Flavor character, but maybe cool build idea?

[SMac8988]

I am working on a character for CoS, and want to run a paladin, it's been my favorite class since 3.5 but I normally DM and have never truly gotten to play one.

The backstory of my character involved him have being part of a roaming horde of orc/half orc and having been a barbarian for a bit, before finding his birth mother at a Temple of Pelor and becoming a paladin of the light.

My curiosity is, if I dump 3 levels in barbarian to get frenzy, and then go paladin. I know in heavy plate I will lose the damage and str advantage while raging. But I would get reckless attack, and frenzy. So at around level 8, 3 levels in barb first then go strictly Pali for 5. I could frenzy for 3 attack, one as a bonus, does that mean I could potentially smite all three of those attacks?

This is more a build for flavor that I found this. Was wondering how good/bad everyone feels a barb/Pali multi is?

[MrStabby]

I have never built one but some educated guesses:

1) Frenzy is almost never worth it. That said it is better on a multiclass than a single class as you can just use it in the last fight of the day (or expected fight anyway). Could you make do with 2 levels?

2) Mixed martials hurts before level 5 as you delay that extra attack. Be prepared to have a tougher time for a level or two.

3) You may want a few more spells for smites than the multiclass will give - meaning addition of a caster class later.

Paladin 6, Barbarian 2, Warlock 1 might work. If you want more resitance for rage then taking barbarian to 3 would also work, but i would advise the totem path from a pure power perspective.

[Dalebert]

I was thinking the same thing. If frenzy was the ONLY way you could benefit from rage, that's non-sustainable. Exhaustion is a beeyatch. Maybe find a way to make the build work with medium armor. And any more than one level dip in a melee from a melee feels painful for that 2nd attack delay. Even the one dip will be noticeable. The other melees in your party will have extra attack and you'll feel gimped.

[gfishfunk]

You could smite for all three attacks - but you will run through all your spell slots very, very quickly.

Consider wearing Medium armor instead - it should work just fine. You can have low AC with a barbarian rage feature because of the resistance. While not raging and fighting a horde, consider using Divine Favor (spell) that adds damage to all attacks instead of burning a spell slot for a single smite.

Smite is good. With your lower number of spell slots, you might want to save spell slots for when the smite can hit a big, big bad.

I think paladin and barbarian pair well.

[Sir cryosin]

If your wearing half plate with +1 ac fighting style your the same as plate and can still rage. Other then that it just 1 ac which can can't make a difference.

[SMac8988]

My idea is he would drop his full plate if he went into a frenzy rage and would only do this against a big bad. Then go unarmored. I've rolled my stats and I'm at 17 unarmored so, I'll be ok either way. It's more a flavor build and was wondering how well it would actually work out.

I like the idea of using blessing, scared weapon or divine favor for my damage buff when not going all on.

But three reckless smite filled great sword attacks seems kinda awesome...

[Specter]

Take 1st level as Barb, then the rest in pally. Raging and having an open chest iscworth it all by themselves. Reckless Attack is not very good if you want to tank, but is still an option.

[gfishfunk]

My idea is he would drop his full plate if he went into a frenzy rage and would only do this against a big bad. Then go unarmored. I've rolled my stats and I'm at 17 unarmored so, I'll be ok either way. It's more a flavor build and was wondering how well it would actually work out.

Just go unarmored, then, wearing nothing more than a loin-cloth.

Also, you cannot exactly 'drop' your plate mail as an action or something else, as it takes quite a while to take off. You can certainly do it during a short rest (or a non-rest short break) before going into the next encounter.

In short, totally viable.

[Biggstick]

Take 1st level as Barb, then the rest in pally. Raging and having an open chest iscworth it all by themselves. Reckless Attack is not very good if you want to tank, but is still an option.

Reckless Attack is a great way to draw attention to yourself. If you're using the ability, you're most likely going to be hitting the enemy and doing damage, while presenting an easy target to the enemy. It most definitely acts as a very good way to draw aggro from an enemy.

[Joe the Rat]

I'd still look at barb2, but I'd pick it up after Pal 5 - 1 level delay on extra attack can be tolerable, 2 level delay makes you feel it on the damage dealing side (The extra dice for criticals comes up more on RA, but not so much that you will have consistent damage output).
Going 2 first puts you on "attractive target" duty (advantage to hit, a lot more exposed flesh / less tin can).

[Mechaviking]

Barbarian 5/Paladin 4? Then Warlock(or Sorcerer).

[SMac8988]

Barbarian 5/Paladin 4? Then Warlock(or Sorcerer).

Was planning barb 3, Pala 7. The game normally ends at level 10 for the big boss fight at the end. Then maintain that if the game continues

[Mechaviking]

Ahh ofc, paladin 6 is kinda must, nvm :D

[Grod_The_Giant]

Option one is, obviously, fluff alone-- take the Outlander background and a greataxe, and say you were a barbarian before you saw the light (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHV2TddUe1w&t=0m29s). Besides optimization, CoS starts at level 1, from my understanding-- it might be a bit odd if it takes you a couple levels to actually be a paladin.

For option two, I'd say take one Barbarian level to start, then veer into Paladin. That gets you the trademark Rage and Abs of Steel(tm), but doesn't delay your progression too much. After 5-6 levels of Paladin, take another 1-2 of Barbarian if you still feel the need-- but remember, if take more than one level of Barbarian, you don't get third level spells, and Paladins have some excellent third level spells. (Aura of Vitality? Crusader's Mantle? Yes please! Bonus radiant damage for everyone ought to make fighting vampires a bit easier)

[Zman]

Frenzy as is just isn't worth it.

I'd suggest just two levels in Barbarian for Reckless Attack, and pick up Polearm Master for that bonus action attack, or even just Dual Wield so you have three attacks.

Being able to smite with three attacks is great, but you have a finite number of spell slots and they'll run out quick.

[SMac8988]

Option one is, obviously, fluff alone-- take the Outlander background and a greataxe, and say you were a barbarian before you saw the light (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHV2TddUe1w&t=0m29s). Besides optimization, CoS starts at level 1, from my understanding-- it might be a bit odd if it takes you a couple levels to actually be a paladin.

For option two, I'd say take one Barbarian level to start, then veer into Paladin. That gets you the trademark Rage and Abs of Steel(tm), but doesn't delay your progression too much. After 5-6 levels of Paladin, take another 1-2 of Barbarian if you still feel the need-- but remember, if take more than one level of Barbarian, you don't get third level spells, and Paladins have some excellent third level spells. (Aura of Vitality? Crusader's Mantle? Yes please! Bonus radiant damage for everyone ought to make fighting vampires a bit easier)

I'll probably go with the first. If the game was going to go past cos then I would consider it more since it would work out later game. But for just the sake of this story it's to good to not be a pure pali

[SMac8988]

Also would the resistance of bear totem 3 go through. Since you wouldn't get the normal rage resistances but you would get the bear totem in heavy armor

[clash]

Option one is, obviously, fluff alone-- take the Outlander background and a greataxe, and say you were a barbarian before you saw the light (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHV2TddUe1w&t=0m29s). Besides optimization, CoS starts at level 1, from my understanding-- it might be a bit odd if it takes you a couple levels to actually be a paladin.

I would go with this option but if you really want to extra attacks with a greataxe then start with 1 level of war cleric. It will give an early boost to your spellcasting and give you an extra attack wisdom modifier times per day without the drawbacks of frenzy. It is also thematic with the whole "finding the light" thing. It also allows for further multi-classing with cleric after Paladin 5 to really pick up smite slots. Only issue is being MAD but paladin smiting doesnt require cha so you could keep Cha at 13. It depends what types of spells you want to cast outside of that.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Also would the resistance of bear totem 3 go through. Since you wouldn't get the normal rage resistances but you would get the bear totem in heavy armor
Hmm, it actually looks like you're right. And not just in a technical sense; Eagle Totem specifies "not wearing heavy armor," so... yeah.


I would go with this option but if you really want to extra attacks with a greataxe then start with 1 level of war cleric. It will give an early boost to your spellcasting and give you an extra attack wisdom modifier times per day without the drawbacks of frenzy. It is also thematic with the whole "finding the light" thing. It also allows for further multi-classing with cleric after Paladin 5 to really pick up smite slots. Only issue is being MAD but paladin smiting doesnt require cha so you could keep Cha at 13. It depends what types of spells you want to cast outside of that.
It would be good if you were doing Paladin 2/Cleric 8, or if you roll very well for ability scores. I can't really recommend it otherwise, though-- Paladin has too many features that want Charisma.

[SMac8988]

Hmm, it actually looks like you're right. And not just in a technical sense; Eagle Totem specifies "not wearing heavy armor," so... yeah.


It would be good if you were doing Paladin 2/Cleric 8, or if you roll very well for ability scores. I can't really recommend it otherwise, though-- Paladin has too many features that want Charisma.

We did 4d6 drop lowest and reroll 1s. I got very lucky, 17, 17, 16, 14, 12, 10. So I got stats for days. As of now I am half orc, with the 17s in cha and str and the 16 in con. Then wis 14, it 12 and dex 10.

[djreynolds]

Here's the thing. When you rage you effectively double your hit points, you cares if you get hit.
Take the hits, dump the chain mail and get half plate.
And bear totem, does way more than double your hit points.

[SMac8988]

Here's the thing. When you rage you effectively double your hit points, you cares if you get hit.
Take the hits, dump the chain mail and get half plate.
And bear totem, does way more than double your hit points.

I feel paladins belong is full plate though. That's my end goal

[Joe the Rat]

Hmm, it actually looks like you're right. And not just in a technical sense; Eagle Totem specifies "not wearing heavy armor," so... yeah.Huh. So in full plate, you can rage to gain resistance to all energy types save psychic... and that's it. None of the other rage features process.
Is broad-spectrum energy resistance 2/day worth a 3rd level dip away from paladin? Maybe if you're already at 2...

[djreynolds]

Just take heavy armor master. And grab absorb elements from another class.

And now you have your paladin in plate.

The only thing better than HAM is regular rage and stoneskin and some high level class features, but HAM is always on. Regular rage, which is every barbarian other than a bear totem, is like having stoneskin without concentration. Basically the same thing

If you plan to grab bear totem warrior I cannot express how powerful resistance to all forms of damage is like magic weapons and spells, other than mind flayers. It is like having stoneskin, protection from all forms of energy (except physic), and magic weapons do not pierce this resistance as RAW/RAI.

Its all half damage

Plate is AC 18, and half plate with a 14 dex is AC 17

Now imagine your paladin of vengeance in half plate walking past a bunch of goons while the try to kill him, while the paladin calmly makes a beeline for the boss. Dump the plate armor and grab half plate and bear totem barbarian and paladin.

[Arkhios]

If you start as a barbarian you won't get heavy armor proficiency from multiclassing into a paladin, and since this order is key to your build, you'll just have to find a way to make use of medium armor, unless you have enough Dexterity and Constitution to go without any armor. By enough I mean at least con+dex combined bonus of at least +7, preferably 8+.

That said, as a half-orc (+2 str, +1 con), you'd be able to start with decent stats even via point-buy to support the predetermined build:
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 13 (7+7+5+0+3+5=27pts), easily starting with medium armor + shield, for example to get as much as AC 18 (Scale mail AC 14, Dex +2, Shield +2).

With your rolled stats, though, I would suggest following instead:
Str 18 (16), Dex 14, Con 18 (17), Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 17

although... you're only one step behind being able to have Unarmored Defense equal to Plate AC if you don't mind a bit lower Charisma:
Str 18 (16), Dex 17, Con 18 (17), Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14.

Taking Resilient Dexterity you'd be amazingly evasive, and once you get Paladin 6, you get to add your charisma bonus to all saves.

[shuangwucanada]

I am playing a sun elf bladesinger green knight (DM rolled high stats for me) and it is super fun. he has level 2 wizard dip for bladesong, and he is living paladin's high standard but a racist (well, normal in sun elves).

Tons of role playing potential. You don't have to have complicated background (mine is a sage studying ancient martial arts). A sun elf that is a noble bladesinger is a very flexible context yet with great depth to role play.

Don't need very high level to get online. You get bladesong at wizard level 2 and smite/oath at paladin level 3. so at total level 5, you got your major abilities, but every level after that is a big update. You will be fully online at about level 10 (wizard 2/paladin 8, 2 ASI, 10 spell slots per long rest, 40 lay on hands, two important auras)

Don't need many gears to help combat.
- Physical defense he has bladsong+shield, with a potential 12 (studded leather) + Dex + Int + 5 (shield) + 1 (defense fighting style) + 2 (Shield of Faith) as his AC. Mirror image and misty step is also available.
- Magical defense he has +Cha to all saves, passive resistance to spell damage, and absorb element to get breath weapon resistance.
- Offensively he is using high level spell slots to smite all day.
- Have access to wizard utility cantrips, bless, etc.

It is super MAD (I have 17 16 15 13 without race traits), but as long as you can afford it...

[SMac8988]

Since I posted we have added two new party members so I should be ok to just do what feels good. I love to do the 3 level barb dip but I think since we are starting level 1 it wouldn't make much sense.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Since I posted we have added two new party members so I should be ok to just do what feels good. I love to do the 3 level barb dip but I think since we are starting level 1 it wouldn't make much sense.
You can always go back to "get in touch with your roots" later on.

[SMac8988]

You can always go back to "get in touch with your roots" later on.

That is true. Have him accept that he needs his rage to combat the darkness. He is meant to be a devotion paladin but I think it would still work.