Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)

[R.Shackleford]

In all honesty this doesn't seem like something a Druid would do, so Ritual Casting Feat (or Warlock) would be the way to go.

"Ritual Casting

Certain spells have a special tag: ritual. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or the spell can be cast as a ritual. The ritual version of a spell takes 10 minutes longer to cast than normal. It also doesn’t expend a spell slot, which means the ritual version of a spell can’t be cast at a higher level.

To cast a spell as a ritual, a spellcaster must have a feature that grants the ability to do so. The cleric and the druid, for example, have such a feature. The caster must also have the spell prepared or on his or her list of spells known, unless the character’s ritual feature specifies otherwise, as the wizard’s does."

"Animal Messenger


2nd-level enchantment (ritual)

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S, M (a morsel of food)
Duration: 24 hours

By means of this spell, you use an animal to deliver a message. Choose a Tiny beast you can see within range, such as a squirrel, a blue jay, or a bat. You specify a location, which you must have visited, and a recipient who matches a general description, such as “a man or woman dressed in the uniform of the town guard” or “a red-haired dwarf wearing a pointed hat.” You also speak a message of up to twenty-five words. The target beast travels for the duration of the spell toward the specified location, covering about 50 miles per 24 hours for a flying messenger, or 25 miles for other animals.

When the messenger arrives, it delivers your message to the creature that you described, replicating the sound of your voice. The messenger speaks only to a creature matching the description you gave. If the messenger doesn’t reach its destination before the spell ends, the message is lost, and the beast makes its way back to where you cast this spell.

At Higher Levels: If you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the duration of the spell increases by 48 hours for each slot level above 2nd."

The tiny beast is still a beast and only automatically comes back if they don't arrive at their destination in time.

So lets get a bunch of Poisonous Snakes Flying Snakes... Like, a lot.

So for 18 hours a day (we allow for two short rests so that eating can be done plus give these suckers some time to get to their destination) each level 3 druid caster will be casting Animal Messenger. That will be 108 Flying Sneks (18 hours = 1,080 mins = 106 10.1-min castings). Probably won't need more casting but if we have two or three druids casters... Overkill is nice.

Animal Messenger them while they are in their cage. The spell lasts for 24 hours so we want to be close-ish to the enemy's lair. This could be an orc chieftain or maybe a politician...

Let them loose. You now have (106 * # of Druids Casters) Flying Snakes coming directly at some poor dude. Have the message be one word, something short, something that doesn't link these snakes to you "hiss" works well.

Once they give the message... Well, they are going to be snakes. Snakes have one real option when startled, which with the mass panic that will be going on, which is bite the hell out of all living things.

This would take some time to set up but I find it fun that a group of level 3 players could send (106 * N) snakes to an enemy. Or if you want to take out a town... NPC commoners are quite easy to kill after all.

AC: 13
HP: 2
+5 to hit, 1 damage + (2d4 Poison damage, DC 10 save half)

A lot of these snakes are going to die, which is why this is very Druid. However with massive numbers comes massive casualties. Especially if you send these at night (2 or 3 AM) when most creatures will have disadvantage on seeing/attacking while the snakes have blindsight 10.

Whoever you sent these after is going to fricken die.


Note: All the snakes are let loose at once.

Note 2: Make sure to release snakes from different directions. No running away.

Note 3: At DPR 8 that's still 848 points of damage per PC doing this. 4 x 848 = 3,392 per round.

If you think the snakes won't attack... Why would they attack an adventurer on sight but not anyone else? :p

Note 4: This is the type of 3e/4e shenanigans I've missed.


Jellypooga pointed out that Flying Snakes are an option. I was unaware that they were in the SRD lol

I wonder if we could kill a dragon this way... Probably not but it would be a great way to start the battle :P

[ATHATH]

Niiiiiiiiice. I had thought about strapping some kind of magical proximity mine to animals affected by Animal Messenger, but this idea is way better/easier to pull off.

[Puh Laden]

I'd allow it. But they'd have to go on quite a few excursions to capture all those snakes and to buy the cage.

[RickAllison]

For extra points, open the cages into a pen so you can send them all in at once. A bunch of snakes showing up one at a time are easily dispatched, but a swarm just gets ridiculous!

[R.Shackleford]

Niiiiiiiiice. I had thought about strapping some kind of magical proximity mine to animals affected by Animal Messenger, but this idea is way better/easier to pull off.

Thank you.

I'm not sure about easier, hording snakes would suck.



For extra points, open the cages into a pen so you can send them all in at once. A bunch of snakes showing up one at a time are easily dispatched, but a swarm just gets ridiculous!

Yup, that's what I was thinking :smallbiggrin:

I'll make it more clear.

[JellyPooga]

Why use Poisonous Snakes when Flying Snakes exist? Finding a nest of several hundred Flying Snakes is probably an issue to consider, but imagine finding that "motherlode" on some exotic island somewhere...

[R.Shackleford]

Why use Poisonous Snakes when Flying Snakes exist? Finding a nest of several hundred Flying Snakes is probably an issue to consider, but imagine finding that "motherlode" on some exotic island somewhere...

I didn't see it in the SRD and only wanted to use SRD monsters... But I'll be dang... Flying Snakes are in the SRD...

Flying Snakes it is!

[XmonkTad]

Note 4: This is the type of 3e/4e shenanigans I've missed.

Ah, the mailman druid. This looks like a great idea.

[RickAllison]

Another use of the spell in a similar way is just to sabotage someone's sleep cycle. Just send endless amounts of squirrels, birds, and bugs to transmit yelling at the other party. Good luck getting a long rest when you have bugs shouting at you at least every ten minutes...

[R.Shackleford]

Ah, the mailman druid. This looks like a great idea.

Hahaha yeah that's a great name for it... But I don't know if Druids would be ok with it...

A lot of animal death that may be seen as needless.


Another use of the spell in a similar way is just to sabotage someone's sleep cycle. Just send endless amounts of squirrels, birds, and bugs to transmit yelling at the other party. Good luck getting a long rest when you have bugs shouting at you at least every ten minutes...

So the best anti-caster is a ritual caster?

[RickAllison]

Hahaha yeah that's a great name for it... But I don't know if Druids would be ok with it...

A lot of animal death that may be seen as needless.



So the best anti-caster is a ritual caster?

I can see it now, a legendary archmage forced out of his quarters at night because he is bombarded by bumblebees. He would have to retreat to a Demiplane, or Teleport away to sleep soundly.

Of course, that opens up his place to invasion...

[smcmike]

This is super sweet.

Pretty hard to rely on, though. "Hey boss, a buncha dumb snakes just slithered in the front gate." "Great. Inform the cooks."

[R.Shackleford]

I can see it now, a legendary archmage forced out of his quarters at night because he is bombarded by bumblebees. He would have to retreat to a Demiplane, or Teleport away to sleep soundly.

Of course, that opens up his place to invasion...

If a party of level 3 adventurers can cause a wizard to retreat to his or her demi plane...

That wizard will be the laughing stock of the world.


This is super sweet.

Pretty hard to rely on, though. "Hey boss, a buncha dumb snakes just slithered in the front gate." "Great. Inform the cooks."

Flying snakes don't slither, they fly. :smallcool:

Also if I don't think 106 - 426 flying snakes is going to be called "a bunch".



Side Note: I now want to set up a world were there is a cold war going on. Instead of nukes everyone is on edge about a snake-tsunami.

[ATHATH]

Side Note: I now want to set up a world were there is a cold war going on. Instead of nukes everyone is on edge about a snake-tsunami.
Sigged.

This sentence is here because of this forum's minimum character limit.

[R.Shackleford]

Sigged.

This sentence is here because of this forum's minimum character limit.

Oh sweet!

I could see someone in game going...

This cold war just got... cold blooded :smallcool:

[NNescio]

That's an awesome and creative use of the spell, and perfectly legit for a Druid too, if the stakes are high enough (e.g. defiler of nature on the loose, etc. etc.). Worse comes to worse, he gets consent from the animals (via Speak with Animals) before he sends them.

[Foxhound438]

2 issues:

1) the snakes are pretty weak, and ordinary lackeys (say, a thug) could easily 2v1 them. And any villain worth their salt will have a decent following occupying their base. Especially if said lackeys see them coming from 400ish feet away, which isn't a far stretch if there's hundreds of them flying in.

2) you need to have visited the location that you're sending a message to. sure a rogue can sneak in and out, but that's not the caster. It would have to be a plan B.

[Telok]

Rabid vampire bats would do nicely. Yeah, they don't pose too much of a threat when they arrive since they'll just repeat the message, flutter around in a panic and leave. But they will be tired from the long flight so they won't go far, and that night they'll be hungry. You'll set off a rabies pandemic in the local mammal population, which is pretty dangerous in D&D land. Just a basic rabid dog is a deadly threat to a commoner.

[Christian]

If a party of level 3 adventurers can cause a wizard to retreat to his or her demi plane...

That wizard will be the laughing stock of the world.



Gets worse if one of his rivals is able to somehow open a Gate for them so the snakes can follow him. Then you have the poor wizard running around screaming, "I have had it with this m---f---ing snakes on ..."

OK, never mind, I'm leaving now.

[R.Shackleford]

2 issues:

1) the snakes are pretty weak, and ordinary lackeys (say, a thug) could easily 2v1 them. And any villain worth their salt will have a decent following occupying their base. Especially if said lackeys see them coming from 400ish feet away, which isn't a far stretch if there's hundreds of them flying in.

2) you need to have visited the location that you're sending a message to. sure a rogue can sneak in and out, but that's not the caster. It would have to be a plan B.

All of this has been adressed.

1: 106 snakes would be released at once (106 x #PCs doing this). A single person (or small group) can't kill enough for them to stop take heavy damage.

1.a: They are being released at 2 am. Even with darkvision you have disadvantage on Perception checks (dim light). The snakes are being released at once from multiple directions.

2: You are going to the place, no problem, you are even releasing the snakes at said place.

***

In a bounded accuracy system such as 5e enough low CR creatures are still a threat for high CR creatures unless they have damage immunity.

Like taking out a dragon with a bunch of commoners.

[smcmike]

The central problem is the assumption that they will attack. Also, windows.

[R.Shackleford]

The central problem is the assumption that they will attack. Also, windows.

If you assume they won't attack when not under the animal messenger spell then why assume they will attack PCs on sight?

PC walks into a cavery and there is three flying snakes... Do you roll initiative or do you say "what makes you think they will attack".

My answer to that question is that they are snakes. They attack because they are snakes.

[smcmike]

If you assume they won't attack when not under the animal messenger spell then why assume they will attack PCs on sight?

PC walks into a cavery and there is three flying snakes... Do you roll initiative or do you say "what makes you think they will attack".

My answer to that question is that they are snakes. They attack because they are snakes.

Actually, no, I don't assume that beasts attack on sight. Beasts are usually the sort of obstacle that can be overcome in a variety of ways - avoiding them, fighting them, scaring them off, or having the Druid talk pretty to them.

If the PCs stumble into their nest, it's probably time for a fight. If they happen to see a flying snake hanging out in a nearby tree, they can either shoot it for supper or walk on by.

[R.Shackleford]

Actually, no, I don't assume that beasts attack on sight. Beasts are usually the sort of obstacle that can be overcome in a variety of ways - avoiding them, fighting them, scaring them off, or having the Druid talk pretty to them.

If the PCs stumble into their nest, it's probably time for a fight. If they happen to see a flying snake hanging out in a nearby tree, they can either shoot it for supper or walk on by.

So you are at work and 106 - 424 snakes suddenly make their way into your building and just snek-tsunami and fill up the room... that all the people are going to be fine and not get bit?

I don't think snakes have a concept of home/not home and are pretty much just angry ropes.

[smcmike]

So you are at work and 106 - 424 snakes suddenly make their way into your building and just snek-tsunami and fill up the room... that all the people are going to be fine and not get bit?

I don't think snakes have a concept of home/not home and are pretty much just angry ropes.

If I'm at work, the snakes will slither (or fly) up to the exterior door, which will defeat them. Everyone will get up from their desks and gawk at the pile of snakes at the front door, and the security guard will presumably stop playing on his cell phone long enough to call animal control.

If the snakes did make it inside, most everyone would be standing on their desks, which should be enough to be safe from real snakes.

I'm really not criticizing this idea. I think it's great and fun. I just don't think it would actually do much. Most snakes only bite humans defensively.

[Zalabim]

So you are at work and 106 - 424 snakes suddenly make their way into your building and just snek-tsunami and fill up the room... that all the people are going to be fine and not get bit?

I don't think snakes have a concept of home/not home and are pretty much just angry ropes.

I am literally the security guard on his cell phone for this, but that description of snakes is just so wrong and hilarious. If I were inclined to have a sig, you'd be in it.

[BW022]

Lots of problems with this...



By means of this spell, you use an animal to deliver a message.


It doesn't say that the animal does anything other than deliver a message. Nothing says it is going to attack creatures after speaking its message.



Choose a Tiny beast you can see within range, such as a squirrel, a blue jay, or a bat.


Where are you going to find 100+ animals sitting there for hours on end? You won't. If you just go some place, you find whatever animals are around. If you want a specific animal, you'd need to go track, search, or use locate animals. You then need the animal to stay around for 10 minutes as you chant for the ritual cast.



So lets get a bunch of Poisonous Snakes Flying Snakes... Like, a lot.


Where do you find the snakes? The spell does not summon animals. They must be present, within 30 feet, and willing to remain there for the 10 minute ritual cast. Sorry... how common are snakes in your area? What is the terrain like? What time of day is it that the snakes are out and about? How much time are you willing to spend traveling around? What are your survival and nature rolls like to find them? What other animals or creatures are also out and about and how many larger animals are you likely to run into while doing this?

And if you are talking flying snakes... how do you manage to get within 30' and why are they sitting there for 10+ minutes while you ritual cast? Most are likely in fairly swampy, jungled, etc. areas. Is the campaign even set there?



Animal Messenger them while they are in their cage.


How did you get them into a cage? How many days, weeks, or months did you spend trying to get a hundred snakes into cages. Do you have a cart with 100+ cages? Where do you get the food to feed them?



The spell lasts for 24 hours so we want to be close-ish to the enemy's lair. This could be an orc chieftain or maybe a politician...


You are transporting 100+ snakes to within a few miles of an enemy's lair?



"You specify a location, which you must have visited, and a recipient who matches a general description..."


You must have been inside the lair. Kind of dangerous -- even with wildshape.



Once they give the message... Well, they are going to be snakes. Snakes have one real option when startled, which with the mass panic that will be going on, which is bite the hell out of all living things.


No. They are tiny snakes. They would do what tiny snakes would do when faced with a creature hundreds of times their size ... flee into the nearest hole, rock, woods, etc. Wild animals only attack for food, defending their young, defending themselves, startled, etc. A flying snake would presumably... fly away. They are not summoned, charmed, possessed, compelled, etc. other than to deliver a message. Nor does the spell say that they approach within 5' of the creature.

Nor are they going to arrive over a long distance trip all at once -- even if you released 100+ animals over of a few minutes. Nor are mass numbers of such animals likely to make it miles without having attracted predators. Dogs, vultures, hawks, wolves, and pretty much anything in the area would be eating most of these.

Even if you DM ruled that the snakes are aggressive... and attack anyone near them, then they should be biting you when you let them out of their cages or when you are capturing them? If the spell makes them non-aggressive until they deliver their message... after the first few snakes arrive and get aggressive, why don't the enemy or villagers just club the snakes to death one-by-one as they are arriving at the village and before/during them delivering their message.



This would take some time to set up but I find it fun that a group of level 3 players could send (106 * N) snakes to an enemy. Or if you want to take out a town... NPC commoners are quite easy to kill after all.


Ignoring that the spell doesn't say that the animals will attack anyone after the spell ends, nor would a tiny animal do so rather than flee... I'm sure townsfolk could figure out after the first few snakes 'attacked', that they can move 100' from the person the snakes are going towards... and beat the snakes to death with sticks as they move in. Or scare them away with torches, like fires, put up clouds of smoke, put the person in a building and let the snakes deliver their message from outside, etc.



A lot of these snakes are going to die, which is why this is very Druid. However with massive numbers comes massive casualties. Especially if you send these at night (2 or 3 AM) when most creatures will have disadvantage on seeing/attacking while the snakes have blindsight 10.


Or they light some torches and scare the snakes away.




Whoever you sent these after is going to fricken die.


Nothing in the spell says they attack anyone. Let alone, no reason a tiny animal would attack someone hundreds of times their size. Especially if they have fires or torches out -- which after the first few snakes, they would.



All the snakes are let loose at once.


Somewhat meaningless. Ignoring you can't open 100+ cages at once, 100+ animals traveling a distance of miles is going to be spread out over some time. Minutes, probably tens of minutes per mile.



Make sure to release snakes from different directions. No running away.


Now you have to surround a village, at pretty much the same travel distance. That means multiple carts (through the wilderness? on major roads?) and coordinate this within a few minutes.



At DPR 8 that's still 848 points of damage per PC doing this. 4 x 848 = 3,392 per round.


The spell does not compel them to attack random people before or after they deliver their message. Nor does the spell say that the creatures won't attack you, if the DM were to suddenly rule that they become massively aggressive creatures. They are far more likely to attack you while you are trying to collect them... along with the dozens of other encounters you are likely to face over the weeks of snake collecting in the wilderness.



If you think the snakes won't attack... Why would they attack an adventurer on sight but not anyone else? :p


They don't. Why would they attack adventurers? In any sane campaign, tiny creatures are going to flee, hide, etc. unless... (a) attacked themselves, (b) protecting lairs or young, (c) summoned, compelled, charmed, etc., (d) specifically trained to do so, or (e) unable to flee and obviously threatened. I see none of this. However, if the DM is going to rule that they attack anything on site... they would immediately attack you when you released them, every animal (dog, wolves, badger, crane, etc.) on the way (likely all dying over a half-mile), or each other (they certainly aren't all liter mates, same species, etc.)

I've met lots of tiny snakes. I find them in my backyard all the time. I pick them up and toss them into a nearby bush. They attack spiders. Even poisonous ones... you push away with a rake and they slither off.


Any good DM would see you nearly kills yourselves trying to collect the snakes -- both from being attacked by the snakes, or from random encounters in wilderness areas likely to have lots of poisonous snakes. Then spending vast amounts of time feeding, transporting, and caring for hundreds of snakes. Then, upon release... they go deliver their message and then fly/slither away. Probably summons hundreds of hawks, eagles, and other predators around the areas. A poor (or annoyed) DM who is willing to rule that 1' long snakes suddenly become aggressive lunatics... would immediately have them attack you upon release, or other animals or each other (most getting themselves killed).

[R.Shackleford]

Lots of problems with this...



It doesn't say that the animal does anything other than deliver a message. Nothing says it is going to attack creatures after speaking its message.




See, I'm just going to respond to the first problem here.

(first see note 4)

You are saying that the creatures don't act like creatures after delivering the message. If you drop 100's of snakes into a room, would the snakes say "you know what, I delivered my message, lets go home".


No, because they are snakes. Snakes aren't thinking like that. They don't have the intelligence to think like that.

So you are already trying to make the creature not act like a creature.

:smallsmile:

[smcmike]

That's exactly how snakes think, though - they would head for the safest place to get could find, ASAP. If they perceived a threat, such as someone in their way, yeah, they might bite him. But the vast majority of snakes don't seek out people to attack.

[Joe the Rat]

So what we need then is a tiny beast (perferably flying) that more inclined than not to attack larger creatures.

What we need to do is get a few hundred stirges...

[Tanarii]

They don't. Why would they attack adventurers? In any sane campaign, tiny creatures are going to flee, hide, etc. unless... (a) attacked themselves, (b) protecting lairs or young, (c) summoned, compelled, charmed, etc., (d) specifically trained to do so, or (e) unable to flee and obviously threatened. I see none of this. However, if the DM is going to rule that they attack anything on site... they would immediately attack you when you released them, every animal (dog, wolves, badger, crane, etc.) on the way (likely all dying over a half-mile), or each other (they certainly aren't all liter mates, same species, etc.)

I've met lots of tiny snakes. I find them in my backyard all the time. I pick them up and toss them into a nearby bush. They attack spiders. Even poisonous ones... you push away with a rake and they slither off.


Any good DM would see you nearly kills yourselves trying to collect the snakes -- both from being attacked by the snakes, or from random encounters in wilderness areas likely to have lots of poisonous snakes. Then spending vast amounts of time feeding, transporting, and caring for hundreds of snakes. Then, upon release... they go deliver their message and then fly/slither away. Probably summons hundreds of hawks, eagles, and other predators around the areas. A poor (or annoyed) DM who is willing to rule that 1' long snakes suddenly become aggressive lunatics... would immediately have them attack you upon release, or other animals or each other (most getting themselves killed).
Rattlesnakes other vipers are all Tiny. They can and will bite humans if they are distressed and/or cornered.

I'm not agreeing with the OP that such creatures should attack anyone automatically. But a hundred of them in a room or cave with you, assuming they somehow get there, are a pretty serious threat that no sane person would dismiss as something that can be pushed away with rake.

[RickAllison]

Rattlesnakes other vipers are all Tiny. They can and will bite humans if they are distressed and/or cornered.

I'm not agreeing with the OP that such creatures should attack anyone automatically. But a hundred of them in a room or cave with you, assuming they somehow get there, are a pretty serious threat that no sane person would dismiss as something that can be pushed away with rake.

And all it takes is one person unknowingly pissing one off to cause nearby ones to become hostile, who residents must beat back which causes others to become hostile, and so on. All it takes is one bad move and the entire thing will become madness.

[Tanarii]

And all it takes is one person unknowingly pissing one off to cause nearby ones to become hostile, who residents must beat back which causes others to become hostile, and so on. All it takes is one bad move and the entire thing will become madness.
With that many in one place, would they already be hostile due to the presence of other?

I don't really know that much about viper snakes, I was just commenting on the silliness of dismissing a hundred or more in the same room as you. Are they combative amongst themselves? Does being in the presence of females make the males agressive?

To the researchtorium!

[ATHATH]

So what we need then is a tiny beast (perferably flying) that more inclined than not to attack larger creatures.

What we need to do is get a few hundred stirges...
I think this is a much better idea- we don't have to debate about the aggressiveness of snakes, and, IIRC, stirges tend to come in large swarms, which makes collecting them easier.

[SharkForce]

I think this is a much better idea- we don't have to debate about the aggressiveness of snakes, and, IIRC, stirges tend to come in large swarms, which makes collecting them easier.

well, easier in one respect, anyways.

i can imagine some... complications that could arise from trying to collect a horde of giant mosquitoes.

[Segev]

well, easier in one respect, anyways.

i can imagine some... complications that could arise from trying to collect a horde of giant mosquitoes.

Can you imagine the size of the malaria they'd inflict? >_> <_<

[smcmike]

I'd just like to say that, irrespective of my relative lack of fear of snakes, this thread has me wanting to play an evil Druid. I don't think animal messenger is a very good assassination spell, but it's a heck of a good spell for terrorizing people. You think a pile of snakes is scary? How about random animals, including venomous snakes, just randomly showing up day after day and threatening you?


Also, maybe biting. Catch yourself a really aggressive viper and send it to the baths at just the right time....

[RickAllison]

I'd just like to say that, irrespective of my relative lack of fear of snakes, this thread has me wanting to play an evil Druid. I don't think animal messenger is a very good assassination spell, but it's a heck of a good spell for terrorizing people. You think a pile of snakes is scary? How about random animals, including venomous snakes, just randomly showing up day after day and threatening you?


Also, maybe biting. Catch yourself a really aggressive viper and send it to the baths at just the right time....

Send a plague of pests through ritual casting from the dump. Rats who fulfill the spell won't return, they will hunker down in nice and warm places in the new area.

Send sick and dying creatures. Spread disease and disgust as streets become filled with dying fauna. Send insects to start destroying crops as they reproduce, omens due to things like black cats. The possibilities are endless!

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I leave 5e for a while, well mostly, and I come back to this?

Nice.

Can we give the snakes hats?

http://imgur.com/gallery/g0pzP

[RickAllison]

I leave 5e for a while, well mostly, and I come back to this?

Nice.

Can we give the snakes hats?

http://imgur.com/gallery/g0pzP

"Why are you running from me? I'm jussssst a cute little bunny. How nicccccce to ssssssee you!"

[SpawnOfMorbo]

"Why are you running from me? I'm jussssst a cute little bunny. How nicccccce to ssssssee you!"

"kissssses for all"

[BW022]

Rattlesnakes other vipers are all Tiny. They can and will bite humans if they are distressed and/or cornered.

I'm not agreeing with the OP that such creatures should attack anyone automatically. But a hundred of them in a room or cave with you, assuming they somehow get there, are a pretty serious threat that no sane person would dismiss as something that can be pushed away with rake.

Assuming a rattlesnake isn't small-sized.

Again... lets assume the animal is insanely vicious. Why doesn't it attack the druid when released? Ok... lets assume the animal friendship makes it docile but only during the trip. Fine. The magic ends and the animal suddenly thinks the best thing to do is to attack something -- ignoring that even rattlesnakes will flee. Fine. Why isn't the nearest or most frightening creature... another snake? I'm pretty sure the other snakes would be a much more frightening than some human 15-20 feet back. And... I have never seen a video of a rattlesnake knowingly attacking someone with a torch held in front of them, let alone someone with five torches laying on the ground.

All 100 aren't likely to arrive at once. However, even if a dozen or so arrive... why aren't they attacking each other? Why the human -- likely holding a torch? Is the human blocking their way out?

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Assuming a rattlesnake isn't small-sized.

:smalleek:

Halfling sized rattlesnakes? 45lbs snakes??? Are you kidding me????

Their average weight, for the big type, is like 10lbs.

We don't need to multiply that by a factor of 4, no thank you.


*****

As for the rest of your post, you really are just glossing over a lot of stuff. I can't take your posts seriously.

[Tanarii]

Assuming a rattlesnake isn't small-sized.Rattlesnakes & Vipers are Poisonous Snakes, which makes them Tiny. Nice try with the attempting to cast doubt where there is none to be cast though.


Again... lets assume the animal is insanely vicious.No, lets not. Let's instead assume it behaves like a perfectly normal poisonous snake and bites when it feels threatened / cornered.


All 100 aren't likely to arrive at once. However, even if a dozen or so arrive... why aren't they attacking each other? Why the human -- likely holding a torch? Is the human blocking their way out?Who says they aren't attacking each other? And what's holding a torch got to do with anything? Do you think snakes are afraid of light or something? :smallconfused:

Actually, let me rephrase that. Are snakes afraid of light? I honestly don't know. :smallbiggrin:

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Rattlesnakes & Vipers are Poisonous Snakes, which makes them Tiny. Nice try with the attempting to cast doubt where there is none to be cast though.

No, lets not. Let's instead assume it behaves like a perfectly normal poisonous snake and bites when it feels threatened / cornered.

Who says they aren't attacking each other? And what's holding a torch got to do with anything? Do you think snakes are afraid of light or something? :smallconfused:

Actually, let me rephrase that. Are snakes afraid of light? I honestly don't know. :smallbiggrin:

As someone who has been almost bit multiple times by snakes, they do not fear light.

Though, if you spray gasoline (mix with water in a spray bottle) around they will slither away like crazy because that sets off their senses and they hate it.

[RickAllison]

:smalleek:

Halfling sized rattlesnakes? 45lbs snakes??? Are you kidding me????

Their average weight, for the big type, is like 10lbs.

We don't need to multiply that by a factor of 4, no thank you.


*****

As for the rest of your post, you really are just glossing over a lot of stuff. I can't take your posts seriously.

Technically, the largest venomous snakes do reach around 45 pounds. Of course, that is far from typical, just like how atypical, massive halfling a would fit into the lower end of the Medium pool were it not for proportions, and how exceedingly large humans reach sizes that would be Large for weight.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Technically, the largest venomous snakes do reach around 45 pounds. Of course, that is far from typical, just like how atypical, massive halfling a would fit into the lower end of the Medium pool were it not for proportions, and how exceedingly large humans reach sizes that would be Large for weight.

I was thinking of specifically rattlesnakes, I've seen some long ones but they would never get that big or weigh all that much.

Of course it doesn't matter what they are in real life, in 5e they are tiny :smallbiggrin:

[Safety Sword]

The ultimate plan... except for doors.

[RickAllison]

I was thinking of specifically rattlesnakes, I've seen some long ones but they would never get that big or weigh all that much.

Of course it doesn't matter what they are in real life, in 5e they are tiny :smallbiggrin:

Eastern diamondback rattlesnakes. Not the largest, but the heaviest. Greatest measured weight was 34 pounds, though longer specimens have been reported but not scientifically verified. Not quite halfling-sized, but fairly close!

[Tanarii]

The ultimate plan... except for doors.
And needing to sneak in and visit the place first.

And know a general description of someone in the place to trigger the message delivery.

[RickAllison]

And needing to sneak in and visit the place first.

And know a general description of someone in the place to trigger the message delivery.

Really a better spell for terrorizing a populace than infiltrating a hideout.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

The ultimate plan... except for doors.

I don't know about you, but I have doors and windows in my house and yet I still find a snake or two every year in my basement.

And I'm pretty sure my doors seal up better than what the doors during the middle ages did.

[Safety Sword]

I don't know about you, but I have doors and windows in my house and yet I still find a snake or two every year in my basement.

And I'm pretty sure my doors seal up better than what the doors during the middle ages did.

The only animals in my house are the humans and the insects.

Then again, I live in Australia, so if you find a snake in your house you just concede and move out. :smallamused:

[ATHATH]

Assuming a rattlesnake isn't small-sized.

Again... lets assume the animal is insanely vicious. Why doesn't it attack the druid when released? Ok... lets assume the animal friendship makes it docile but only during the trip. Fine. The magic ends and the animal suddenly thinks the best thing to do is to attack something -- ignoring that even rattlesnakes will flee. Fine. Why isn't the nearest or most frightening creature... another snake? I'm pretty sure the other snakes would be a much more frightening than some human 15-20 feet back. And... I have never seen a video of a rattlesnake knowingly attacking someone with a torch held in front of them, let alone someone with five torches laying on the ground.

All 100 aren't likely to arrive at once. However, even if a dozen or so arrive... why aren't they attacking each other? Why the human -- likely holding a torch? Is the human blocking their way out?
Well, if we go with the Stirge plan, a Warforged (presented in that Eberron UA) Druid could be their handler.

[RickAllison]

Well, if we go with the Stirge plan, a Warforged (presented in that Eberron UA) Druid could be their handler.

The real question is whether he is a Maximal or a Predacon :smallwink:

[SharkForce]

The real question is whether he is a Maximal or a Predacon :smallwink:

clearly predacon. anyone possessed of basic decency would not permit giant mosquitoes continue to exist :P

[R.Shackleford]

clearly predacon. anyone possessed of basic decency would not permit giant mosquitoes continue to exist :P

We all must all be predacons then, as we have the means to eradicate mosquitos but haven't yet.


http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35408835

[Kurt Kurageous]

Luzl. Great theory. Joe wins by suggesting stirges, which you can harvest, control, and count on to attack. Plus, they suck!

[R.Shackleford]

Just realized that a lot of people are terrified of spiders and snakes.

[Safety Sword]

Just realized that a lot of people are terrified of spiders and snakes.

I'm not, but thought it played better to pretend to be...