Questions about Fusion + Astral Seed

[flappeercraft]

So recently I found out about the psionic power fusion just in the middle of making a build and it got me thinking. Could I use enlarge person and then use a fusion dorje with a chronotyrin, then dismiss the effect of reduce person and use the dorje again but with a gloom and then use astral seed, kill myself and then after rebuild the body?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Yes, you can. I don't think you stop being Large, though. The fused being is Large, separate from yourself and your target.

Chronotryn are magical beasts, and glooms are monstrous humanoids. You need polymorph to fuse with both, because you can only manifest fusion on creatures of your type. Getting the right set of abilities through repeated iterations of polymorph, alter self, fusion and astral seed can take some planning.

[flappeercraft]

Yes, you can. I don't think you stop being Large, though. The fused being is Large, separate from yourself and your target.

Chronotryn are magical beasts, and glooms are monstrous humanoids. You need polymorph to fuse with both, because you can only manifest fusion on creatures of your type. Getting the right set of abilities through repeated iterations of polymorph, alter self, fusion and astral seed can take some planning.

Could I use shapechange and use that to fuse with both?

[MisterKaws]

You should also probably try to brainwash the creatures to avoid the problems that usually come when you have a voice screaming in your head 24/7.

[flappeercraft]

You should also probably try to brainwash the creatures to avoid the problems that usually come when you have a voice screaming in your head 24/7.

Well I will brainwash them into fusing with me and then when the fusion ends it doesnt matter because all I would keep would be the body itself and its abilities not the other creatures consciousness.

[MisterKaws]

Well I will brainwash them into fusing with me and then when the fusion ends it doesnt matter because all I would keep would be the body itself and its abilities not the other creatures consciousness.

The brain is still part of your body, so your DM might strongly disagree.

[ben-zayb]

Yes, you can. I don't think you stop being Large, though. The fused being is Large, separate from yourself and your target.

Chronotryn are magical beasts, and glooms are monstrous humanoids. You need polymorph to fuse with both, because you can only manifest fusion on creatures of your type. Getting the right set of abilities through repeated iterations of polymorph, alter self, fusion and astral seed can take some planning.

Or, you know, do something easy like get access to Aberrate

[flappeercraft]

The brain is still part of your body, so your DM might strongly disagree.

Yeah but souls from other creatures are not a part of your body. So theybwould probably go back to theur bodies after the original fusion ends

[icefractal]

Yeah but souls from other creatures are not a part of your body. So theybwould probably go back to theur bodies after the original fusion endsI don't think they would.

There are three ways to interpret "an exact duplicate of your body at the time you manifested astral seed" in Astral Seed.
1) External effects don't count. If you manifested it while under Expansion, the new you would still be medium-sized.
2) External effects carry over, but so do their durations. If you manifested it while under expansion, the new you would be huge ... for a few minutes, then back to medium.
3) External effects become part of your inherent form. If you manifested it while under Expansion, you are now huge forever.

Hardly anyone rules it as #3, because that's broken as hell. It allows you to turn any temporary buff into a permanent inherent part of your stats, like Persistent Spell on steroids.

So how does Fusion get around that? Because it's not "you" who's casting Astral Seed, it's "the fused creature". And the fused creature has no form other than the combined body, so if Astral Seed works at all then it would grow into that. But that means the fused form is technically not you, it's a new creature with a merged mind. The personality formerly known as "you" is in charge, but the other minds are in there as well.

Technically speaking, that means the new creature is an NPC, and the GM is under no obligation to let you play as them. :smalltongue: But if they do, then the melded mind seems like part of the package.

[flappeercraft]

I don't think they would.

There are three ways to interpret "an exact duplicate of your body at the time you manifested astral seed" in Astral Seed.
1) External effects don't count. If you manifested it while under Expansion, the new you would still be medium-sized.
2) External effects carry over, but so do their durations. If you manifested it while under expansion, the new you would be huge ... for a few minutes, then back to medium.
3) External effects become part of your inherent form. If you manifested it while under Expansion, you are now huge forever.

Hardly anyone rules it as #3, because that's broken as hell. It allows you to turn any temporary buff into a permanent inherent part of your stats, like Persistent Spell on steroids.

So how does Fusion get around that? Because it's not "you" who's casting Astral Seed, it's "the fused creature". And the fused creature has no form other than the combined body, so if Astral Seed works at all then it would grow into that. But that means the fused form is technically not you, it's a new creature with a merged mind. The personality formerly known as "you" is in charge, but the other minds are in there as well.

Technically speaking, that means the new creature is an NPC, and the GM is under no obligation to let you play as them. :smalltongue: But if they do, then the melded mind seems like part of the package.

Ok then I can just Wish them away, cast a permanent domination effect spell like monstrous thrall or just deal with it

[icefractal]

If you're already using 9th level stuff, you can toss in Mindrape / Programmed Amnesia and change their personality so they think you're the greatest and are honored to share a body with you.

[flappeercraft]

If you're already using 9th level stuff, you can toss in Mindrape / Programmed Amnesia and change their personality so they think you're the greatest and are honored to share a body with you.

I think Ill go with completely erasing their memories and making them forget they are aware, living beings, have a consciousness and how to communicate.