Daring Champion build help

[ShiningCrusader]

Hi Everybody! so i'm playing a game of pathfinder on Sat and have decided to build a Daring champion cavalier. so i won't be able to give stats because its (roll your stats in front of GM, which i don't considering its roll 4d6 reroll 1's, drop lowest) but i have no idea what race to use or feats, though i want to use rapier if possible for that swashbuckler flare. books allowed, All but no 3rd party material, but for the stake of not looking in books i don't have, please only CRB, APG, ACG, UC, and UM.

[Gallowglass]

what level are you starting at? Will this be a one shot, or an ongoing? Homebrew world or an adventure path?

[Geddy2112]

You want good dex and cha. If you are going for a strength build, you need that too. You can get dex to damage through fencing grace with a rapier, but that is out of ultimate intrigue. You can get slashing grace out of the ACG with a longsword and use it like a rapier, for the same dex to damage effect. Dervish dance can also get you dex to damage, but it is not a 1 handed piercing weapon(scimitar) and requires 2 ranks in perform:dance, so better for slashing grace. Without those you want at least a 12 strength. Don't dump wisdom as will is a weak save, and as a frontliner don't dump con. Unless you go dex to damage, you have to totally dump INT and lack skill ranks(being human helps here). If you can be dex based, then you can dump strength, just be sure to have someone else in the party carry your crap.

Unless you are dead set on a particular cavalier order, the challenge mechanic, or the teamwork feat thing, you should go with the inspired blade swashbuckler. It is from the ACG, uses the rapier to much better effect.

Second that it helps knowing starting level etc.

[ShiningCrusader]

what level are you starting at? Will this be a one shot, or an ongoing? Homebrew world or an adventure path?


You want good dex and cha. If you are going for a strength build, you need that too. You can get dex to damage through fencing grace with a rapier, but that is out of ultimate intrigue. You can get slashing grace out of the ACG with a longsword and use it like a rapier, for the same dex to damage effect. Dervish dance can also get you dex to damage, but it is not a 1 handed piercing weapon(scimitar) and requires 2 ranks in perform:dance, so better for slashing grace. Without those you want at least a 12 strength. Don't dump wisdom as will is a weak save, and as a frontliner don't dump con. Unless you go dex to damage, you have to totally dump INT and lack skill ranks(being human helps here). If you can be dex based, then you can dump strength, just be sure to have someone else in the party carry your crap.

Unless you are dead set on a particular cavalier order, the challenge mechanic, or the teamwork feat thing, you should go with the inspired blade swashbuckler. It is from the ACG, uses the rapier to much better effect.

Second that it helps knowing starting level etc.
oops! where starting at lv 1
i could play a inspired blade, but i thought i heard somewhere that daring champion had better damage output.

[CasualViking]

Daring Champion doesn't have OP&R. His damage output comes online at level 4, when he can combine challenge and Precise Strike. I'm not convinced.

[Geddy2112]

Combined with the right caviler order and challenge bonus, then yeah the daring champion can do some serious damage.

Order of the flame has no damage cap in theory, and several other orders do boost damage. If you were mounted with a a lance you can do scary stupid damage. So yeah you could do more raw damage that way and if you wanna do that go daring champion. I think that swashbuckler is a much more rounded class however.

[Cybershark]

Combined with the right caviler order and challenge bonus, then yeah the daring champion can do some serious damage.

Order of the flame has no damage cap in theory, and several other orders do boost damage. If you were mounted with a a lance you can do scary stupid damage. So yeah you could do more raw damage that way and if you wanna do that go daring champion. I think that swashbuckler is a much more rounded class however.

I've seen folks get Order of the Flame cavaliers to ridiculous bonuses to damage, and only around AC 5. Essentially the meaning of what a glass cannon is.

As a side note, I've considered an Invulnerable Rager that VMC'd into Cavalier to pick up Order of the Flame. The DR could counter the lower AC and result in a net boost in damage.

[CasualViking]

Combined with the right caviler order and challenge bonus, then yeah the daring champion can do some serious damage.

Order of the flame has no damage cap in theory, and several other orders do boost damage. If you were mounted with a a lance you can do scary stupid damage. So yeah you could do more raw damage that way and if you wanna do that go daring champion. I think that swashbuckler is a much more rounded class however.

Precise Strike deosn't work with a lance, though. Mounted lance is a "two-handed weapon wielded in one hand", not used "as a one-handed weapon". Yes, the distinction is extremely stupid.

[Florian]

Hi Everybody! so i'm playing a game of pathfinder on Sat and have decided to build a Daring champion cavalier. so i won't be able to give stats because its (roll your stats in front of GM, which i don't considering its roll 4d6 reroll 1's, drop lowest) but i have no idea what race to use or feats, though i want to use rapier if possible for that swashbuckler flare. books allowed, All but no 3rd party material, but for the stake of not looking in books i don't have, please only CRB, APG, ACG, UC, and UM.

You actually gain more by not picking that archetype and sticking to the regular Cavalier, even while using a Rapier or similar "Swashbuckler" weapon.

The strength of this class comes from combining Spirited Charge with Challenge and Power Attack/Piranha Strikes (Smite All!) to get an absurdly high damage multiplier going and Daring Champion simply drops that.

For offensive, go human, basic Cavalier, Order of the Flame, aim at Spirit Charge as 3rd level feat and use the Sword Scion and Swordlord´s Page traits to handle an Aldori Dueling Sword.

Should you want to "tank", then use Daring Champion along the Order of the Eastern Star to gain an absurdly high AC.