Dragonborn Barbarian....Warlock?

[gfishfunk]

I'm looking at putting together a level 5 character for an ongoing campaign. Barbarian 5 + levels of Warlock is probably better than Barbarian 4 / Warlock 1 due to the extra attack feature, but it works for the backstory to already have a level of Warlock, as the patron is the Dragonborn's brood mother (not quite a real Fiend, but that is the flavor). Alternatively, I could go Barbarian 1 / Warlock 4. either way, I would start with Barbarian for the Con save buff at least.

I know that the Barbarian cannot rage and concentrate/cast.

And yes, I truthfully want him to be an unwise idiot. Party make-up: Gunslinger, Ranger (bow), Rogue (bow), Bard, Me. I am the guy that needs to absorb damage and stuff.

Stats with bonuses on point buy:
Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 14

Barbarian: Bear Totem (I thought about the less-than-optimal Frenzy Barbarian).
Warlock: Fiend Pact / Blade Pact

I am not worried about long-term character planning. Most of the games I am in go for about 3-6 levels before we take a break and do something else. We like change.

Playstyle: I plan on screwing with people using Command (pact spell), Hex for damage boost, and Raging every few encounters. I like the versatility of being able to do either.

QUESTIONS:

1. Should I go Barbarian 4 / Warlock 1 or Barbarian 1 / Warlock 4? This is a big factor in my mind: we are unlikely to have more than 3-4 encounters prior to a long rest, based on prior experiences with the GM.

2. Fighting Style (I don't actually get one, but...): should I go 2 weapon fighting (swapping out a 1H weapon to unarmed when needing to cast a spell), sword and board, or 2H mayhem? I am NOT going to get Great Weapon Master.

3. At level 4 I was going to take a feat. Which one should I choose?
-I do not want Great Weapon Master.
-I was thinking about 2 weapon fighting. Absent Great Weapon Master, 2 Weapon Fighting has a better damage output than lugging a 2-H sword.
-Then again, if I am going Warlock, it would make sense to do something that left a hand optionally free for casting.
-Toughness wouldn't be too bad either, especially with 4 levels of Warlock reducing my over HP.

Note: I do NOT want to go Pally + Barb.

[CursedRhubarb]

What warlock pact are you planning on going? That could lean you one way or another for feats and the like.
From what you have so far I'd recommend War Caster for your feat. This gives advantage on concentration saves, which being the melee guy likely means you'll be making a lot of those, as well as let's you use a spell for any AoO you get. Ranged spells will be rough for you since melee range enemies make you roll with disadvantage (crossbow expert feat can fix that if you want to go toss a second ASI) but there are some good save spells and the SCAG melee can trips are great if you can use them.

[JellyPooga]

I would go Barbarian 1/Warlock 4.

Being able to spring Armour of Agathys from a lvl.2 slot, then wade in Raging seems better than the alternative to me.

[uraniumrooster]

I wouldn't worry too much about getting your first ASI/feat by level 5. With Rage damage and reckless attack, Barbs can do quite well with a 16 in their attack stat longer than other martials, and the goodies you get from class features are stronger than any potential feats you could pick up. I would aim for Bear-barian 3/Warlock 2 starting out, then continue with Warlock until you can get the Thirsting Blade invocation.

Barb 3/Lock 2 gets you:
3 Rages, Reckless Attack, Bear Totem Resistance
Dark One's Blessing, 3 Spells, 2 Slots, 2 Invocations

Use your Rage w/ resistance to basically all damage, paired up with Armor of Agathys/Dark One's Blessing for lots of temp HPs. Thanks to that Resistance/THP combo, you don't mind getting hit (and, when Armor of Agathys is still up, you actually want to get hit to hurt your enemies), so you can feel free to attack recklessly every turn. Always attacking at advantage means you hit your enemies more often, hopefully kill lots of baddies, and refresh your THPs with Dark One's Blessing.

In small encounters when you don't really need to Rage, then you can stick with your plan to use Command, Hex, etc.

I would probably Dual Wield Handaxes or Scimitars so you can get in two reckless attacks on each of your turns in combat after the first (assuming you will pretty much always use your Bonus Action on the first turn to either Rage or cast Hex). You won't get your Str bonus on the off-hand attack, but both attacks still benefit from Rage/Hex damage, so you should come out ahead compared to one attack with a Greatsword.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

The big bummer about a barbarian/warlock multi is rage makes concentration impossible. Lots of warlock spells like Hex require concentration. There are better melee builds for a warlock to multi with (like paladin) then barbarian which will run counter to something you need to do, i.e. concentration.

[Mandragola]

Barbarian 1, warlock 4 and pact of the blade. Armour of Agathys isn't concentration, so it's pretty good. And blade pact for two attacks at the next level.

If you're absolutely dead set against gwm, then PAM would be awesome for a barbarian/cleric. I'd start with it at lvl 1 as a variant human, if I was building my own character. Or consider one of the fears that gives +1 to strength and take that at 4th, but start with 17, so you aren't behind the curve.

[gfishfunk]

I would go Barbarian 1/Warlock 4.

Being able to spring Armour of Agathys from a lvl.2 slot, then wade in Raging seems better than the alternative to me.

I'm playing with this build right now, and it looks pretty nasty. Lots of spellcasting, occasional raging. I selected no damaging spells (except Hex as a ranged alternative when I literally have nothing to do).

Armor of Agthys and Mirror Image are great non-concentration spells good during raging. Misty Step is a good bonus action to close distance.

Here is what I have for a Barb 1 / Warlock 4 build:

Redid Stats
Str: 16 (+2 r)
Dex: 14
Con: 16 (+1 feat)
Wis: 9
Int: 8
Cha: 13 (+1 r)

Fiend Pact / Blade Pact
Scale Mail for 16 AC, Pact Maul OR Pact Handaxe + Handaxe (either one, I have options in-game)
Warlock 4 ASI: Durable (+1 Con / hit die min = 6)
Invocations: Devil Sight / Eldritch Sight (Detect Magic at will)

Pact Spells: Command / Burning Hands / Blindness-Deafness / Scorching Ray
Learned Spells: Hex / Armor of Agathys / Darkness / Mirror Image / Misty Step
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast / Presetidigitation / Mage Hand?
-- I specifically chose spells that could still be effective with a low Charisma modifier.

Barbarian Rages (2 per long rest / +2 Melee Damage)



I wouldn't worry too much about getting your first ASI/feat by level 5. With Rage damage and reckless attack, Barbs can do quite well with a 16 in their attack stat longer than other martials, and the goodies you get from class features are stronger than any potential feats you could pick up. I would aim for Bear-barian 3/Warlock 2 starting out, then continue with Warlock until you can get the Thirsting Blade invocation.

Barb 3/Lock 2 gets you:
3 Rages, Reckless Attack, Bear Totem Resistance
Dark One's Blessing, 3 Spells, 2 Slots, 2 Invocations

Use your Rage w/ resistance to basically all damage, paired up with Armor of Agathys/Dark One's Blessing for lots of temp HPs. Thanks to that Resistance/THP combo, you don't mind getting hit (and, when Armor of Agathys is still up, you actually want to get hit to hurt your enemies), so you can feel free to attack recklessly every turn. Always attacking at advantage means you hit your enemies more often, hopefully kill lots of baddies, and refresh your THPs with Dark One's Blessing.

In small encounters when you don't really need to Rage, then you can stick with your plan to use Command, Hex, etc.

I would probably Dual Wield Handaxes or Scimitars so you can get in two reckless attacks on each of your turns in combat after the first (assuming you will pretty much always use your Bonus Action on the first turn to either Rage or cast Hex). You won't get your Str bonus on the off-hand attack, but both attacks still benefit from Rage/Hex damage, so you should come out ahead compared to one attack with a Greatsword.

I really appreciate this feedback. I had not considered anything other than a 4/1 split. I'm going to do a couple of mock-ups with the 3/2 split and see what kind of stuff I can come up with.

[JellyPooga]

I really appreciate this feedback. I had not considered anything other than a 4/1 split. I'm going to do a couple of mock-ups with the 3/2 split and see what kind of stuff I can come up with.

Barbarian 2/Warlock 3 seems more favourable to me. 2nd level spell slots is already 1 lvl behind the curve, so chucking 1st level spells is waay behind par. You want that 2nd level spellslinging if you're going to bother at all.

3rd level Barbarian gets you...not a great deal. You're already Resisting most damage from regular Rage, Bear Totem is nice and all, but hardly a must-have. You'll get an extra Rage per day, which is probably your biggest bonus from going Barbarian 3.

3rd level Warlock, on the other hand gets you 2nd level spells, your Blade Boon and a 4th spell known.

I know which I'd go for.

[gfishfunk]

Barbarian 2/Warlock 3 seems more favourable to me. 2nd level spell slots is already 1 lvl behind the curve, so chucking 1st level spells is waay behind par. You want that 2nd level spellslinging if you're going to bother at all.

3rd level Barbarian gets you...not a great deal. You're already Resisting most damage from regular Rage, Bear Totem is nice and all, but hardly a must-have. You'll get an extra Rage per day, which is probably your biggest bonus from going Barbarian 3.

3rd level Warlock, on the other hand gets you 2nd level spells, your Blade Boon and a 4th spell known.

I know which I'd go for.

True. I'll play around with both. I'm not sure which is better for my specific circumstances yet - it really depends on how much other damage types my DM is going to throw at me.

[JellyPooga]

it really depends on how much other damage types my DM is going to throw at me.

Very true. 5th level is around the time that you're going to start seeing some of the more exotic damage type being thrown around. Spellcasting is sufficiently varied and commonplace at that level that having Resistance to more than just weapon damage is a viable concern.

[Mandragola]

I'd still prioritise warlock 5. So start barb 1,near lock 4, add a level of lock, and then get your second barbarian level.

Nothing is better than your second attack and 3rd level spells. Don't delay it for a second.

[JellyPooga]

I'd still prioritise warlock 5. So start barb 1,near lock 4, add a level of lock, and then get your second barbarian level.

Nothing is better than your second attack and 3rd level spells. Don't delay it for a second.

This argument is a slippery slope, though. Every other level of Warlock gets you that next precious spell level and it's hard not to try and keep up. At that point, you might as well leave the Barbarian out altogether and just go straight Bladelock.

I can see a case for starting as a 3/2 as opposed to a 4/1 and there are definite merits for each iteration of either.

[gfishfunk]

I'd still prioritise warlock 5. So start barb 1,near lock 4, add a level of lock, and then get your second barbarian level.

Nothing is better than your second attack and 3rd level spells. Don't delay it for a second.

This is what I am settling on after toying with it all day: Barbarian 1, Warlock 4. Then 1 into Warlock and then level into Barbarian for the foreseeable future (probably until end of campaign).

I'm also doing Polearm Master with a Pact Glaive. Level 5 also gives an additional invocation, so I can keep an early invocation, update 1 invocation to a level 5 prereq. invocation, and grab Thirsting Blade.

I can also update a spell to level 3 and grab a new level 3 spell -- but I am pretty sure this is where I will plateau for Warlock as I build up Barbarian levels. I know 4th level spells are great - I just don't see any that fit into my perception of the character. If the campaign lasts that long, I will hit Barbarian level 5 and then switch back to Warlock level 6 - and then change the Thirsting Blade invocation away after it becomes redundant.

[uraniumrooster]

Pact Spells: Command / Burning Hands / Blindness-Deafness / Scorching Ray
Learned Spells: Hex / Armor of Agathys / Darkness / Mirror Image / Misty Step
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast / Presetidigitation / Mage Hand?
-- I specifically chose spells that could still be effective with a low Charisma modifier.

Just a note, Pact Spells aren't automatically learned in the same way Cleric's Domain Spells are automatically prepared. They're essentially just added to Warlock spell list as options you can select when choosing your spells. Not sure if that was your intent or not, just wanted to clarify.


This is what I am settling on after toying with it all day: Barbarian 1, Warlock 4. Then 1 into Warlock and then level into Barbarian for the foreseeable future (probably until end of campaign).

I'm also doing Polearm Master with a Pact Glaive. Level 5 also gives an additional invocation, so I can keep an early invocation, update 1 invocation to a level 5 prereq. invocation, and grab Thirsting Blade.

I can also update a spell to level 3 and grab a new level 3 spell -- but I am pretty sure this is where I will plateau for Warlock as I build up Barbarian levels. I know 4th level spells are great - I just don't see any that fit into my perception of the character. If the campaign lasts that long, I will hit Barbarian level 5 and then switch back to Warlock level 6 - and then change the Thirsting Blade invocation away after it becomes redundant.

This looks like a good plan. Once you hit Barb 3/Lock 5, I'd probably switch back to Lock for the rest of your leveling though, if you go that far.

Going up to Barb 5 gets you an ASI and fast movement, and allows you to switch out Thirsting Blade, but taking those 2 levels as Warlock instead gets you another invocation anyway, and higher level slots. Even if you don't care to cast any of the 4th level Warlock spells, just getting Armor of Agathys at 4th level is huge, and more Warlock levels also improves your THP generation from Dark One's Blessing for when AoA goes down. Also, Fiend Patron allows you access to Fire Shield, which is a non-concentration 4th level spell that doesn't rely on your casting stat at all. It's pretty much perfect for this build - combined with Armor of Agathys, you would deal 2d8+20 damage every time an enemy hits you, which is just lovely, especially considering you also have loads of THPs and only take half damage.

You can reckless attack all day... your enemies are welcome to have advantage on their counterattacks :smallamused:

[gfishfunk]

Ah! I missed it, and read the spells like the druid spell list.

[gfishfunk]

Jiyeer Brood of Doorn:

Stats:
Str: 16 (+2 r)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Wis: 9
Int: 8
Cha: 14 (+1 r)

Dragonborn, Red Ancestry. 15' cone fire breath, fire resistance.
Background: Outlander(-ish), the PC was previously a part of a rampaging dragon-minion horde and still maintains the ideology.
Skills: Intimidation, Athletics, Animal Handling, Survival

Fiend Pact / Blade Pact = Glaive
Scale Mail for 16 AC
Invocations: Devil Sight / Eldritch Sight (Detect Magic at will)

Lvl 4 ASI: Polearm Master

Spells: Hex / Armor of Agathys / Darkness / Mirror Image / Misty Step
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast / Presetidigitation / Mage Hand
-- I specifically chose spells that could still be effective with a low Charisma modifier.

Barbarian Rages (2 per long rest / +2 Melee Damage)

This is the end product. I played this character last night in a short online session (only about 2 hours).

The character worked really well. The PC got involved in a boxing match, and ended up doing pretty good unarmed damage during a rage (5 damage per hit, with some fluff to get more damage here and there). The spells would have been icing on the cake, and the set-up for this specific 1 v. 1 battle made both magic and Pact weapons less desirable.

The plus side: this build definitely gave me options, and i like options over optimization. It also gave me