Rate my group's party?

[Hollysword]

My group has a party of two. These are the characters and their basic stats:

STR 10 DEX 12 CON 8 INT 14 WIS 15 CHA 16
STR 17 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 12 CHA 14

Any comments? Predictions?

The cleric insists that having a low CON is what she needs to fit the character in mind. Meanwhile the paladin just want to be as tanky as he can get.

[Ninja_Prawn]

My group has a party of two. These are the characters and their basic stats:

STR 10 DEX 12 CON 8 INT 14 WIS 15 CHA 16
STR 17 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 12 CHA 14

Any comments? Predictions?

The cleric insists that having a low CON is what she needs to fit the character in mind. Meanwhile the paladin just want to be as tanky as he can get.

My gut instinct is that individual survivability is more important in smaller groups, as there are fewer places to hide. That cleric looks very vulnerable - her AC will never be great (Barkskin might actually come in handy, if she can get it) and she has a negative Con modifier... Unless you intend to run a more social campaign, the cleric should probably get a good life insurance policy. Any reason why she wanted more Cha than Wis? That's not a huge problem, but for the sake of one point, this seems like a case where picking the 'more optimal' option isn't a sin.

The paladin looks pretty standard.

[Hollysword]

My gut instinct is that individual survivability is more important in smaller groups, as there are fewer places to hide. That cleric looks very vulnerable - her AC will never be great (Barkskin might actually come in handy, if she can get it) and she has a negative Con modifier... Unless you intend to run a more social campaign, the cleric should probably get a good life insurance policy. Any reason why she wanted more Cha than Wis? That's not a huge problem, but for the sake of one point, this seems like a case where picking the 'more optimal' option isn't a sin.

The paladin looks pretty standard.

The cleric is actually willing to sacrifice some move speed to wear heavy armor (cleric of life, can wear heavy). She has as much AC as the paladin. Also, that huge CHA is from racial bonus. By raw stats, she put the 15 (best) on WIS.

[Gastronomie]

My rating is "whatever the player wants to use is the best choice for him/her, and we have no right to force our opinions or optimized builds upon them".

Honestly, it's not like D&D charactersare gonna be contestants in the Olympics. No need to be as strong as possible.

[Fumble Jack]

The cleric is actually willing to sacrifice some move speed to wear heavy armor (cleric of life, can wear heavy). She has as much AC as the paladin. Also, that huge CHA is from racial bonus. By raw stats, she put the 15 (best) on WIS.

Stat wise interesting, what devotion is the Dragonborn Paladin going for?Should be an interesting dynamic between the two and wherever they go pending on how common their species are in your setting. By the book their uncommon. Stat wise I agree with Ninja_Prawn. Even with the heavy armor boost to AC, I feel the cleric still is vulnerable to anything that nets advantage on them. For example anything with pack tactics.

[Hollysword]

The dragonborn is planning to go Green Knight, Oath of the Ancients. The two of them live in a wood elf village (around 90% wood elves), in a forest. My setting is 'generic', so the commons are Dwarves, Elves, Halflings and Humans as usual.

[Sir cryosin]

ThatS a smart move for the paladin and the cleric is going to hate aoe's a fireball can take the cleric out with one hit. A lv6 cleric with no or negative modifier maximum hit points is 48. A fireball 3rd lv max damge is 48. I understand as DM's we should let players build there characters. But we don't want to kill there character by throwing something they should be able to handle. But ends up killing them.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Honestly, it's not like D&D characters are gonna be contestants in the Olympics.

Well, you say that... :smallwink:

[CursedRhubarb]

Having the cleric switch the Con and Cha stats might be something to look into. Racial boost will put Cha at 10 so no negative to worry about and it gives some Con so health won't be dangerously low. Also makes it so she won't be almost guaranteed to fail and checks or saves against Con effects like poisons, diseases, petrification, and lots of undead have con save attacks with very nasty effects if failed.

[MaxWilson]

I predict that the cleric will be tempted by the Dark Side and will eventually multiclass to Warlock.

[clash]

ThatS a smart move for the paladin and the cleric is going to hate aoe's a fireball can take the cleric out with one hit. A lv6 cleric with no or negative modifier maximum hit points is 48. A fireball 3rd lv max damge is 48. I understand as DM's we should let players build there characters. But we don't want to kill there character by throwing something they should be able to handle. But ends up killing them.

Honestly I think the important thing here is not to compensate for the players stats. Talk to them, tell them about some of the weaknesses of the build. If that is the concept they want to play let them roll with it, but let them come up with ways to shore up their weaknesses. Maybe the cleric learns that she has to fight smart to avoid getting hit. Maybe she decides to take Shield master to survive fireballs, and the player might do just fine. I play a wizard with 10 ac. Every attack will hit him normally, so I dont put myself in places where I will get hit or I cast spells to shore up my defenses. Too many close calls with death will do that. The point warn them their concept has weaknesses, but let them play it and dont adjust the difficulty so nothing will ever kill them because they have low hp. Let them take the hits and see how they respond. If they find their character is unconscious in the first round of every fight and they want to change it, then let them change it.

[MrFahrenheit]

I'd rate this party 10/10. The extra spells the tiefling gets provides a nice angle for a life cleric.

So what if wis isn't starting at 16+? Many players who get the high starting bonus still take feats at 4 or 8, delaying till level 12 at earliest the ASI boost to 20 (non-fighter or rogue, of course).

Since both party members have good charisma scores, a small party game like this may see more time spent RPing than in combat anyhow. It's not all about DPR.

[Sir cryosin]

I dont tell a player to put something were they don't want it. But I do let them know what I would do and what could be really bad for them. A dragon just needs to spit on that cleric and it a instant kill.

[Waazraath]

In my experience, the game becomes quickly more lethal with less than four players. I've played in / DM'd for several party's of three, and once somebody goes down it's simply much harder. Only 2/3rd of the party still standing with a few unlucky rolls, compared with 3/4 or 4/5.

Of course, this is rather obvious, but with this in mind, looking at a party of only two, with one of them with a negative constitution modifier.... ai ai ai :smalleek: Best of luck, but it can go ugly very quickly.

[D.U.P.A.]

Not only HP, speed is also a problem, with heavy armor with not enough Str is a big handicap too, the cleric has problem with positioning and escaping, cannot even hide properly because of heavy armor and low Dex.

[Hollysword]

The tiefling cleric player insists having a low CON is how she pictures her character. She has no plans on going melee anyway. She's going to stay back behind the paladin where it's safe and she doesn't have to move much.

[Reaper34]

As stated above, the cleric is a bit squishy. the low con might fit for the character design, but a bit more dex or str might have been a better choice than int. that being said it's his character. if it works at the table, then let him play it the way he likes to play it. though depending on the setting, the player's experience, and a few other factors i'd decide how hard I as the dm would try to keep that character alive. characters are never made wrong, however some do die. sometimes a lot.

[Hollysword]

As stated above, the cleric is a bit squishy. the low con might fit for the character design, but a bit more dex or str might have been a better choice than int. that being said it's his character. if it works at the table, then let him play it the way he likes to play it. though depending on the setting, the player's experience, and a few other factors i'd decide how hard I as the dm would try to keep that character alive. characters are never made wrong, however some do die. sometimes a lot.

Swapping DEX and INT wouldn't make a difference though. From 12 DEX 14 INT to 13 DEX 13 INT. End up losing a modifier to INT.

[Reaper34]

Swapping DEX and INT wouldn't make a difference though. From 12 DEX 14 INT to 13 DEX 13 INT. End up losing a modifier to INT.

sorry forgot the race mods for tieflings. if the character works for him and the campaign. rock on.

[djreynolds]

Unless you are dwarf, you must have a 15 in strength to wear heavy armor.

I believe in concept over everything, its how cool characters are made. Who knows what you will find or how you roll and the enemy does not?

You can live on sacred flame as your go to everything, since it is a save or suck spell you can even use it in melee without disadvantage and from range. So you can dump the mace. Why use shillelagh when you can just sacred flame them? You can worry about gaining and using shillelagh 8th level on when you get extra damage on your strike or just hang with sacred flame.

Half plate and 12 dex is a 16 AC and an 18 with a shield, so not bad as good as chainmail and shield, so save up your money.

Now a multiclass of warlock could get you hex, and that would be cool with sacred flame. Radiant and necrotic strikes.

Be prepared to have your concentration spells on hex or conjure spells.

What you need is a plump Halfling rogue in your party.

[Hollysword]

Unless you are dwarf, you must have a 15 in strength to wear heavy armor.

Technically you don't NEED that strength to wear the armor. You just get slowed down if you're not strong enough. Given her rather frail body, the tiefling is opting for armor over mobility to keep her safe.

[Sir cryosin]

At are table we have a suggestion when you sit down to play have two character sheets the one your playing and a back up just in case yours die. You might want to have her make a second character. I wouldn't be worry about melee I would worry about casters and they can easily hit her no matter how far back she is.

[Giant2005]

I think the stats look good, but the class choices themselves are imperfect.
When there are only two of you, you really want to cover as many bases between you as possible. Clerics and Paladins have too much overlap. Having said that, the stats are good - the Cleric is obviously focusing more on the mental side of things while the Paladin is covering the physical. Between them, they should be reasonably covered.
It is just kind of a shame that the Cleric is the one of the two that is focusing more on Charisma. I'd think they would be better served if the Paladin sacrificed a little bit of his physical capabilities so he could pick up Charisma duty, and the Cleric could then put some more into Int/Wis.

[Waazraath]

The tiefling cleric player insists having a low CON is how she pictures her character. She has no plans on going melee anyway. She's going to stay back behind the paladin where it's safe and she doesn't have to move much.

Fair enough, of course... the players concept is the most important. But it's a shame when somebody puts a lot of effort in a character, only to see it die in the first or second session.

I don't know how sessions at your table go, but in my experience, in melee combat there often is no option 'not to go melee'; when surrounded, outnumbered, surprised, that lonely other party member won't be able to shield that char from all melee attacks, unless all combats take place in a 5 feet corridor, without any attack from behind, ever. Not to mention ranged attacks or spell attacks.

If this is the party, I'd seriously look into ways to get stuff like stealth, strong mobility, or mercenaries to compensate for this weakness in party setup.

[Giant2005]

If you are worried about the Cleric's survival, just have her dip three levels of Wizard. A natural 20 AC combined with the Shield spell, Blur, and Absorb Elements will make her tanky enough regardless of her Con. If the Paladin will be reaching level 7 in a hurry, then Absorb Elements wouldn't even be necessary, so she could get the other two spells from 3 Sorc levels if that is preferable.
If you are using homebrew, then you might even be able to convince her to replace Cleric with a Favored Soul or Theurgy Wizard (with a level of Fighter for Heavy Armor Proficiency); both of which (particularly the Wizard) would be better for the group and would allow her to get the tools needed to exist with only a single level dip (1 fighter vs 3 Wiz or Sorc).