A 16th level party going against a 19th level caster isn't insurmountable itself, but throw divine ranks in there and your dm is pretty much saying "Eat the bull****. Taste the bull****. Love the bull****."

Without divine aid on your side, your chances are negligible. Still, there are things your favored soul and paladin can do.

Your best bet here is to find an artifact capable of breaking her control. If there existed something that beat this goddess before, use it. Have the divine soul use augury and divination to find if something like that exists. Falling short of that, look for any artifact that can kill a god such as the annihilus (psionic gods only but there are others for magic I am sure)

Going in with just your class abilities is suicide.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, Fiat is your only answer here. The GM has a specific solution in mind, you need to find out what it is.

[Calthropstu]

Of course, you could always try pun-pun...

[sammyp03]

Hate to say it, but I have to agree.

A 16th level party going against a 19th level caster isn't insurmountable itself, but throw divine ranks in there and your dm is pretty much saying "Eat the bull****. Taste the bull****. Love the bull****."

Without divine aid on your side, your chances are negligible. Still, there are things your favored soul and paladin can do.

Your best bet here is to find an artifact capable of breaking her control. If there existed something that beat this goddess before, use it. Have the divine soul use augury and divination to find if something like that exists. Falling short of that, look for any artifact that can kill a god such as the annihilus (psionic gods only but there are others for magic I am sure)

Going in with just your class abilities is suicide.

We use Homebrew magic items and have no in game time to try and search for something that can break the Control. If we leave where we are at we will be caught up in RUIN which will Instantly destroy us. We have to beat her in order to save reality.

[Inevitability]

We use Homebrew magic items and have no in game time to try and search for something that can break the Control. If we leave where we are at we will be caught up in RUIN which will Instantly destroy us. We have to beat her in order to save reality.

Throw everything you have at her. There's a few possible options:

1. You die, and there was nothing you could do about it. The campaign ends. You can play something without superpowered BBEGs. The DM may chide you for not doing the 'super obvious thing' but ignore him: you're free!

2. The DM fudges the dice to make you win (which is hard enough in itself in this fight). Enjoy your victory, then go play something else.

3. The DM points you towards a solution that in his mind is completely logical, and in your minds a stretch at best. Use it, win, and the campaign, go play something else.

4. A superpowered NPC steps in to deal with the evil god. Skip the cutscene, go play something else.

I can go on like this, but I hope you get the idea.

[Calthropstu]

Throw everything you have at her. There's a few possible options:

1. You die, and there was nothing you could do about it. The campaign ends. You can play something without superpowered BBEGs. The DM may chide you for not doing the 'super obvious thing' but ignore him: you're free!

2. The DM fudges the dice to make you win (which is hard enough in itself in this fight). Enjoy your victory, then go play something else.

3. The DM points you towards a solution that in his mind is completely logical, and in your minds a stretch at best. Use it, win, and the campaign, go play something else.

4. A superpowered NPC steps in to deal with the evil god. Skip the cutscene, go play something else.

I can go on like this, but I hope you get the idea.

Eat the bull****, taste the bull****, love the bull****.

I wouldn't go into this fight anything short of epic. 16th? MAYBE if it was pathfinder and we were using mythic rules. But then, this gm sounds like he would give the bbeg mythic augmented timestop for fun.

(for those who don't play pathfinder and have never looked at mythic, this spell by itself is arguably just shy of pun-pun. 1 hour per level time stop.)

[MisterKaws]

Well, you could also try and make a deal with Pandorym. He's LE, so he won't go out of the deal, and as long as you don't leave any dubious rules in the agreement, he's going to follow it unconditionally.

[Inevitability]

Well, you could also try and make a deal with Pandorym. He's LE, so he won't go out of the deal, and as long as you don't leave any dubious rules in the agreement, he's going to follow it unconditionally.

I somehow doubt trying to release, then outsmart the ancient being with mental ability scores in the 20-30 range will be doable, let alone easy.

[MisterKaws]

I somehow doubt trying to release, then outsmart the ancient being with mental ability scores in the 20-30 range will be doable, let alone easy.

You don't really need to outsmart him, just make a really straightforward deal.

Something like this: "We release you, you eat the thing, then come back into the prison. Deal?" Pandorym would probably like eating a single god enough to accept that, so the only problem would be temporarily opening the seal without shattering it completely.

Still easier than trying to beat an optimized Wizard deity.

[Zanos]

Super Optimized. Im talking 30 intelligence BEFORE the divine ranks. Immune to death effects and Mind alter effects. Time Stop and Shapechange as Spell like powers 2/day.
That doesn't seem super optimized to me. A high level wizard should be rocking a 30+ int score pre-epic and without divine ranks. You can get an 18 from PB(or a good roll), +2 from a race, +5 from levelups, +5 from wishes, and +6 from a magic item. That's 36 before any real shenanigans. When the Playground talks about super optimized, we're talking about wizards that are chain gating solars for unlimited armies of 20th level mind slaves.

Also the strength of Divine Ranks varies wildly. If the deity has the Alter Reality SDA and it's used thoroughly, yeah you're toast. If on the other hand the deity has terrible SDAs like Divine Celerity, you're probably fine.

[Âmesang]

…so I take it protection from evil is out? :smalltongue:

Heck, if I remember correctly, a deity's base ability scores are typically 35/28/25/24/24/24, not only gaining the standard point per four HD but also one per divine rank (and, really, what's to stop a deity from gifting themselves with a +5 inherit to each score?). So, assuming it works like possessions detailed in Deities and Demigods you might be dealing with an Intelligence well beyond 35.

Honestly it's a shame the deity isn't 20th level 'cause then the Divine Spellcasting ability could grant it spell slots beyond 9th (though the prerequisite may be restricted to a flat twenty levels in a single class and not simply twenty spellcaster levels). Divine Dodge is fun, too. Arcane Mastery, Spontaneous Wizard spells… technically couldn't a deity use Alter Size to become as small as a grain of sand and fly up someone's nose and attack from inside? :smallconfused:

[sammyp03]

I guess ill Have to figure out a way to beat her without fighting her

[Toilet Cobra]

Don't worry, your DM has something in mind

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Too bad your party doesn't have a member who is from the Concordant Domain of the Outlands. If you had access to the planar bubble spell and a good grapple modifier, this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20479986&postcount=295) would wreck the god's ****. (Yes, I did actually type out '****'.)

[Calthropstu]

I guess ill Have to figure out a way to beat her without fighting her

Convert to her worship and ask for a place by her side.

[LTwerewolf]

If a deity is played correctly, you will not win. Any tool you have, it does too. Any tool you don't have, it probably has. It's also more than likely been alive for millennia and has time to set up every possible contingency. You're at the mercy of your dm.

[Calthropstu]

If a deity is played correctly, you will not win. Any tool you have, it does too. Any tool you don't have, it probably has. It's also more than likely been alive for millennia and has time to set up every possible contingency. You're at the mercy of your dm.

Actually, he isn't.

"I refuse."

Refusing to fight a battle they can't possibly win is a valid strategy. Nothing upsets a gm more than to have the "big bad boss fight" refused due to the fact the PCs are literally no match for what they are facing.

Of course, there is a possibility that GM is actually setting it up for something to happen. "And you are saved at the last moment by another diety who pulls you into another plane. The ritual has been temporarily halted by the other dieties, but they need you to retrieve an artifact while they hold the ritual at bay. You have been given a short amount of time to get the artifact that is needed..."

But in all honesty, if it doesn't look like that's the case, I would say... "Ok, we die the universe ends, next game" and completely ignore the boss fight altogether.

[LTwerewolf]

Refusing is simply admitting defeat, since a deity can come after them if they chose. It doesn't solve anything except get it over more quickly. In those cases I suggest switching dms to one that doesn't put you in no win situations.

[tyckspoon]

I'm going to assume the actual fight is a lost cause (if only to save you the time of typing out everybody's exact builds, the Soul's spells known, etc.) Traditionally, the way to fight a god is to get the aid of one or more other gods, to give you the necessary blessings to fight the rogue god or suppress their deific power so you can fight on a mortal level. Question is (assuming this isn't already on your DM's mind), how do you make a good argument for getting that help? Well, presumably the other gods are not in favor of what's happening; they don't want to surrender their domains and influence to this would-be new overgod. So something is probably blocking their influence and/or their ability to perceive what's going on.

Fortunately they have a man on the inside - the Favored Soul, whose templates make him unusually close to his god already. Have him cast whatever divination he knows to get his god's attention (Augury/Divination/Commune would be ideal, especially Commune) and ask for aid. You'll probably still receive whatever solution/non solution the DM had in mind, but at least your party will get to initiate it instead of struggling through a futile fight until the DM starts the cutscene.

[MisterKaws]

I'm going to assume the actual fight is a lost cause (if only to save you the time of typing out everybody's exact builds, the Soul's spells known, etc.) Traditionally, the way to fight a god is to get the aid of one or more other gods, to give you the necessary blessings to fight the rogue god or suppress their deific power so you can fight on a mortal level. Question is (assuming this isn't already on your DM's mind), how do you make a good argument for getting that help? Well, presumably the other gods are not in favor of what's happening; they don't want to surrender their domains and influence to this would-be new overgod. So something is probably blocking their influence and/or their ability to perceive what's going on.

Fortunately they have a man on the inside - the Favored Soul, whose templates make him unusually close to his god already. Have him cast whatever divination he knows to get his god's attention (Augury/Divination/Commune would be ideal, especially Commune) and ask for aid. You'll probably still receive whatever solution/non solution the DM had in mind, but at least your party will get to initiate it instead of struggling through a futile fight until the DM starts the cutscene.

That's a pretty good idea. "Can you help me stop the crazy Wizard-lady?" is a yes/no question too, so that would probably fit in Commune, and it would automatically be intercepted by the greatest god with an interest in stopping her, so you either get a Greater Deity of Good and Justice, or just the supreme god of your campaign.