Rebalanced Monk of the 4 Elements

[Meta]

Hi everyone.

I'm one of a few DMs running a rotating, dungeon-crawling heavy 5e game. I've heard that the way of the 4 Elements is a little lackluster compared to some others, but I don't have a lot of experience yet. Another DM is touting some homebrew as the ideal change, but our monk player thinks it goes a bit too far. I'm doing some catch-up research, but I hope I could get your opinions on the matter as well.

Here's the home brew: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1pdYIcfHauwNDM2My1XeWFYSDA/view

Thanks for any help and advice!

[clash]

Hi everyone.

I'm one of a few DMs running a rotating, dungeon-crawling heavy 5e game. I've heard that the way of the 4 Elements is a little lackluster compared to some others, but I don't have a lot of experience yet. Another DM is touting some homebrew as the ideal change, but our monk player thinks it goes a bit too far. I'm doing some catch-up research, but I hope I could get your opinions on the matter as well.

Here's the home brew: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1pdYIcfHauwNDM2My1XeWFYSDA/view

Thanks for any help and advice!

The simpleist fix is just to adjust the spells to use a number of ki = spell level rather than the typical spell level + 1

[TheUser]

The simpleist fix is just to adjust the spells to use a number of ki = spell level rather than the typical spell level + 1

Yeah entirely this.

The rework is overpowered. The old one is just a little Ki heavy but is -very- good if the ki costs = spell level.

[supergoji18]

Thematically, i love it. It provides a very deep feeling of elemental magic and a ton of ways to customize your character. But balance wise, I cringe at everything but the cantrips part at the beginning.

Since you're doing a dungeon crawl style of game, then i'd just do what everyone else is saying here and readjust the ki points spent, then it's fine.

[Meta]

Will that cause an issue with abilities that cost 1 ki point (now 0) like Fangs of the Fire Snake?

[clash]

Will that cause an issue with abilities that cost 1 ki point (now 0) like Fangs of the Fire Snake?

Keep a minumum of 1 ki for anything. Its mostly just the spells you hvae to adjust anyways.

[Vogonjeltz]

Will that cause an issue with abilities that cost 1 ki point (now 0) like Fangs of the Fire Snake?

Yes. The current ki cost appropriate, providing more damage per ki spent than any other use for monk ki.

So a major cost cutting would lead to drastic damage increases, and also allow the monk to cast spells several levels higher than intended.

[clash]

Yes. The current ki cost appropriate, providing more damage per ki spent than any other use for monk ki.

Hmmm, lets run these numbers.

Fangs of the fire snake takes 2 ki to an extra 1d10 dmg ~ 2.75 dmg/ki which makes it nearly useless for cost even with the reach.

To compare flurry of blows at level 3 does 2 attacks at a 1d4 + 3 unoptimized ~ 11 dmg/ki if they both hit and even at 50% hit rate is still an average of 5.5 dmg/ki

Something like fist of four thunders does 2d8 dmg for 2 ki ~ 9 or 4.5 dmg/ki if they make their save or 2.25 if they fail. Assuming 50% chance of taking 50% dmg it works out to 3.375 dmg/ki again lower than flurry. If it hits at least two enemies then it might start to compete with an unoptimized flurry so maybe no so far off.

Fist of Unbroken Air is at 3d10 for 2 ki ~ 6.2 dmg/ki assuming 50% save chance which is competitive with flurry.

At level 11 flurry does 2 attacks at 1d8 + 5 ~ 9.5 dmg/ki at 50% hit chance

Fireball for 4 ki does 8d6 ~ 5.25 dmg/ki at 50% save chance. Again at 2+ enemies it is competitive with flurry.

At level 17 flurry does an additional 2 attacks at 1d10 + 5 which even at 50% hit rate is 10.5 dmg/ki

Breath of winter by comparison does 8d8 for 6 ki ~ 4.5 dmg/ki. It has to hit at least 3 enemies to do better dmg.

So it looks like, assuming you always hit at least 2 enemies and assuming you dont have to deal with enemy resistances a lot of these are actually balanced by the numbers. And considering that we have a martial class that can cast 3 5th level spells per short rest it doesn't look too bad as is.

Assuming 2 short rests per day and using all your ki in between each, at level 20 you get as follows:
2 5th level spells (12) + 3 4th level spells (15) + 3 3rd level spells (12) + 3 2nd level spells (9) + 4 1st level spells (8)

Which gives you the casting of a half caster and 4 leftover ki throughout the day to use stunning strike or flurry of blows. Overall not too bad.

[Vogonjeltz]

To compare flurry of blows at level 3 does 2 attacks at a 1d4 + 3 unoptimized ~ 11 dmg/ki if they both hit and even at 50% hit rate is still an average of 5.5 dmg/ki

Flurry only adds +1 attack over the ki free Martial Arts bonus attack.

So the comparison is effectively 1 attack vs...everything else, because it's a question of ki use.

So the damage per ki spent is actually just 2.75 on Flurry.

You could spend 2 ki over two turns to deal 5.5 damage
Or
You could spend 2 ki in one turn to deal 16.5 (no save) or 8.25 (save). Assuming the target has the modifier to save about 50% of the time, the damage would average to 12.375

So two attack routines:

Round 1: Flurry - 8.25 damage average total
Round 2: Flurry - 8.25 damage average; 16.5 total.

Round 1: Fist of Unbroken Air/Water Whip: 12.375 average (50% chance of providing a status effect that gives advantage to fellow melee attackers)
Round 2: Martial Arts - 5.5 damage average; 17.875 total

Higher value per ki spent on averaged numbers against a single target, more burst, ranged, and able to impose status effects.

Fists of the Fire snake is lower damage than the alternative disciplines, but it does have the advantage of being able to make attacks from outside a subject's range for a lower ki cost. I'd call it a little more situational.