Human vs Silvanesti Elf

[Linic]

Hello, I'll be starting a 3.5 Dragonlance Campaign soon and I will be the primary caster, I've chosen wizard as my class but I'm having difficulty choosing between human and Silvanesti Elf as my race, these are the stats I rolled.

Str: 9
Dex: 14
Con: 18
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha: 13

I'm hoping to get a fresh perspective from the vast experience pool of the playground. Thank you in advance for any help you choose to give.

[eggynack]

Depends on two factors. First, what are you planning to do with human? After all, a human is their feat, and so the value of human depends on whether you really need that feat. Second, what are you planning to do with elf? It seems like an obvious question, but elves have access to the fancy elven generalist levels, which can be combined with domain wizard, and the combination of the two is likely stronger than just about anything you'd do with a single feat. Especially with that intelligence bonus. Moreover, elves can use dark chaos shuffle to turn all their weapon proficiency feats into actual feats, and if you do that then the ensuing feat pile is inevitably stronger than the human's single feat and skill point. If you aren't using any cool elf stuff, then the extra feat has a good chance of being better than elf stuff. But it's not definitely so. After all, sometimes you don't need a feat that much. It happens.

[One Step Two]

Hello, I'll be starting a 3.5 Dragonlance Campaign soon and I will be the primary caster, I've chosen wizard as my class but I'm having difficulty choosing between human and Silvanesti Elf as my race, these are the stats I rolled.

Str: 9
Dex: 14
Con: 18
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha: 13

I'm hoping to get a fresh perspective from the vast experience pool of the playground. Thank you in advance for any help you choose to give.

I'm leaning towards Silvasnesti elf as a race. It's attractive for the +2 int and dex, but the -2 con and cha can hurt alot. The bonuses to spellcraft and knowledge arcana are good, and other than that, they get everything else that elves in the phb get, along with Dragonlance's Elfsight for dark vision. It's all very comparable to the 1 feat humans get. Not as versatile, but still strong.

Given that you're playing dragonlance, things to consider is this: your race matters to some, and as a wizard, if you're not a white robe wizard after your test, you'll be considered a dark elf by almost everyone. Other than being a caster, how do you see your character developing, and if I may ask, what source books are you allowed access to?

[Zanos]

+2 int makes a wizard better at everything they care about, and being an Elf specifically qualifies you for cool wizard stuff, like Elven Generalist.

Unless I have a specific feat in mind that won't fit into a build otherwise, I prefer +2 int races over feat races for my wizards.

[Fizban]

Between the stats themselves and the setting implications, I'd say elf.

You've got plenty enough con to take the penalty, and pushing your int above maximum is pretty huge. The extra AC/ranged attack/reflex save could be nice in a setting with magic items harder to come by, as is low-light vision (a massive advantage if lighting is ever enforced properly). Elves live longer, so you've got all sorts of justification for knowing extra information the other characters don't because you've been alive since the last big thing happened. You have to be a white robe, but being an official Good GuyTM means people in power will be willing to deal with you. Depending on time period there may or may not be a serious divide between the elves, but I always got the impression that humans treated them Tolkien style ie: anyone who's not an elf thinks they're awesome at everything, giving you more innate social advantages. The Bad GuysTM hate you by default, but they were going to do that anyway.

The only downsides are the wizard oaths prohibiting your elf weapons and losing the human bonus feat, but if you're even asking the question then it's clear you don't have a build plan that actually needs the feat. I may hate elves, but now that I've thought about it, Dragonlance is a setting where I don't actually mind them. Probably because most of it has been spent absolutely walking all over them, makes me feel a bit sympathetic.

[Inevitability]

If your DM allows you to take the FR feat Otherworldly, elf gets a lot more attractive.

If necessary, you could say your character has heard about the FR from a planar traveller, then took two ranks in knowledge (evermeet).

[BWR]

If you're looking at this from a mechanics perspective I'd say you're Doing It Wrong.
Look at the cultures of Krynn and see which of the human cultures or the Silvanesti appeals most to you. Which cultures look cool? How can you work your backstory (thick or thin as it may be) into how and why you became a caster? What is your relationship to the other cultures and races of Krynn?
That's really all that matters when creating a character.

[Inevitability]

If you're looking at this from a mechanics perspective I'd say you're Doing It Wrong.
Look at the cultures of Krynn and see which of the human cultures or the Silvanesti appeals most to you. Which cultures look cool? How can you work your backstory (thick or thin as it may be) into how and why you became a caster? What is your relationship to the other cultures and races of Krynn?
That's really all that matters when creating a character.

People quoting the stormwind fallacy, arguing you're wrong, and generally beating dead horses in 3... 2... 1...

[HurinTheCursed]

As often, Silvanesti are more a race with a brilliant past, now fighting for survival.
In Krynn, Silvanesti to behave as proudly as minotaurs do, yet many see them as beggars once kings since they lost almost everything and mostly ask for favors way more than they are ready to help.
Humans and even other elves have hard time with Silvanesti , they might be the second most prejudiced against race after kenders.

Humans, while not that much on the rise, tend to get tolerated with everyone more easily since their alignment and affiliation is more flexible. The colour of your robe is another matter however.

Mechanic-wise, with two 18, you can play almost any caster. The constitution malus of Silvanesti will not be a problem.

[Linic]

Well elf seems to be the general consensus, thank you for all the input, the campaign seems to be set an undefined time before the start of the Dragonlance chronicles. No materials are banned per say, but he'd prefer if things stayed relatively close to the world and theme of Dragonlance so everything is subject to Dm's approval, for instance we have a warblade in the group because the concept of fighting techniques are easy to believe could exist, while adding races like Goliath and Warforged to a world where they don't exist is more difficult, he doesn't have a problem with some min/maxing but he did basicly ban anything overpowered, abusable or "cheesy".

After some reading and talking to the Dm, I will have to join the Orders of High Sorcery and will be choosing white robe, a problem came up in that I have to specialize in the Abjuration or Divination school of magic, while not necessarily a big problem, I was considering doing a focused specialist conjurer, is that still possible or should i find a different build? I can do the research but I find asking people with experience to be much more reliable.

[One Step Two]

Well elf seems to be the general consensus, thank you for all the input, the campaign seems to be set an undefined time before the start of the Dragonlance chronicles. No materials are banned per say, but he'd prefer if things stayed relatively close to the world and theme of Dragonlance so everything is subject to Dm's approval, for instance we have a warblade in the group because the concept of fighting techniques are easy to believe could exist, while adding races like Goliath and Warforged to a world where they don't exist is more difficult, he doesn't have a problem with some min/maxing but he did basicly ban anything overpowered, abusable or "cheesy".

After some reading and talking to the Dm, I will have to join the Orders of High Sorcery and will be choosing white robe, a problem came up in that I have to specialize in the Abjuration or Divination school of magic, while not necessarily a big problem, I was considering doing a focused specialist conjurer, is that still possible or should i find a different build? I can do the research but I find asking people with experience to be much more reliable.

I've played as a wizard in a Dragonlance campaign from 1st level to epic, so I hope I can give you some worthwhile advice. Firstly, if you want to go the Generalist Wizard route, you can. In the Age of Mortals book for Dragonlance, there's a ruling on page 65, that allows you to remain a Generalist wizard, however, if you do so, you may not use the Enhanced Specialization benefit at 1st level, but all other benefits are received as normal.

[Linic]

I was going to go focused specialist conjurer, a friend had recommended giving it a try since he had a lot of fun and success with it, however the Order requires white robes to specialize in Abjuration or Divination, at least I thought so till you brought up the ruling In the Age of Mortals book. Would the way the ruling is worded allow me to go with my original plan?

[One Step Two]

Unfortunately the ruling in Age of Mortals pertains specifically to Generalist wizards, not ones of other specializations. The Wizard of High sorcery class is packed with flavorful abilities, but is restrictive. As a Focused Specialist Conjurer however, the class adds less than the specializations relative to the orders, it has stuff you can use, but most of the "Order Secret" class abilities usually relate to the spell schools the Robes use most.

Your best bet is to talk to your GM. Some GM's may insist that you take levels of Wizard of High Sorcery, others might be fine with you simply taking the test, and not actually using the class. They may even be flexible enough to simply let you be a Conjurer specialist into the PrC even though it doesn't specifically allow it. This should be your first port of call.

Edit: I should point out that Age of Mortal is actually a Third Party book created by Sovereign Press. Margaret Wise, the creator of Dragonlance wrote the book mind you, but some DM's can take a hard stance on it not being "official" 3.5 materials as it was not created by WoTC, but it's still and officially licensed product.

[Linic]

I see, thank you for the prompt and detailed responses, as per usual, it comes down to discussing it with the Dm lol

[One Step Two]

I see, thank you for the prompt and detailed responses, as per usual, it comes down to discussing it with the Dm lol

Happy to help. And while it does come down to DM discussion, having additional information is very handy to have.

Having played a long Dragonlance campaign before, I really do endorse the third party books from Sovereign Press, and hope your group decides to use them.

Edit: Spelling errors

[Linic]

I will definitely be bringing it up at the next meeting.

[One Step Two]

If you can get a hold of the Towers of High Sorcery sourcebook, it has great information about running the Tests and more unique magic and items to the Dragonlance Campaign setting. As well, the Races of Ansolon provide tonnes of new tidbits about the different people you can run across in Krynn.

Holy order of the Stars and Knightly orders of Ansalon have tonnes of awesome PrCs for Divine casters, and Melee types too.