Silent Image(warlock) + Minor Illusion(bard) = at-will Major image?

[borg286]

The Bard casts message to coordinate with Warlock. Bard casts Minor Illusion to create sound of whatever you like. Warlock then uses the invocation that grants Silent Image at will to make the matching image. Preferably the warlock Messages the bard what sounds he wants, which no-one will overhear the coordination. Granted that if anyone disbelieves either then it will come across as weird. Where are the dragon sounds coming from??? I see a big dragon stomping around but it is sure quiet.
Thankfully it requires an action to investigate either.

Thoughts?

[Tanarii]

Why doesn't the Warlock just do both himself, like normal?

Also, do Warlocks even get access to Message?

[Dalebert]

You can do both yourself. Your coordinated version requires a LOT of actions. Even if you do it yourself which requires zero coordination, it takes two actions to create an image with sound which is an eternity in a combat situation but it's fine in a non-combat situation. You have to recast Minor Illusion every minute to keep the sound going.

Want a tip for making your illusion more believable? Have your unseen servant move something in conjunction with the illusion, like opening a door as the illusion enters.

[borg286]

you are right. I was under the assumption that minor illusion required concentration. Sweet.

[Pazerniusz]

No, it is good copy but Major Image have temparature, smell and some other effects without being material. Major Image can make bigger obcjets than Silent Image.
Silent Image have visual effect and Minor sound and need good co-op to work.
My tip to make it better, find guy with Thaumaturgy, they can make small tremors and some other weird things.

[Segev]

If you really want to double-team this for some reason, Great Old One Patron's telepathy power would let the Warlock give the Bard his cues without needing to mouth the words from message.

[ATHATH]

One of them could instead just dip Illusionist 2 and get both sounds and an image with a single casting of Minor Image.

[Dalebert]

One of them could instead just dip Illusionist 2 and get both sounds and an image with a single casting of Minor Image.

That's cool but I have a hard time imagining useful ways to use that since Minor Image can only make illusions of objects. I suppose you could do something like make an illusion of a trap door and the sound of someone knocking on it, or make a chest with muffled sounds of someone like they're tied up inside.

[Sabeta]

Minor Illusion Cantrip has done so much for me. I once played a Monk who had it, and the party decided to follow a raving lunatic into a clearly dangerous cave. Sensing the danger, I told them I was going to explore a different route; everyone else was metagaming and knew the lunatic was our newest PC joining late. I manage to Pass Without Trace into the bosses lair; where she was too busy writing and recting terrible poetry to notice me even in plain sight. Having memorized her voice, I then used Minor Illusion to bark orders at her subordinates.

In one room I told them there was a 5000 gold bounty on one of them, who was actually a spy. I left the room afterwards, and in about 5 rounds all but one of them was dead since they didn't trust each other to begin with.

In another I told them the prisoners had escaped and they needed to catch them. What they didn't know was that I had stolen their weapons, and that prisoners were actually armed to teeth after we had freed them.

And in one more I told them it was time to feed some monsters. What they didn't know is that we had accidentally freed those monsters from their cages, were about to lose the fight, and so we ran and bolted the door behind us. Those guys went to open the door and got eaten (the monsters themselves ran off somewhere).

Then finally I returned to the scary room just in time to see the Lunatic die (he decided it would be a good idea to provoke a stroper). I then finish the stroper off with a punch.

tldr: I soloed a dungeon with a single punch and three uses of Minor Illusion.

A level 2 Illusionist is even better. The character died at level 3, but while she was still kicking she had a habit of creating some rather terrifying imagery. I would cast an Illusion to look liked a bloody screaming version of one of their allies; usually being tortured in some way (Minor illusions can't move iirc, but that didn't stop me from creating people impaled on a spear, hung, trapped in an iron maiden). My character died because someone saw through the illusion and decided that I was entirely too terrifying to let live, and managed to push past my allies and quickly took me out.

Illusions are only limited by your imagination and some good dice. They're arguably some of the most fun spells in the game.

[Segev]

It is difficult to come up with visuals that match minor illusion's restrictions that can use its simultaneous sound, but it is possible.

You can add the crackle of the flames to an illusion of a campfire.

You can add the burble of water to an illusion of a fountain.

You can make an illusion covering a hole in the ground and make noise like there's an invisible creature on top of it.

You can make an illusion of a shadowy figure in the dark and have it speak.

[Dalebert]

You can add the crackle of the flames to an illusion of a campfire.

Calling shenanigans on this one since it can't shed light. That would be a dead giveaway that it's fake. Also, many DMs say the illusion can't be moving. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but a non-moving fire is also a dead giveaway.


You can make an illusion covering a hole in the ground and make noise like there's an invisible creature on top of it.

I love this one.


You can make an illusion of a shadowy figure in the dark and have it speak.

This one's sort of shenanigans again. It's an illusion of an object. Once it's dead, a creature is an object, i.e. a dead body. I think it's probably fine and I would allow a totally-still creature that could maybe be a statue since I can't see any real distinction between an object and a very still creature. It would, of course, only be 5 ft tall max, so a dwarf for sure, an elf probably, and even some humans are that short. Alternatively, you could have it in a crouching position.

This leads us back to the first case. If you can only make objects, but they can move a little within the constraints of an objects movement, like a fountain or a clock, then that's probably fine. But if you can make illusions of creatures as long as their totally still... that doesn't make sense anymore. Why can't you make an illusion of a creature move a little? It seems to me you have to decide which one you're going to allow. You can say you'll allow anything that fits in the space but it must remain perfectly still or you can say it can only make objects but with minor movements. If the latter, I think you have to say it's not going to fool anyone into thinking it's a creature. It's clearly a statue or a cloak over a chair or something.

If you want to be strict per the RAW, the spell says an object but doesn't say it can't move at all.

I find myself leaning for consistency. I think I'd be flexible about what's an object but say it absolutely can't move. If very simple, I'd say you might convince someone it's a creature if it's mostly in the dark or cloaked, but probably not a convincing face at all. If they saw the face, it would look like a painted statue at best. I'd give you you a deception roll with your casting stat as the stat against the viewer's insight.

[Segev]

Calling shenanigans on this one since it can't shed light. That would be a dead giveaway that it's fake. Also, many DMs say the illusion can't be moving. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but a non-moving fire is also a dead giveaway.It depends on the DM, certainly. I would argue that despite not shedding light, it can look like it does, possibly being visible in the dark anyway (possibly not), but working at least as well as a really well-done painting that makes it look like a lamp is really glowing.

If the DM says objects can't move, then yeah, you're screwed.

I don't recall if shrink item made it into 5e, nor what it's wording is if it did. In 3e and 2e and 1e, however, it specifically allowed you to shrink "camp fire" as an object. Obviously, this has no bearing on whether 5e shares that interpretation of what constitutes an "object," but it does color my own interpretations.





This one's sort of shenanigans again. It's an illusion of an object. Once it's dead, a creature is an object, i.e. a dead body. I think it's probably fine and I would allow a totally-still creature that could maybe be a statue since I can't see any real distinction between an object and a very still creature. It would, of course, only be 5 ft tall max, so a dwarf for sure, an elf probably, and even some humans are that short. Alternatively, you could have it in a crouching position.Truth be told, if a DM was being persnickety about "a shadowy figure" being impossible, I'd have it be a statue, manikin, or wooden "standee" (like the cardboard things you see of famous characters, often serving as a sort of kiosk for a specially-advertised item). Put that in shadows, and it will do well enough. It not being a creature is WHY I put it in shadows to begin with.



If you want to be strict per the RAW, the spell says an object but doesn't say it can't move at all.I tend to agree with this interpretation, because frankly, a "clock" is an object, and there's no reason you couldn't have an illusion of one with a swinging pendulum. Or a bush with rustling leaves.