Suggestions for Mastermind Rogue

[HeyBJ]

So my regular 5E group is just finishing up Out of the Abyss (thank God, because I'm ****ing sick of the Underdark), and our DM mentioned he wants our next campaign to be extremely low magic. So much so that our group of 5 will be allowed only one caster, if any. In that spirit, I've decided to make a Mastermind for disguise shenanigans and messing with NPCs in ways that pretty much only casters could. So my question is, how should I design my build to maximize social abilities while still being somewhat viable in combat (which is really an uphill battle with Masterminds). So far, using point buy, I'm thinking Half-Elf:

STR: 8
DEX: 15 (+1) = 16
CON: 13 (+1) = 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 14 (+2) = 16

For background, I'm thinking criminal (spy) so he'll have built-in stealth and deception proficiency. For the proficiencies granted by his Rogue-ness, I'm thinking Performance, Intimidation, Perception, and Insight. For Half-Elf proficiencies, I'm thinking History and Investigation to better fit his spy background.

That's what I have so far. I welcome any suggestions, particularly in regards to making it combat-viable. Also, I could use some advice about the skill proficiencies and which ones to have expertise in. As a spy, perception and deception seem like must-haves, but I'm open to arguments in favor of other skills. And finally, what multiclass options would synergize well?

[Specter]

The guide in my signature may help.

[RickAllison]

Might be good to pick up Animal Handling, actually, to train ravens (or convince your DM to let you take the Magic Initiate for wizard as a mundane feat, taking Find Familiar for a raven to be your little pet, Blade Ward to be you taking a defensive to deflect incoming attacks, and Friends to be the classic "Bless Your Heart" tactic, the ability to tell someone something that appears to be a friendly and persuasive comment at first glance, but they realize was an insult as you walk away). Ravens can mimic human speech, are intelligent enough to grab things if you can indicate the item somehow, are scavengers and so easy to feed, and are good distractions. You gain the ability the mimic others as a Mastermind, and your raven can mimic you!

[HeyBJ]

The guide in my signature may help.

Thanks! There's definitely some good stuff in there, but it'll take a little parsing since that guide assumes the possibility of magic.


Might be good to pick up Animal Handling, actually, to train ravens (or convince your DM to let you take the Magic Initiate for wizard as a mundane feat, taking Find Familiar for a raven to be your little pet, Blade Ward to be you taking a defensive to deflect incoming attacks, and Friends to be the classic "Bless Your Heart" tactic, the ability to tell someone something that appears to be a friendly and persuasive comment at first glance, but they realize was an insult as you walk away). Ravens can mimic human speech, are intelligent enough to grab things if you can indicate the item somehow, are scavengers and so easy to feed, and are good distractions. You gain the ability the mimic others as a Mastermind, and your raven can mimic you!

Oh, man. Love that raven idea! Almost 100% sure the Magic Initiate's gonna be a no-go though. In his words, my DM wants people to be like, "Holy crap! I never thought I'd meet an actual magic user!" when they come across a wizard. So I'm pretty much stuck with martial combat abilities. I'm starting to think using more tools like caltrops or poison would be the way to go, considering my character's profession.

[RickAllison]

Oh, man. Love that raven idea! Almost 100% sure the Magic Initiate's gonna be a no-go though. In his words, my DM wants people to be like, "Holy crap! I never thought I'd meet an actual magic user!" when they come across a wizard. So I'm pretty much stuck with martial combat abilities. I'm starting to think using more tools like caltrops or poison would be the way to go, considering my character's profession.

Animal Handling still works then, but try to have several in case a few are disposed of.

[Naanomi]

Charlatan background gives unique forgery abilities that can't be replicated any other way

[R.Shackleford]

So my regular 5E group is just finishing up Out of the Abyss (thank God, because I'm ****ing sick of the Underdark), and our DM mentioned he wants our next campaign to be extremely low magic. So much so that our group of 5 will be allowed only one caster, if any. In that spirit, I've decided to make a Mastermind for disguise shenanigans and messing with NPCs in ways that pretty much only casters could. So my question is, how should I design my build to maximize social abilities while still being somewhat viable in combat (which is really an uphill battle with Masterminds). So far, using point buy, I'm thinking Half-Elf:

STR: 8
DEX: 15 (+1) = 16
CON: 13 (+1) = 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 14 (+2) = 16

For background, I'm thinking criminal (spy) so he'll have built-in stealth and deception proficiency. For the proficiencies granted by his Rogue-ness, I'm thinking Performance, Intimidation, Perception, and Insight. For Half-Elf proficiencies, I'm thinking History and Investigation to better fit his spy background.

That's what I have so far. I welcome any suggestions, particularly in regards to making it combat-viable. Also, I could use some advice about the skill proficiencies and which ones to have expertise in. As a spy, perception and deception seem like must-haves, but I'm open to arguments in favor of other skills. And finally, what multiclass options would synergize well?

If no one picks a caster then you should look into to the ritual caster feat.

[Mandragola]

Do you know what kind of magic user the caster is going to be? Because a bard might have the social side of things covered. Bard would probably be my pick if I could only have one caster in the group.

Back to your character, I don't think a half elf rogue has to worry much about which background they take, at least in terms of what proficiencies they take. You get so many skills already from the class and race that you're already very well set up.

I always think that a mastermind ought to be intelligent, but there's honestly no reason they need to be. Luckily, a mastermind is an extremely SAD class, that basically only needs dex to function. You'll be very happy to stay at the back in fights shooting at stuff. So buying a good charisma score at character creation shouldn't be a problem.

[Oramac]

For the proficiencies granted by his Rogue-ness, I'm thinking Performance, Intimidation, Perception, and Insight. For Half-Elf proficiencies, I'm thinking History and Investigation to better fit his spy background.

I would trade out Performance to grab Persuasion instead. Other than that, it looks good.

Also, I second your hated of the Underdark.

[HeyBJ]

Charlatan background gives unique forgery abilities that can't be replicated any other way

Yeah, I saw that. I might consider it, but it kind of depends on what the setting of the campaign will be. If we're not in the city a whole lot, forgery isn't going to be super useful.


If no one picks a caster then you should look into to the ritual caster feat.

If the DM allows a caster, someone will pick one.


Do you know what kind of magic user the caster is going to be? Because a bard might have the social side of things covered. Bard would probably be my pick if I could only have one caster in the group.

Back to your character, I don't think a half elf rogue has to worry much about which background they take, at least in terms of what proficiencies they take. You get so many skills already from the class and race that you're already very well set up.

I always think that a mastermind ought to be intelligent, but there's honestly no reason they need to be. Luckily, a mastermind is an extremely SAD class, that basically only needs dex to function. You'll be very happy to stay at the back in fights shooting at stuff. So buying a good charisma score at character creation shouldn't be a problem.

Not sure if we'll even have a caster yet. We're not done with our current campaign yet, so this is all super preliminary. I'm planning for the worst case scenario of not having a caster at all. As for the proficiencies, since Masterminds aren't really built for combat, I'm going to really lean into the skill-monkey role. Might even take the Skilled feat so I can do freaking eeeeverythiiing.


I would trade out Performance to grab Persuasion instead. Other than that, it looks good.

Also, I second your hated of the Underdark.

I picked performance mainly to better sell my disguises. But yeah, I'm flip flopping between the two a lot. Maybe I will take the Skilled feat just so I'll have both...

[Oramac]

I'm going to really lean into the skill-monkey role. Might even take the Skilled feat so I can do freaking eeeeverythiiing.

Between Skilled and some levels in Bard, you can get proficiency in every skill. If you're going for that, it could come in handy.

Come to think of it, you might not even need Skilled with Bard levels. But I'm AFB right now and can't check.