beguiler thrower

[Alteisen Reise]

how well does the beguiler do throwing weapons. I would like to build an illusion based mage that is good at throwing weapons. my only problem is i don't see a very easy way to fit in master thrower into the beguiler path and normal rogues can only sub in for half casting as far as i am aware.

[gadren]

how well does the beguiler do throwing weapons. I would like to build an illusion based mage that is good at throwing weapons. my only problem is i don't see a very easy way to fit in master thrower into the beguiler path and normal rogues can only sub in for half casting as far as i am aware.

It's pretty bad at it. Poor Bab, dex is your secondary ability score at best, and you're likely to have a strength penalty which will translate to a penalty to damage rolls. Pus, throwing weapons tend to not scale well in general, and you'll need to invest in the point-blank shot and precise shot feats to be even competent as a ranged character, and those feats would REALLY be better spent on other things.

EDIT: If you really want to do it, I'd recommend going for unseen seer and using practiced spellcaster feat to offset the caster level penalty to non-divination spells, pick up the craven feat, and go for a ranged sneak attack build that synergizes with invisibility and your other beguiler spells.

[Alteisen Reise]

yea i kinda figured as much. was kinda hoping someone here might know of a way or of a class/feature that would do something similiar.

[MisterKaws]

You'd be better with either a Stalwart Battle Sorcerer or, if your DM accepts mid-high OP, Duskblade 1/Bard 4/Spellblade 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Eldritch Knight 1/Bard +1/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion +3/Eldritch Knight +6.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Gadren covered it, pretty much. Throwing is not an illusionist's game. You may be able to brute force something, for example by going Incantatrix, getting a bunch of off-list spells (playing an illusionist wizard may be easier), and using Persistent divine power, polymorph and bite of the were-[animal] to obtain high base attack and strength score. It's a cheesy cheesy way to become good at anything, and doesn't really have anything to do with throwing specifically, but it does work. Your feats would be Brutal Throw, Power Throw, and Rapid Shot. Maybe there is a ranged equivalent of wraithstrike, that would go well with Power Throw.

[Alteisen Reise]

thanks for confirming guys, maybe someday ill find it. i could try home-brewing it. you guys got any ideas for that?

[gadren]

thanks for confirming guys, maybe someday ill find it. i could try home-brewing it. you guys got any ideas for that?

Well, I mean, what is the flavor you're going for? Throwing weapons doesn't really seem to go with beguiler unless you're talking about throwing sneak attacks while invisible, and I already outlined the basics of how to do that.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I'd look at using shadow conjuration to create temporary throwing weapons, which are then delivered with Shadow Hand strikes, along with teleporation-based shadow movement. Something like a swordsage/cleric PrC, inspired by Bloodstorm Blade, Jade Phoenix Mage, Shadowcraft Mage and Telflammar Shadowlord. Swordsage/beguiler is a better fit, just make sure to add a class feature to switch the AC bonus to intelligence. It's annoying when the best entry requires MAD.

[Yael]

You'd be better with either a Stalwart Battle Sorcerer or...

When that combination shows up you are sure to know that your idea won't work at all.

[AnachroNinja]

I recently had a lot of fun with a Dragonwrought loredrake Kobold using the extra spell casting levels from that and greater Draconic rite of passage to cover the lost casting levels to do sorcerer/rogue/unseen seer/master thrower. I used gloves of endless javelins and a ring if blinking to get my sneak attack going. It took some cheese to get a moderately optimized version of what's normally a tough concept.

[Alteisen Reise]

sorry i didn't see the edit. ill look into the shadow conjuration shtick. that seems to be the closest to what i wanna do with a beguiler thrower anyway. thank you you wonderful people.

[Zaq]

It's losing a CL, but maybe dip a level of Warlock and fluff your Eldritch Blast as an inexhaustible supply of enchanted daggers? Nearly everyone can benefit from an invocation or two (Beguiling Influence if your social skills aren't already crazy enough, Devil's Sight to deal with the darkness you might like to create, Leaps and Bounds if you want to get a quick and dirty boost on mobility skills, All-Seeing Eyes or See the Unseen to make sure that other people are less good at hiding than you are, Entropic Warding to make yourself harder to track, etc.), and the fact that it's a touch attack makes your low BAB less of a liability. The damage is ONLY going to be 1d6 unless/until you pick up a source of Sneak Attack, but that means that a STR penalty isn't a penalty, and you're unlikely to be doing too many full attacks for a while anyway.

The downside, of course, is that you do lose a CL, which really sucks, and you also have a level of crappy skills, which can definitely hurt a Beguiler. But if you're just looking for a backup ranged option to augment your Beguilerness, it might be easier than trying to actually get good at using physical thrown weapons. Remember, you can fluff things however you want (unless your GM is a total wet blanket), so there's nothing saying that EB has to look like a laser beam instead of, say, a magical-looking thrown weapon. Just say that you're good at conjuring short-lived weapons—you're already a magical character, so that isn't much of a stretch.

[nedz]

You could go with something like my Shadow Wrestler build - but this one throws the opponents around.

Swordsage 1 / Beguiler 6 / Swordsage +1 / Unseen Seer 1 / Beguiler +1 /
Followed by more levels of Beguiler or Unseen Seer with the occasional Swordsage dip.

Stats something like: (Elite Array assumed)
Str 15 Dex 13 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 8

You should favour Shadow Hand Stances: Child of Shadows at 1st and Assassin's stance at 8th. Unseen Seer 1 opens up a 4th level spell at Beguiler 7 (Advanced Learning)
Mighty Throw and Charging Minotaur are solid 1st level manoeuvres which allow you to do the wrestling Throwing People thing. These are upgradable through more Swordsage levels or Martial Study later.
You should have plenty of Strikes to trigger sneak with Power Attack and use your spells mainly for utility or for counters (Distract Assailant / Stay the Hand etc.) as well as miss chance (in lieu of AC)
The high strength plays against type, but works with the Setting Sun and Stone Dragon tricks - you want more than 15 really.
Shadow Trickster is a good feat for this build.

You have lots of skill points so this is a different take on rogue.

A Warblade dip can work, though JPM doesn't really fit the concept.

[Alteisen Reise]

thank you for the suggestions. ill look into those as well