How important is AC for a spellcaster? + Multiclass optimization

[Draco4472]

I was building a sorcerer for a campaign my group and I will be starting next week, and I was thinking of playing a sorcerer. My current ability scores were chosen via the point-buy system and my race is Dragonborn

Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 16

My question is whether I should dump my Wis and Int to increase my Dex, thus increasing my armor class. I feel unsure of this but dislike the idea of playing a character both oblivious and dumb. But I also don't want to be in a situation where I get hit so many times that I go down before I can help the party in combat, being a liability.
What does the Playground think?

[Gignere]

Yes in fact you should dump Str to 8 and int to 10, if you don't mind playing an idiot dump it to 8 put the points in dex and con.

[Wondermndjr]

Yes in fact you should dump Str to 8 and int to 10, if you don't mind playing an idiot dump it to 8 put the points in dex and con.

As a dragonborn you can't dump Str to 8, since you get the +2 to str.

I'd drop Int to 10 and Dex to 13 (so that you can multiclass into fighter or rogue). On the other hand, like Gignere said, 8 Int will let you get 14 Dex, which would give you a decent AC at the cost of Int. Don't dump Wis though, that's important against nasty mind effects. However, I like the idea of a character who has all strong mental stats, but sort of weak physical stats. Honestly a difference of +2 AC shouldn't matter too much if you play smart, so just go with what feels right to you.

[MrStabby]

Not taking damage is important for a caster. This may be due to working at range or high AC.

If needed you can probably be healed but you will start failing a lot of concentration saves if you get hit a lot.

A wizard doesn't need so much - shield and keeping out of combat does a lot. A cleric on the other hand is more likely to get stuck in and risk losing some critical concentration spells.

[Gignere]

As a dragonborn you can't dump Str to 8, since you get the +2 to str.

I'd drop Int to 10 and Dex to 13 (so that you can multiclass into fighter or rogue). On the other hand, like Gignere said, 8 Int will let you get 14 Dex, which would give you a decent AC at the cost of Int. Don't dump Wis though, that's important against nasty mind effects. However, I like the idea of a character who has all strong mental stats, but sort of weak physical stats. Honestly a difference of +2 AC shouldn't matter too much if you play smart, so just go with what feels right to you.

Positioning is very important for a caster probably more so than AC. If you are good at positioning exploiting cover abusing illusions you don't really need AC.

I play a wizard and 5 game sessions in I have lost 0 hps.

[Draco4472]

Positioning is very important for a caster probably more so than AC. If you are good at positioning exploiting cover abusing illusions you don't really need AC.

I play a wizard and 5 game sessions in I have lost 0 hps.

I'll try to keep that in mind. At least I won't be on the front lines as the rest of the party will consist of a Fighter, a Barbarian, a Valor Bard and maybe a Cleric (of a domain yet chosen). So, plenty of support. In addition I can use the 'Tempestuous Magic' feature storm sorcerers get to hit-and-run with my spells.

[Draco4472]

Is it worth dipping into warlock or rogue to get light armor? I considered making my character a rogue/sorcerer originally, as I'm trying to make a pirate-esc character as part of the campaign will be related to seafaring, but later dismissed the idea. Thoughts?

[Specter]

Is it worth dipping into warlock or rogue to get light armor? I considered making my character a rogue/sorcerer originally, as I'm trying to make a pirate-esc character as part of the campaign will be related to seafaring, but later dismissed the idea. Thoughts?

If you're dipping anything for AC, it should be fighter. That'll get you breastplate, shield and +1AC for defense fighting style. In total, 4AC more than with Mage Armor, which was better than light armor anyway.

[MrStabby]

If you're dipping anything for AC, it should be fighter. That'll get you breastplate, shield and +1AC for defense fighting style. In total, 4AC more than with Mage Armor, which was better than light armor anyway.

For the seafaring aspect a 1 level dip as a cleric of Umberlee (tempest) might be better. You get the armour proficiency you want but without losing anything in spell slot progression.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

For the seafaring aspect a 1 level dip as a cleric of Umberlee (tempest) might be better. You get the armour proficiency you want but without losing anything in spell slot progression.

I would dip Cleric 2 or 3 in this case, Sorcerers do really really well with spells from other lists.

Domain features and the ability to Quicken or Subtle Spell (Silence) can help you get a fight started properly along with a host of other things.

Sorcerer/Cleric is nasty.

[imneuromancer]

Positioning is very important for a caster probably more so than AC. If you are good at positioning exploiting cover abusing illusions you don't really need AC.

I play a wizard and 5 game sessions in I have lost 0 hps.

If you are doing your job right as a wizard, most of your HP loss will be because of area of affect attacks or save-or-damage/suck attacks, neither of which rely on AC.

In the days of yore (3.5e) before concentration spells, I had a wizard that would sometimes just run into combats specifically to take attacks of opportunities so that the fighters and rogues could move into position without taking damage. It was then easier/cheaper to patch me up out of combat (lesser vigor in those days, hit dice or long rests nowadays) than to have people who need to conserve hit points taking unnecessary damage.

That said, having a way to escape damage via misty step/dimension door is a good idea. The Shield spell is also pretty nice. IMHO pumping your AC is not as important as taking utility spells that can get you out of danger -- and have other uses as well.

[Vogonjeltz]

My question is whether I should dump my Wis and Int to increase my Dex, thus increasing my armor class. I feel unsure of this but dislike the idea of playing a character both oblivious and dumb. But I also don't want to be in a situation where I get hit so many times that I go down before I can help the party in combat, being a liability.
What does the Playground think?

10-11 is human average, 8 is only slightly below average. So I wouldn't worry about how you situate the stats, you're not going to be oblivious or dumb.

If you don't want to get hit, try being in the middle of the marching order. That way there's usually a target in front of you or behind you who is more likely to get attacked first.

AC can be useful, but I would not consider doing something like delaying your spell progression for it, then you're being worse at your primary reason for existing in order to be slightly harder to hit without expending a spell slot for mage armor.

[Draco4472]

If you're dipping anything for AC, it should be fighter. That'll get you breastplate, shield and +1AC for defense fighting style. In total, 4AC more than with Mage Armor, which was better than light armor anyway.

I was looking for a way to take advantage of my high Cha as a sorcerer. Warlock works well with it by sharing the spellcasting ability, and the swashbuckler archetype in the SCAG uses Cha very well for a focus on melee combat. The latter would allow me to use booming blade and then use their 'Fancy Footwork' feature to move away without using my bonus action, thus leaving me with the ability to quicken or do something else with cunning action.

I believe Booming Blade counts as a melee weapon attack for purposes of this feature as it states "As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails."

In addition, I would prefer light armor, as medium would weigh my character down were we to fall into a large body of water. It's a campaign that will have a significant part of it in the sea, and my character being experience with sailing having a life of piracy behind him, I have no reason roleplaying wise to wear 45 pound armor. Were I to build a character focused only on the logistics of class features and abilities, I probably would wear medium armor. Unfortunatly, I'd rather not drown before I get 'Water walk' or 'Water breathing'. If medium armor is what I'm stuck with as a choice to boost my AC however, so be it. Fighter is an option I'll look into, another way to better use 'Booming Blade'.

[Dalebert]

I believe Booming Blade counts as a melee weapon attack for purposes of this feature as it states "As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails."

Sure, it counts for that because that says nothing about being dependent on the attack action which is a more specific thing. Some abilities require the attack action like an off-hand attack as a bonus action. So you could move away as a swashbuckler without provoking after BB but you couldn't make an off-hand attack.

[Draco4472]

10-11 is human average, 8 is only slightly below average. So I wouldn't worry about how you situate the stats, you're not going to be oblivious or dumb.

If you don't want to get hit, try being in the middle of the marching order. That way there's usually a target in front of you or behind you who is more likely to get attacked first.

AC can be useful, but I would not consider doing something like delaying your spell progression for it, then you're being worse at your primary reason for existing in order to be slightly harder to hit without expending a spell slot for mage armor.

It doesn't fit my character's backstory to be less then average mentally, and I fell unsure of playing a character that supposedly did these things but has less then average Int and Wis. 10-11 is something I'm fine with, but lower then that not so much.

Also, fireball makes a marching order irrelevant.

As for AC, I would hope I could readjust my stats for it rather then delay my spell progression, but nor do I want to be a glass cannon in combat. Rather, a less fragile cannon that hits just as hard. Perhaps a cannon of some less then sturdy wood?

In anycase, I don't want to be a detriment to the rest of the party by getting hit easily before I can do anything. It's happened to me before with spellcasters with a higher AC then what I would be getting with the stats I've provided in the original post. First time I played a wizard in 5e, I took a heavy crossbow bolt and went down on the first turn of combat. I don't want that to happen again.

But thank you for the suggestion nonetheless.

[Draco4472]

Sure, it counts for that because that says nothing about being dependent on the attack action which is a more specific thing. Some abilities require the attack action like an off-hand attack as a bonus action. So you could move away as a swashbuckler without provoking after BB but you couldn't make an off-hand attack.

I assumed as much about the off-hand attack, but I would need a hand free anyway to cast my spells. Good to know I can use booming blade like that, and while we're on the topic, can Sneak Attack be added to booming blade damage? If so, I can take advantage of the Swashbuckler's 'Rakish Audacity feature.

So far, Swashbuckler Rogue/Storm Sorcerer is looking better and better.

[Demonic Spoon]

It's worth noting that we're talking about relatively small changes in probability here - having one or two less AC may be less optimal, but it's not going to sink you or make you a party liability. How well you use your class features is going to make a far bigger impact than a point of AC or two.

That said, there are a couple of ways to squeeze a little more survivability out of the character concept while still keeping your INT/WIS scores intact. Drop CON to 13 and use the 3 saved points to bring DEX to 13. Then, at level 4, you can put the ASI in DEX/CON and be at 14/14.

Alternatively, drop CHA by 1 and INT by 1 and get 13 DEX, and then ASI at 4 to get 14 DEX 16 CON.

You lose out a little bit on charisma, but gain a fair bit on initiative, survivability, and AC.

[Draco4472]

I would dip Cleric 2 or 3 in this case, Sorcerers do really really well with spells from other lists.

Domain features and the ability to Quicken or Subtle Spell (Silence) can help you get a fight started properly along with a host of other things.

Sorcerer/Cleric is nasty.

Nasty indeed. Tempest domain would fit well with my character concept, and their Channel Divinity feature would be awesome once I get access to 'Lightning Bolt' as a sorcerer. The heavy armor proficiency would also allow me to use 'Booming Blade' and 'Lightning Whip' without fear of instantly getting smashed. Unfortunately, I'm currently opposed to using heavy armor, as it would mean drowning in water until I get 'Water Walk' or 'Water Breathing' as a sorcerer. The campaign will have a large part of it focused on the sea and sailing, hence my new fear of the DM going to screw over Heavy armor users at one point, as a lot of the party seem to be going to down that route, with a fighter, Valor Bard, and cleric that could be going tempest himself.

[Draco4472]

It's worth noting that we're talking about relatively small changes in probability here - having one or two less AC may be less optimal, but it's not going to sink you or make you a party liability. How well you use your class features is going to make a far bigger impact than a point of AC or two.

That said, there are a couple of ways to squeeze a little more survivability out of the character concept while still keeping your INT/WIS scores intact. Drop CON to 13 and use the 3 saved points to bring DEX to 13. Then, at level 4, you can put the ASI in DEX/CON and be at 14/14.

Alternatively, drop CHA by 1 and INT by 1 and get 13 DEX, and then ASI at 4 to get 14 DEX 16 CON.

You lose out a little bit on charisma, but gain a fair bit on initiative, survivability, and AC.

Interesting thoughts. I might try this while bringing my Int and Wis to 10-11 to get a higher Dex. and from there start as a rogue then take some sorcerer levels. Swashbuckler Rogue/Storm Sorcerer is starting to look appealing, and fits my Pirate theme.

[Mandragola]

There's no point at all in a dragon sorceror (if that's what you are) dipping anything for armour. You come with +3 AC but that goes away when you put armour on. Light armour makes your AC worse. Heavy armour requires strength, so you might as well get dex instead.

There's kind of no reason that a sorceror should be intelligent or wise. Brains are for wizards - who earned their magical skills through study. The only stats a sorceror really needs are charisma, constitution and dex - in that order.

[Draco4472]

There's no point at all in a dragon sorceror (if that's what you are) dipping anything for armour. You come with +3 AC but that goes away when you put armour on. Light armour makes your AC worse. Heavy armour requires strength, so you might as well get dex instead.

There's kind of no reason that a sorceror should be intelligent or wise. Brains are for wizards - who earned their magical skills through study. The only stats a sorceror really needs are charisma, constitution and dex - in that order.

As I said above, I plan on taking storm sorcerer from the SCAG. As for my stats, I dislike the idea of a dumb and oblivious character. Thanks for the input though.

[Tanarii]

My question is whether I should dump my Wis and Int to increase my Dex, thus increasing my armor class. I feel unsure of this but dislike the idea of playing a character both oblivious and dumb.An 8 score is only 5% less awareness, memory retention, and deductive reasoning power than the human average. How "oblivious & dumb" that really makes your character is up to you. (Edit: outside of the mechanical results on checks, I mean.) Right now your character is more intelligent and wise than the average person, but only by 5%.

[Citan]

I was building a sorcerer for a campaign my group and I will be starting next week, and I was thinking of playing a sorcerer. My current ability scores were chosen via the point-buy system and my race is Dragonborn

Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 16

My question is whether I should dump my Wis and Int to increase my Dex, thus increasing my armor class. I feel unsure of this but dislike the idea of playing a character both oblivious and dumb. But I also don't want to be in a situation where I get hit so many times that I go down before I can help the party in combat, being a liability.
What does the Playground think?
Hi OP! On the general question I agree with the post just below.

Positioning is very important for a caster probably more so than AC. If you are good at positioning exploiting cover abusing illusions you don't really need AC.

I play a wizard and 5 game sessions in I have lost 0 hps.

As for your second question...

Is it worth dipping into warlock or rogue to get light armor? I considered making my character a rogue/sorcerer originally, as I'm trying to make a pirate-esc character as part of the campaign will be related to seafaring, but later dismissed the idea. Thoughts?


If you're dipping anything for AC, it should be fighter. That'll get you breastplate, shield and +1AC for defense fighting style. In total, 4AC more than with Mage Armor, which was better than light armor anyway.
Nop, totally nope. If only because it messes up with OP's will to keep mental stats. Also, for a caster, what the point of trying to maximize AC? Confer the previous post.

If you want to dip, for your concept particularly, the best dip is Bard... You get light armor proficiency, keep your spell casting level, and get a handful of good exclusive spells that use the same stat.
It's evenly matched with Cleric though (you'd need to swap INT and WIS but it's worth it), or even outclassed depending on each opinion: you can wield a medium armor AND a shield, which is not a problem since you don't require a weapon: you have Shocking Grasp, and weapon cantrips would miss too often. And you get a bountiful of good spells that don't rely on your WIS, as well as useful domain features (Tempest? ;))
The main downside is the roleplay implications. You may not like being affiliated with a divinity.

[Mandragola]

As I said above, I plan on taking storm sorcerer from the SCAG. As for my stats, I dislike the idea of a dumb and oblivious character. Thanks for the input though.

That's fair enough. There are plenty of alternatives - notably spells like mirror image. A storm sorceror is good at getting out of trouble, thanks to his bonus action hops when he casts.

In the end, AC isn't as essential for casters as for other people. You shouldn't be on the front line being attacked. I stand by saying that any dip into another class is a bad option, because it's delaying getting the good spells that are the reason you're a sorceror in the first place.

[gfishfunk]

This is highly DM and party dependent: if you have a lot of front-liners, you can get away with low AC, just remember to find cover from range attacks. If the DM is notorious for attacking casters, you will be heavily penalized for it.

Options:
1. Magic Initiate for Mage Armor.
2. Multiclass into (or from) another class with better armor.
3. Change stats.

I prefer to run the character as I see it. Also, do remember that 10 on a stat is not subpar, its average. A 10 Int or 10 Wis is not dumb or reckless, but average on both counts.

[wilhelmdubdub]

If you're dipping anything for AC, it should be fighter. That'll get you breastplate, shield and +1AC for defense fighting style. In total, 4AC more than with Mage Armor, which was better than light armor anyway.

I like that also for being proficient in con saves if you are fighter at level one and then go sorcerer. A shield as a spell focus would be neat. Then remember you need strength for wearing heavy armor. You could also go Dex/Strength 15, Con 15, Charisma 15 and then take 8's in wisdom, int and your other physical stat. Remember, commoners are 6's and 10 is average for an adventurer, so you don't necessarily have to role play dumb on purpose. Fighter dip gives you second wind which is like a free cure light wounds and action surge for a round of spell, cantrip/breath weapon, quickened spell per short rest. You already get a bump on your strength, so a strong dragonborn would be efficient. Remember, your breath weapon is DC 8 plus Con plus proficiency, so if you get a minion wave in a line or cone it could help.

[Draco4472]

If you want to dip, for your concept particularly, the best dip is Bard... You get light armor proficiency, keep your spell casting level, and get a handful of good exclusive spells that use the same stat.
It's evenly matched with Cleric though (you'd need to swap INT and WIS but it's worth it), or even outclassed depending on each opinion: you can wield a medium armor AND a shield, which is not a problem since you don't require a weapon: you have Shocking Grasp, and weapon cantrips would miss too often. And you get a bountiful of good spells that don't rely on your WIS, as well as useful domain features (Tempest? ;))
The main downside is the roleplay implications. You may not like being affiliated with a divinity.

Bard seems like a good idea then. I've wanted to toy with the idea of a pirate-poet. I'd rather not dip into cleric to avoid MAD, and rogue is also looking good (Swashbuckler= pirate-like character with Cha. support). Bards get some martial weapon proficiency as well, allowing me to use Booming Blade effectively. I've never played a bard, maybe now is the chance to do so. Thanks for the advice.

[Draco4472]

This is highly DM and party dependent: if you have a lot of front-liners, you can get away with low AC, just remember to find cover from range attacks. If the DM is notorious for attacking casters, you will be heavily penalized for it.

Options:
1. Magic Initiate for Mage Armor.
2. Multiclass into (or from) another class with better armor.
3. Change stats.

I prefer to run the character as I see it. Also, do remember that 10 on a stat is not subpar, its average. A 10 Int or 10 Wis is not dumb or reckless, but average on both counts.

This will be the DM's first time running a campaign. I think they'll be fair, so long as my combination of class features don't lead to too many shenanigans.

And I am willing to lower my Int and Wis to 10 and are probably going to do so for the sake of boosting Dex for either taking Bard or Rogue levels for a pirate-like character concept.

Mage armor is something I'll probably pick up, less I get some magic light armor early on. Even +1 studded leather would be equal to mage armor, so unless the party gets a lucky find, I'll try to find a way to pick the spell up, magic initiate or otherwise.

[Draco4472]

After several posts, I'm considering starting as a Rogue and then later taking sorcerer levels (for the sake of extra skills) and eventually taking the Swashbuckler archetype, or potentially taking levels in bard (preferably the college of lore).

What does the playground think? I'd get light armor and use for my high Cha., and if I go into Bard, more skills and more support for the party.

At this point my stats would probably look like this, still a Dragonborn, still using the point-buy system:

Str: 10
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha: 16

My background is sailor with the pirate variant if that helps.

I also changed the thread's title to reflect a change in conversation. Rather, I just added "+Multiclass optimization" to it. I don't want to be flagged for a misleading title in anycase.

[Sabeta]

Perhaps all of the Runescape/other MMOs I used to play, but I look at combat as a triangle of checks and balances.

Fighters (in this case, Fighter, Paladin, Cleric, Barbarian, and Moon Druid) are front liners who A) Keep the enemy Frontliners from reaching the Backline, and B) Disrupt Archers
Rogues (Actual Rogues, Monks, Rangers, anyone with Sharpshooter and/or Crossbow Expert Bards) focus on disrupting the enemy back line. They're the anti-mages if you will.
Mages (Any full caster, including Warlock) focus on wearing down the enemy front line and crowd-control/buff/support whatever.

This probably doesn't hold up too well in actual gameplay, but it's how I imagine things anyway.

In fewer words, if your group has each of the "holy trinity" then you probably don't need to worry about AC unless your DM likes throwing Rogues at you. Having more AC is always a good thing, but there are many ways you can "cheat" to have good AC. The Mage Armor spell is a pretty good one, as well as Shield. Illusionist's can create Illusory walls or fog clouds or whatever want really to deter enemy attacks while encouraging your allies. Sorcerer's can Twin Spell Haste to let your front liners go to town on the enemy team, making them into juggernauts that are very hard to ignore. There are myriad ways for a Caster to stay safe besides AC. As others have said, it's possible to go entire sessions without ever getting hit.

[Draco4472]

Perhaps all of the Runescape/other MMOs I used to play, but I look at combat as a triangle of checks and balances.

Fighters (in this case, Fighter, Paladin, Cleric, Barbarian, and Moon Druid) are front liners who A) Keep the enemy Frontliners from reaching the Backline, and B) Disrupt Archers
Rogues (Actual Rogues, Monks, Rangers, anyone with Sharpshooter and/or Crossbow Expert Bards) focus on disrupting the enemy back line. They're the anti-mages if you will.
Mages (Any full caster, including Warlock) focus on wearing down the enemy front line and crowd-control/buff/support whatever.

This probably doesn't hold up too well in actual gameplay, but it's how I imagine things anyway.

In fewer words, if your group has each of the "holy trinity" then you probably don't need to worry about AC unless your DM likes throwing Rogues at you. Having more AC is always a good thing, but there are many ways you can "cheat" to have good AC. The Mage Armor spell is a pretty good one, as well as Shield. Illusionist's can create Illusory walls or fog clouds or whatever want really to deter enemy attacks while encouraging your allies. Sorcerer's can Twin Spell Haste to let your front liners go to town on the enemy team, making them into juggernauts that are very hard to ignore. There are myriad ways for a Caster to stay safe besides AC. As others have said, it's possible to go entire sessions without ever getting hit.

Yeah, Mage armor and shield are a given. Haste is something I'll have to look into as a sorcerer, and I can flavor it as infusing one's body with the speed of a lightning bolt or something of the sort to stay with my storm sorcerer/ pirate theme.

[Gignere]

My wizard doesn't even have Mage armor.

These are the tactics I use to prevent the DM from even targeting my character.

Always scout, 120 feet dark vision on the owl familiar is boss.

Minor Illusion is God, never stand in fireball formation.

Make sure you have Lores so you can ID monsters weakness and even special qualities like distance of their special senses.

Always use cover and if there are none make one with illusions.

Most AoE spells still require LoS to be cast, fireball is a notable exception. Until I get counterspell you can be damn sure I won't be standing in fireball formation.

[Citan]

After several posts, I'm considering starting as a Rogue and then later taking sorcerer levels (for the sake of extra skills) and eventually taking the Swashbuckler archetype, or potentially taking levels in bard (preferably the college of lore).

What does the playground think? I'd get light armor and use for my high Cha., and if I go into Bard, more skills and more support for the party.

At this point my stats would probably look like this, still a Dragonborn, still using the point-buy system:

Str: 10
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha: 16

My background is sailor with the pirate variant if that helps.

I also changed the thread's title to reflect a change in conversation. Rather, I just added "+Multiclass optimization" to it. I don't want to be flagged for a misleading title in anycase.
Well, it's significantly different from your first concept if I'm not mistaken. :)
So, yes, it surely works, although I'm not sure of what you want to achieve through that... Why am I saying that?
- I don't see you taking Rogue for Expertise in Athletics or Acrobatics and such since you woulnd't have high enough STR or DEX anyways unless you bump heavily. And you could get Expertise with Bard anyways.
- Unless you get someone in your group who can help you hit (advantage, bless, etc), you may be frustrated at how often you miss your weapon attacks, somewhat voiding Rogue features. And if you choose to bump DEX, it means you don't bump CHA. So it means you really have to choose either weapon or cast.
- Getting +CHA to Initiative is good, but you could get the same with the Alert feat all the same without delaying spell progression.
- Getting free disengage is nice, but you don't seem to be looking for melee fight anyways considering your stat distribution, so it's not so great for you.
- Getting Cunning Action is always good, but for a caster, it's not so important if you stay in the back.

In short, I don't understand your goal: with such a stat distribution, you won't be very good at melee fighting, greatly diminishing most of Rogue features.
And since there is the Pirate background already, it seems to cover your wish for fluff.
Getting 14 in DEX is still a nice idea though if you want to wield medium armor, but not mandatory.

Soo... If you want to go with this build because, after thought, the concept is more appealing to you, go for it. I don't want to give you the impression, with all my remarks, that it would be a bad build.
It will certainly work. It's just that it's not an optimized build at all.
As said though, it should not be a big problem if you have any Bard/Cleric/Paladin/WolfBarb/Monk/whatever with you to help you hit.

If you changed your mind because you were too afraid that your original concept would be too frail, then allow me to say that Bard or Cleric dip would probably resolve these problems (as well as the Stoneskin spell later). :)

[Draco4472]

My wizard doesn't even have Mage armor.

These are the tactics I use to prevent the DM from even targeting my character.

Always scout, 120 feet dark vision on the owl familiar is boss.

Minor Illusion is God, never stand in fireball formation.

Make sure you have Lores so you can ID monsters weakness and even special qualities like distance of their special senses.

Always use cover and if there are none make one with illusions.

Most AoE spells still require LoS to be cast, fireball is a notable exception. Until I get counterspell you can be damn sure I won't be standing in fireball formation.

I'm fairly sure the DM I'll have will probably prevent that after so many times, the scouting that is. And the party may end up in a situation where we don't have time to scout. In addition, I'm pretty sure find familiar isn't on the sorcerer spell list. But, assuming I have the time and resources at hand, I would try to do this when possible.

[Draco4472]

Well, it's significantly different from your first concept if I'm not mistaken. :)
So, yes, it surely works, although I'm not sure of what you want to achieve through that... Why am I saying that?
- I don't see you taking Rogue for Expertise in Athletics or Acrobatics and such since you woulnd't have high enough STR or DEX anyways unless you bump heavily. And you could get Expertise with Bard anyways.
- Unless you get someone in your group who can help you hit (advantage, bless, etc), you may be frustrated at how often you miss your weapon attacks, somewhat voiding Rogue features. And if you choose to bump DEX, it means you don't bump CHA. So it means you really have to choose either weapon or cast.
- Getting +CHA to Initiative is good, but you could get the same with the Alert feat all the same without delaying spell progression.
- Getting free disengage is nice, but you don't seem to be looking for melee fight anyways considering your stat distribution, so it's not so great for you.
- Getting Cunning Action is always good, but for a caster, it's not so important if you stay in the back.

In short, I don't understand your goal: with such a stat distribution, you won't be very good at melee fighting, greatly diminishing most of Rogue features.
And since there is the Pirate background already, it seems to cover your wish for fluff.
Getting 14 in DEX is still a nice idea though if you want to wield medium armor, but not mandatory.

Soo... If you want to go with this build because, after thought, the concept is more appealing to you, go for it. I don't want to give you the impression, with all my remarks, that it would be a bad build.
It will certainly work. It's just that it's not an optimized build at all.
As said though, it should not be a big problem if you have any Bard/Cleric/Paladin/WolfBarb/Monk/whatever with you to help you hit.

If you changed your mind because you were too afraid that your original concept would be too frail, then allow me to say that Bard or Cleric dip would probably resolve these problems (as well as the Stoneskin spell later). :)

I have a few reasons for this change in direction regarding my build.

1) Our party will consist of a fighter, a barabrian, a bard, and a cleric (not including me), so I thought taking rogue levels would be a good way to balance the party, as we would most likely be lacking in the stealth department (unless the fighter goes Dex. based or the Cleric chooses the trickster domain). This way at least a couple of us can sneak in the event we need a scouting force or otherwise. And then there's the possibility I might be the only Dex. based character in the part, as the Bard wanted to choose the college of Valor (I think they might be choosing the Dragonborn race as well)
2) Our party as no way to pick locks besides breaking them.
3) A swasbuckling sorcerer fits my image of my character concept well, especially as it shows he had a life as a pirate before his sorcerous powers manifested as they did.
4) I like the concept of a spell-throwing swordsman, one not a full caster but with melee capabilities as well. I recently played a Hunter Ranger/ War Domian Cleric multiclass for Curse of Strahd which my group finished recently, and took more levels in the latter class. I liked the concept, and want to toy with it more. Before the ranger/cleric, I tried the bladesinger wizard tradition from the SCAG, and liked it as well.

And yes, the stats listed in the original post are very poor for a rogue. I decided on 10,14,14,10,10,16 for my character, who can both act as the party face and scout, and as for spellcasting, I would balance it out with utility, support, and blasting spells that would fit the storm sorcerer fluff. I have plenty of spells I can blast with; Lightning Bolt, Thunderwave, Witch Bolt, Chromatic Orb, etc. For support/Utility; Haste, Fly, Water Walk, Water Breathing, Mist step, etc.

In short, I'm pirate good at pirate things, like stealing, sailing, lying, etc. At least that's how I see my character now anyway, having both combined what I wanted with something to support and balance the rest of the party. That was the main reason, as most of the other PC's would be strength based bruisers (the cleric may end up one too) and so, I though a Dex. based character would be helpful and balancing, especially with more spellcasting support and what seems like no stealth potential.

Yes, I probably can do all this as a sorcerer with feats, but I'd like a more immediate solution to the problems the party will face, hence, rather wait until I'm a few ASI's in, I thought, "why not a few levels in instead?"

But yes, you are completely right about the not needing to delve into rogue otherwise, save for my own concept of what a pirate would be (A swashbuckler) and wanting to make a class combination that both balances the party in its skills and is still within the limits of what I can call 'my character' based on my original vision. Is it an optimized build? No, not at all, but one I want to try.

[Sigreid]

The answer to the core question is that AC always helps, but as a sorcerer you're unlikely to ever have that great of an armor class anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much. Instead focus on tactics that minimize your need for armor class.

[Citan]

I have a few reasons for this change in direction regarding my build.

1) Our party will consist of a fighter, a barabrian, a bard, and a cleric (not including me), so I thought taking rogue levels would be a good way to balance the party, as we would most likely be lacking in the stealth department (unless the fighter goes Dex. based or the Cleric chooses the trickster domain). This way at least a couple of us can sneak in the event we need a scouting force or otherwise. And then there's the possibility I might be the only Dex. based character in the part, as the Bard wanted to choose the college of Valor (I think they might be choosing the Dragonborn race as well)

4) I like the concept of a spell-throwing swordsman, one not a full caster but with melee capabilities as well. I recently played a Hunter Ranger/ War Domian Cleric multiclass for Curse of Strahd which my group finished recently, and took more levels in the latter class. I liked the concept, and want to toy with it more. Before the ranger/cleric, I tried the bladesinger wizard tradition from the SCAG, and liked it as well.

Note that my remarks were taking into account the revised stats (so starting with 14 DEX and 16 CHA).
Since you have a Cleric in your group though, he will probably cast Bless on the Fighter, Barbarian, and you, so my worry about being reliable with to hit has been voided. ;)
And since you are ok with being a halfish caster, the other great worry has been voided too.

Anyways, now I see how you took party needs into consideration as well as your own wishs, and made a thought-out build as a result, so what could I ever say apart from...
"Go for it and have fun!" ;)

[Vogonjeltz]

It doesn't fit my character's backstory to be less then average mentally, and I fell unsure of playing a character that supposedly did these things but has less then average Int and Wis. 10-11 is something I'm fine with, but lower then that not so much.

Also, fireball makes a marching order irrelevant.

As for AC, I would hope I could readjust my stats for it rather then delay my spell progression, but nor do I want to be a glass cannon in combat. Rather, a less fragile cannon that hits just as hard. Perhaps a cannon of some less then sturdy wood?

In anycase, I don't want to be a detriment to the rest of the party by getting hit easily before I can do anything. It's happened to me before with spellcasters with a higher AC then what I would be getting with the stats I've provided in the original post. First time I played a wizard in 5e, I took a heavy crossbow bolt and went down on the first turn of combat. I don't want that to happen again.

But thank you for the suggestion nonetheless.

I think I understand the dilemma, but there is no level of AC where that same event won't happen. As you also mention, Fireball bypasses the protection of proper positioning and it also doesn't care about AC.

A level 1 character (+2 proficiency, +3 mod) can hit up to 24 AC natively, and anyone who rolls a 20 will automatically hit and crit, which is enough to drop the Wizard outright.

Your options for avoiding a single hit kill are:

1) AC to avoid hits. Doesn't prevent all hits, does nothing against saves (i.e. Fireball)

2) Higher hit points. Temporary hit points.

3) Avoid being subject to an attack or save in the first place.

You won't always be able to control for #3, although best practices in strategic positioning probably will allow for it.
Higher hit points are probably your best bet, especially if you are concerned about losing out to area of effect spells: Toughness and/or False Life.

[Draco4472]

I think I understand the dilemma, but there is no level of AC where that same event won't happen. As you also mention, Fireball bypasses the protection of proper positioning and it also doesn't care about AC.

A level 1 character (+2 proficiency, +3 mod) can hit up to 24 AC natively, and anyone who rolls a 20 will automatically hit and crit, which is enough to drop the Wizard outright.

Your options for avoiding a single hit kill are:

1) AC to avoid hits. Doesn't prevent all hits, does nothing against saves (i.e. Fireball)

2) Higher hit points. Temporary hit points.

3) Avoid being subject to an attack or save in the first place.

You won't always be able to control for #3, although best practices in strategic positioning probably will allow for it.
Higher hit points are probably your best bet, especially if you are concerned about losing out to area of effect spells: Toughness and/or False Life.

Fair points all. When presented like that, AC is not as important as I once thought. Still very important mind you, but not essential.

[djreynolds]

I played a mountain dwarf abjurer with half-plate AC 15, that AC is just fine.

Mirror image and protection from evil/good or blur are viable AC helpers as is the shield spell.

AC 13 is just as good, D&D is a team sport and I actually tanked along side many melee combatants just to take some of the beatings they were enduring.

Max out casting stat and constitution and use the shield spell and mirror image, if you are hasting a buddy stay out of melee.

[Draco4472]

Note that my remarks were taking into account the revised stats (so starting with 14 DEX and 16 CHA).
Since you have a Cleric in your group though, he will probably cast Bless on the Fighter, Barbarian, and you, so my worry about being reliable with to hit has been voided. ;)
And since you are ok with being a halfish caster, the other great worry has been voided too.

Anyways, now I see how you took party needs into consideration as well as your own wishs, and made a thought-out build as a result, so what could I ever say apart from...
"Go for it and have fun!" ;)

Thanks. If it turns out we have more Dex. based characters in the party, or I end up having a boring time playing with this character, I might go back to the original idea.

[Mandragola]

Couple of thoughts on your build:

Personally, I still dislike the idea of multiclassing a full caster before level 5. In fact this goes for just about any character. 3rd level spells are too good to delay.

Scouting requires perception and darkvision, which aren't that easy to get if your character doesn't have them.

A character with (probably) the lowest AC and hp in the party may not be the guy you want to send off on his own to scout. Sounds risky!

You're trying to do a lot with your character. If you're both the party scout and the party face, that's a lot of game time you'll be taking up - unless you're in initiative all the time.

So I wonder if maybe some of the roles could be taken up by others. Might the bard be a decent scout, for instance?

Alternatively, if you took the "criminal" background you'd have access to thieves' tools and stealth, which are the features you want from being a rogue, while continuing to have con save proficiency. You wouldn't have useless stuff like sneak attack. I like having backgrounds to describe a character's history, rather than actual character levels.

[Draco4472]

Couple of thoughts on your build:

Personally, I still dislike the idea of multiclassing a full caster before level 5. In fact this goes for just about any character. 3rd level spells are too good to delay.

Scouting requires perception and darkvision, which aren't that easy to get if your character doesn't have them.

A character with (probably) the lowest AC and hp in the party may not be the guy you want to send off on his own to scout. Sounds risky!

You're trying to do a lot with your character. If you're both the party scout and the party face, that's a lot of game time you'll be taking up - unless you're in initiative all the time.

So I wonder if maybe some of the roles could be taken up by others. Might the bard be a decent scout, for instance?

Alternatively, if you took the "criminal" background you'd have access to thieves' tools and stealth, which are the features you want from being a rogue, while continuing to have con save proficiency. You wouldn't have useless stuff like sneak attack. I like having backgrounds to describe a character's history, rather than actual character levels.

3rd levels spells are awesome. My choice on multiclassing was to reflect that my character had skills before getting sorcerous powers, and so I could get the roguish features that would help the party early on.

The sailor background gives me proficiency in perception, and later I can get expertise in it. You're right though about the Dragonborn's lack of darkvision, thus making me a fairly obvious scout. But with the rogue levels I'll be taking, my HP won't be the lowest before level 5, but not the highest (barbarians and their d12's and all).

Party scout and face wasn't my intention, but proficiency in stealth and some of the Cha. skills made me into that. The bard in our party will probably be a better face than I however, leaving stealth and stealing to me (sleight of hand and stealth expertise, may reconsider those options).

The bard will be strength based (and choosing college of Valor for its heavy armor proficiency) and so I doubt the walking suit of armor will be good at stealth. Nevertheless, he may pump his stealth score with expertise high enough to be a viable scout.

And yes, the criminal background would fit with my character, but I also believe that sneak attack stacks with the effects of 'Booming Blade' and so it isn't worthless. In addition, the Swashbuckling Sorcerer is a build I've wanted to try, and taking rogue levels on a sorcerer to balance the party made it seem like a 'kill-two-birds-with-one-stone' situation to me.

Is my build optimized? No. But I think it'll be fun for me to play. If not, I can revise my character if I dislike how it plays.

Thank you for the input.

[DragonSorcererX]

I was building a sorcerer for a campaign my group and I will be starting next week, and I was thinking of playing a sorcerer. My current ability scores were chosen via the point-buy system and my race is Dragonborn

Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 16

My question is whether I should dump my Wis and Int to increase my Dex, thus increasing my armor class. I feel unsure of this but dislike the idea of playing a character both oblivious and dumb. But I also don't want to be in a situation where I get hit so many times that I go down before I can help the party in combat, being a liability.
What does the Playground think?

Int 13? You are a Sorcerer, you are basically the Barbarian Wizard! Also, you are a Dragonborn Sorcerer, why think when you are a Dragon who shoots Fireballs out of your hands?