Enlarge Pseudo Dragon

[SMac8988]

My wife is going to be playing her first long term campaign with me a few friends. She isn't one for fantasy most the time, but is excited about trying this. She is a fan of game of thrones and I was thinking of helping her build a nod to Daenerys. Thinking a wizard with a psuedo dragon as a pet and using the enlarge spell to focus that as her main combat thing.

I was wondering if you could cast enlarge mutiple times or at a higher level in order to bring this tiny creature into something fierce at higher levels to be worthy of the mother of dragons?

[NecroDancer]

No because enlarge is a concentration spell

[RickAllison]

My wife is going to be playing her first long term campaign with me a few friends. She isn't one for fantasy most the time, but is excited about trying this. She is a fan of game of thrones and I was thinking of helping her build a nod to Daenerys. Thinking a wizard with a psuedo dragon as a pet and using the enlarge spell to focus that as her main combat thing.

I was wondering if you could cast enlarge mutiple times or at a higher level in order to bring this tiny creature into something fierce at higher levels to be worthy of the mother of dragons?

Not by RAW, even the Potion of Growth says it puts the creature under the effect of the Enlarge spell, and that can't be stacked. However, the DM could rule that different sources of it (so the spell, the potion, and permanent magic items) do stack. Otherwise, class levels?

You could also have it become a werebear at some point. Turn Large when it needs to :smallbiggrin:

[SMac8988]

We are starting at level 1, it would be something for her as we go. I honestly don't have my mm near me to know the stats of pseudo to know how bad it needs the enlarge to make it useful

[RickAllison]

We are starting at level 1, it would be something for her as we go. I honestly don't have my mm near me to know the stats of pseudo to know how bad it needs the enlarge to make it useful

It needs to get to Small size in order to not be dealing 1 damage, and then Large if he wants to deal more than 1dX. Except Enlarge has a specific effect on damage, so it can't help there (but magic items could potentially do so).

[SMac8988]

It needs to get to Small size in order to not be dealing 1 damage, and then Large if he wants to deal more than 1dX. Except Enlarge has a specific effect on damage, so it can't help there (but magic items could potentially do so).

Oh ouch, that sucks

[JellyPooga]

Pets in 5ed are...somewhat toned down since previous editions (Pets in Pathfinder epitomise the "buddy better than the PC" phenomenon).

Finding a decent pet is probably best done not through Class choice and Character Features, but through NPC interactions.

Run a dragon as an NPC for her; if she wants it to do something, she'll have to persuade or intimidate it. Training could take up much of her downtime. One advantage of doing this is that your (presumably relatively inexperienced) wife won't have to worry about the somewhat more complex mechanics of playing a dragon; flight, recharge abilities and so forth. All she needs to do is shout "Dracarys" and the dragon breathes fire. At least until such time as she's more familiar with the rules, when you can hand over the reins somewhat (at least in combat).

It also leaves her free to have a character that's competent in her own right, instead of having a gimped character build with a (very likely) substandard Pet making up for her lack.

As the Players grow, the dragon can also (literally, if enough time passes in-game), at a rate the GM is comfortable with. I think this is better than trying to jump through hoops to bring something sub-par up to scratch.

If you use this idea, be sure to adjust encounter difficulties and XP to account for the "extra" party member.

Not forgetting, as well, that an NPC is an opportunity for plot and intrigue, whilst Class Features rarely are. Kill or capture a Class Feature Pet and you have to find some way to replace it or the PC is going to feel gipped. Kill or capture an NPC Pet and it becomes a quest to rescue or replace that Pet, during which time the PC is not underpowered.

[SMac8988]

My question then is, before I bring it to my dm, how would other DM's feel about allowing it to be casted on a familiar at a higher level. Repeat the effects basically. Damage increase by 1d4 and some type of health buff per level. So a medium would be 3d4 + str with decent ish health but would cost like a level 4 spell?

[Degwerks]

Talk him into letting her have a Faerie Dragon.

[SMac8988]

Talk him into letting her have a Faerie Dragon.

Why? Like I said no mm next to ne

[Degwerks]

Faerie dragons are CR 1, they gain more spell like powers as they age, when they age their scales change color. They can also speak draconic and sylvan & telepathy.

[SMac8988]

Faerie dragons are CR 1, they gain more spell like powers as they age, when they age their scales change color. They can also speak draconic and sylvan & telepathy.

That is kinda awesome. But seems kinda over powered.... I also thought that getting the psudo dragon was something wizards could just do..... I feel I'm wrong about that....

[DracoKnight]

That is kinda awesome. But seems kinda over powered.... I also thought that getting the psudo dragon was something wizards could just do..... I feel I'm wrong about that....

Warlocks can, not Wizards.

[SMac8988]

Warlocks can, not Wizards.

Hmmm. Would a warlock be better for what I am thinking

[Erys]

Hmmm. Would a warlock be better for what I am thinking

By the rules a Warlock can get a pseudodragon familiar; wizards cannot. But on the flip side Warlocks don't get enlarge, and Wizards do.

[SMac8988]

Pact of chain does not seem to do what I am looking for. Like the minors seem great, for everything but combat. Sadly we were looking to make this her main thing. Like almost giving up her main action to make the psudo attack. Idk may have to home brew it some.

[Erys]

Pact of chain does not seem to do what I am looking for. Like the minors seem great, for everything but combat. Sadly we were looking to make this her main thing. Like almost giving up her main action to make the psudo attack. Idk may have to home brew it some.

Giving up her action for the familiar to attack is a chainlock thing.

But it seems you will need to get your DM involved for any of the rest.

[SMac8988]

Hmmm. Blah, was hoping it would be something at least kinda by the books

[DivisibleByZero]

Homebrew an arcane tradition for the wizard (or a subclass for any caster, really) that gives it a cool familiar. Similar in concept to, but very different from, the pact of the chain. Abilities would be to allow it to attack, grow its size, etc.

[RickAllison]

Hmmm. Blah, was hoping it would be something at least kinda by the books

Not really. I would suggest to the DM using custom Invocations to solve the problem. Chains of Life to redirect damage to the PC, one to attack twice with the familiar, and some to increase the CR and size restrictions.

[Addaran]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?398016-Wizard-Archetype-Bonded-Mage-(PEACH)
I remember liking that homebrew when i read it. Not sure if it's balanced.

You could also make her a beastmaster ranger and handwave that her pet can be a pseudodragon. She can even have it before the subclass, just without all the ranger bonuses. Since beastmasters are regarded as bad, people probably won't object to the boost of having a pseudodragon. (Not sure how much she wanted to play a wizard/caster)

Warlock/ranger hybride that lets the familiar become the pet is probably the closest by-the-book way to do it, but then again, it requires some handwaving and probably not a very optimized multiclass...

[SMac8988]

May just have her go ranger and make sure my dm is cool with jt

[Degwerks]

Easy... your wife was a young (apprentice; ranger; emo-goth LARPer)

and either
(came across a wounded "............"; accidentally summoned a "........."; while cutting herself complaining & brooding about no Hot Topic in her village "............"; or stumbled into a cave and interrupted a mind flayer ritual "............")

and:
( you had to give it a blood transfusion; and screwed up the summoning spell with a dominate/magic jar incantation; carelessly flung your teenage angsty blood at a suddenly appearing ".........."; the mind flayer blasted you with a psionic brain freeze scrambler but targeted you and accidently an invisible ".......")

And now for better or worse you're linked both body and soul to a (pseudodragon or faerie dragon). You share the same AC, saves, hit points etc...all spells are cast through the dragon which is also your arcane focus, its also your fey patron, in melee combat your minds clash and it stays in your square doing damage with it s bite equal to whatever weapon you hold, ranged weapon attacks it flys toward something and bites it.

Running out of creative steam here, you guys have to finish.

[Arkhios]

Actually, any caster can get pseudodragon (and imp, quasit, or sprite) as a familiar (afaik, as long as they know the Find Familiar spell), but in those cases it'd have to be the actual creature, and not just the immortal spirit taking a form of said creature. The trick is to first find one and then make a deal with or prove the creature to accept a servitude to you.

It's not impossible, but it shouldn't be easy either.

When it comes to Daenerys, she's definitely more charismatic than intelligent (why else would she rely on advisors? :smalltongue:); that's not to say she was stupid, just that her charisma is the more pronounced characteristic. In this light, a nod to Daenerys would probably work better as a Warlock. Alternative solution could be a variant human Draconic Sorcerer (gold or red dragon heritage) with the Ritual Caster feat (prerequisite int 13 or wis 13) as the Human bonus feat. With Ritual Caster you could learn Find Familiar (because it's a ritual) even though it's not on Sorcerer's spell list.

[SMac8988]

We ended up going with the beast circle druid, found it bouncing around some sites. I believe it was in an unearth arcana.

Basically we are gonna give her the psudo as her "beast" and the wild shapes are going to be the size changes. So it's a 1/4 cr to start, then get a half then a full by level 8. If the game continues much past we will add a cr 2 form.

Feel it covers what we need and let's her play a class she was somewhat interested in

[Maxilian]

The only way you could actually use a Pseudo Dragon by RAW as a mount is by increasing the size of the Pseudo Dragon and decreasing the size of 1 small player (any small race, making the Pseudo Dragon a small creature and the player Tiny, doubt its what you would want, but... is something, i guess...) :smallbiggrin:

Also the idea amuse me :smalltongue:


Note: The Enlarge/Reduce Spell, would need 2 caster (Its a concentration spell), unless you have a potion of Growth (So an Gnome/Halfling Artificer could do this alone) and at lvl 3, so you could see it as a easy way to get "Fly" on a low lvl character, and having in mind that you're tiny and your mount is small, it would be easier to use anything as cover.

[DracoKnight]

The only way you could actually use a Pseudo Dragon as a mount is by increasing the size of the Pseudo Dragon and decreasing the size of 1 small player (any small race, making the Pseudo Dragon a small creature and the player Tiny, doubt its what you would want, but... is something, i guess...) :smallbiggrin:

Also the idea amuse me :smalltongue:

Or make the pseudodragon medium and the player small.

[Maxilian]

Or make the pseudodragon medium and the player small.

How would you made the Pseudodragon medium?

It is a Tiny creature, so you would need to Enlarge it (but it will only increase it sizes to Small) and the Enlarge spell doesn't stack, so you would need to Reduce yourself for that (and a medium creature would become Small, so he/she won't be able to ride the Pseudodragon), a small PC could though.

[SMac8988]

So we are going to use a mild rework of circle of the beast for the druid. Call it circle of the dragon. She is gonna start with a small sized dragon with only a 1d4 bite and a 1d6 breath attack. This way she can carry it and it's got enough to make it useful for a few levels.

At level 6 she will be able to use her wild shapes to bring it to either a medium or large size, going to a cr 1/2 and cr 1.

I am debating if it would be fair/reasonable to give her the ability to make it huge in size at like level 14 or so. Thoughts?

[DracoKnight]

How would you made the Pseudodragon medium?

It is a Tiny creature, so you would need to Enlarge it (but it will only increase it sizes to Small) and the Enlarge spell doesn't stack, so you would need to Reduce yourself for that (and a medium creature would become Small, so he/she won't be able to ride the Pseudodragon), a small PC could though.

I meant alter its statblock so that it is a medium creature.

[Sir cryosin]

We have a player that did this exact same thing. What we did was took the ranger beast companie. Allowed her to summon it through find familiar. And it took her action to attack she was also able to cast spells throught it as well. It want really op it was just her playing a tiny dragon spitting out spells really. Oh she was a wizard and she didn't have any wizard school the companion aka ranger beast master archtype was her school archtype futures

[Maxilian]

I am debating if it would be fair/reasonable to give her the ability to make it huge in size at like level 14 or so. Thoughts?

If you plan on incrementing the damage of the dragon the same way it increase in the MM, it may be too much

[Maxilian]

I meant alter its statblock so that it is a medium creature.

Oh, yeah, you could do that, IMHO for the stats, use the Pterodactyl statblock and modify it as a Pseudo Dragon.

[SMac8988]

I figured I would increase damage similar to that of the enlarge spell. 1d4 per size increase. So 1d4 small, 2d4 med, 3d4 large.