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MandibleBones
2007-07-06, 07:06 PM
I'm looking for a PrC that counts as fighter levels for purposes of feat selection - for that matter, ANYTHING that lets me count PrC levels as fighter levels for feat selection would be great. Anyone?

Edit: Other, of course, than "more fighter."

Edit 2: "Dude ftr sux take wizzard or clrc pls" is also unwelcome.

Edit 3: What I mean, as explained below, is for feat eligability - i.e. the ability to qualify for fighter-only feats.

SilverClawShift
2007-07-06, 07:17 PM
Um, hmm. I don't think you're going to find a class that says "Continues gaining bonus feats as a fighter"

You might find classes that grant bonus feats, maybe even from the fighter bonus feat selection list, but not one that 'progresses you as a fighter'.

It's not just a smartass answer, it's the correct one. If you want a class that increases your effective-fighter-level, you're looking at fighter o_O.

That said, there's a 3 level PRC called the Uncanny Trickster, which when gaining levels "Continues class progression", which effectively can count for any class. I think that class would get you fighter bonus feat levels, or you could at least argue it to make it happen.
But it's only three levels.

Okay, you got an answer, now you have to give one.

Why?

I mean, why are you concerned with gaining fighter bonus feats but not with actually being a fighter? Why look for a prestige class that gives you feats? I'm dying to know.

Starsinger
2007-07-06, 07:21 PM
I don't think he wants to continue gaining bonus feats, as much as he wants to qualify for feats that require X fighter levels, like Weapon Specialization. I think Warblades count as fighters for such things, but that's a base class.

Nebo_
2007-07-06, 07:23 PM
Warblade levels count as fighter levels for feat selection, at a 2 penalty.

ZeroNumerous
2007-07-06, 07:24 PM
Once you hit Fighter 8 you're more or less done. It'd be fairly hard to make it that high as a straight Fighter, but there you go. My suggestion is to take levels of Warblade instead, as that will let you add half your fighter level to your Warblade levels to determine IL, as well as let you count them as fighter levels -2.

Douglas
2007-07-06, 07:27 PM
Warblade X counts as Fighter X-2 for feat prereqs. Legacy Champion advances "class features" for (I think) 7 of its 10 levels. The Daring Warrior feat from Complete Scoundrel makes Swashbuckler levels stack with Fighter for prereqs, but you have to already have Weapon Specialization to take it. That's all I know of.

Kalirren
2007-07-06, 07:29 PM
Levels in the PrC Justice of Weald and Woe (Heroes of Horror 57?) I think get treated as if they were fighter levels for the purpose of their bonus feats, but it's essentially an elven archer PrC (and it's not horribly strong, either.) Given the fact that the wording exists, I'd probably houserule it in a more adaptable fashion.

MandibleBones
2007-07-06, 07:30 PM
I don't think he wants to continue gaining bonus feats, as much as he wants to qualify for feats that require X fighter levels, like Weapon Specialization. I think Warblades count as fighters for such things, but that's a base class.

Yes, that's exactly it.


Once you hit Fighter 8 you're more or less done.

Not if you're using PHB II - that 18th-level feat is useful.

And the purpose of making a fighter, over a warblade, is to be less complicated. I enjoy playing complicated-mechanic characters (wizards, clerics, warblades), but I'm looking for something I don't have to think too much about.

ZeroNumerous
2007-07-06, 07:40 PM
If you're just aiming for something you don't have to think about..

Fighter 20 using a charge build and a reach weapon. Just keep charging at everything, no thought required.

MandibleBones
2007-07-06, 07:42 PM
Well, I suppose "minimal thought" would be the better. A one-trick pony probably wouldn't make it to level 20 anyway.

ZeroNumerous
2007-07-06, 07:47 PM
You'd be amazed at the effectiveness of a one-trick pony when no one survives the trick. Makes sure that no one knows about your one-trick to begin with.

Bassetking
2007-07-06, 08:26 PM
A Charge-Beast with either a reach weapon or a Spiked Chain is one of the singly most brutally effective fighter builds. The mechanic is simple, the build can be continued and modified almost all of the way through 20, and it NEVER stops being effective. The only things that you'll be worrying about with this build is squads of mooks. In a Mook-squad situation, though, you'll likely want to let the wizard do his thing.

Seriously, Charge-builds. Fun for the whole Family.

Droodle
2007-07-06, 08:47 PM
The only things that you'll be worrying about with this build is squads of mooks. In a Mook-squad situation, though, you'll likely want to let the wizard do his thing. If you are building your charger with (mostly) fighter levels, squads of mooks shouldn't be a problem either. You've already got power attack. You probably have cleave. If you are mostly using fighter levels, you should have more than enough feats left over for spring attack, bounding assault, and rapid blitz, so you can make a (near) full attack, get away, and charge again. While you're at it, you might as well nab elusive target, too. With fighter levels, you have plenty of feats.

Bassetking
2007-07-06, 08:54 PM
If you are building your charger with (mostly) fighter levels, squads of mooks shouldn't be a problem either. You've already got power attack. You probably have cleave. If you are mostly using fighter levels, you should have more than enough feats left over for spring attack, bounding assault, and rapid blitz, so you can make a (near) full attack, get away, and charge again. While you're at it, you might as well nab elusive target, too. With fighter levels, you have plenty of feats.

Spring Attack is a trap. Do not fall for its siren song.

Stay true to the path of the Charge-Multiplier, my son. Power Attack. Leap-Attack. Shock Trooper. Orcish Race and Heedless Charge. These are the true and holy tenets of the charge-build.

With either your Reach weapon, or your chain, pick up Improved Trip. Worth picking up both it and its bigger, badder form.

EDIT: While I realize it is not what the OP was asking for, I.E. a full-fighter-feat build, a one-level Dip into Lion Totem Barbarian gives you Pounce, and allows a full-attack at the end of a charge. This alone turns an already savage build into a beast of dreams and nightmares.

Callix
2007-07-06, 09:01 PM
Even in Mook-horde situations, reach weapons, Combat Reflexes (a must in spiky builds) and Great Cleave (you have more than enough feats to burn) can let you carve through an army. An Unending Charge or whatever it is weapon makes this truly awesome. Try a potion of Enlarge Person and a spiked chain for the ability to take out 96 kobolds in one round.

Droodle
2007-07-06, 09:53 PM
Spring Attack is a trap. Do not fall for its siren song.

Stay true to the path of the Charge-Multiplier, my son. Power Attack. Leap-Attack. Shock Trooper. Orcish Race and Heedless Charge. These are the true and holy tenets of the charge-build.
I agree with you.......if you don't have 347 feats to burn like a high level fighter does. After you've taken all your charging feats, you've got to do something with the leftover feats. While it takes a lot of feats to get to the point where you can hit someone 3 times after a charge and take a move action, you have plenty left over to make it work. As long as you have feats to burn, the spring attack pipeline isn't bad.

NEO|Phyte
2007-07-06, 10:07 PM
I'm looking for a PrC that counts as fighter levels for purposes of feat selection - for that matter, ANYTHING that lets me count PrC levels as fighter levels for feat selection would be great. Anyone?

Warblade (base class, already said at least once in the thread)
Bloodstorm Blade (Prestige class, didn't notice it in my first read through the thread)
Both are treated as/stack with fighter levels (with a -2 penalty), AND let you adjust weapon-specific feats with an hour of practice.

Both are found in Tome of Battle

MandibleBones
2007-07-07, 10:24 AM
That said, there's a 3 level PRC called the Uncanny Trickster, which when gaining levels "Continues class progression"


Levels in the PrC Justice of Weald and Woe (Heroes of Horror 57?) I think get treated as if they were fighter levels for the purpose of their bonus feats


Bloodstorm Blade (Prestige class, didn't notice it in my first read through the thread)

I'll take a look at these now that I'm back home amongst my books - thanks!


A Charge-Beast with either a reach weapon or a Spiked Chain is one of the singly most brutally effective fighter builds.

It'd have to be a reach weapon - my DM has moral qualms with the spiked cheese. I'll take a look at it, but I'm still not thrilled with the idea of a one-trick-wonder.


While I realize it is not what the OP was asking for, I.E. a full-fighter-feat build, a one-level Dip into Lion Totem Barbarian gives you Pounce, and allows a full-attack at the end of a charge.

Ooh! Shiny... a distinct possibility, but one that carries the same problem as Warblade - less feat eligability.

Thanks everyone who's responded so far. I know few people on these boards like the fighter :smallwink:

Fax Celestis
2007-07-07, 10:36 AM
Legacy Champion (WoL) and Uncanny Trickster (CScn) both have "+1 level of existing class features": the former gets it for 8/10 levels, and the latter gets it 2/3. Also, the Daring Warrior feat in CScn allows Swashbuckler levels to stack with Fighter levels for the purposes of qualifying for Fighter-only feats, and also progresses the Swashbuckler's Grace ability and dodge bonus to AC. In a similar vein, Martial Stalker (same book) does the same thing with Ninja in regards to qualifying for Fighter feats, but progresses Ki Pool and AC bonus instead of Grace and Dodge AC.

ZeroNumerous
2007-07-07, 12:08 PM
It'd have to be a reach weapon - my DM has moral qualms with the spiked cheese. I'll take a look at it, but I'm still not thrilled with the idea of a one-trick-wonder.

Sadly enough.. You basically signed yourself up for being the one-trick-wonder when you picked Fighter. It's either "hit it until it dies", "charge and one-shot the dragon", or "I keep tripping him".

I still suggest taking a 1 level dip into Warblade late-game for weapon aptitude and some maneuvers.

Something like this might be good:

Fighter 9/Uncanny Trickster 3/Fighter+7/Warblade 1.

Thats Fighter "level" 18, enough to get that PHBII feat. And you get access to that Fighter 18 feat. My suggestions for skill tricks(and why I delayed Uncanny Trickster so long) is Spot the Weak Point and Never Outnumbered. 10 foot intimidate keeps people away from you, a ranseur or greatspear gives you 10 foot reach. Warblade gives you access to an IL of 9, or 4th level maneuvers/stances. That should be plenty not to qualify as a one-trick-pony, even if you focus on charging.

Quietus
2007-07-07, 12:51 PM
I agree with you.......if you don't have 347 feats to burn like a high level fighter does. After you've taken all your charging feats, you've got to do something with the leftover feats. While it takes a lot of feats to get to the point where you can hit someone 3 times after a charge and take a move action, you have plenty left over to make it work. As long as you have feats to burn, the spring attack pipeline isn't bad.

Pretty sure it doesn't work that way. Spring attack lets you make an attack at any point during a move action. A charge, however, is a full-round action on its own, not an attack at the end of a double move.

Droodle
2007-07-07, 03:38 PM
Pretty sure it doesn't work that way. Spring attack lets you make an attack at any point during a move action. A charge, however, is a full-round action on its own, not an attack at the end of a double move.I'm referring to the following round, actually. I'm assuming that the horde of mooks are all in more or less the same spot and the fighter won't be able to charge again in round two (at least not without taking several attacks of opportunity himself). Since a reach fighting charger is optimized for making attacks of opportunity (What reach fighter isn't? After all, it only takes one feat to get there.) and charging, making full attacks isn't really playing to its strengths. Therefore, I'm suggesting that you open with a charge,follow up with a spring attack, and put some distance between yourself and your opponent(s). If the enemy is dumb enough to pursue, you then take your attacks of opportunity, spring attack, and back away again. If the enemies do not follow, then it's time to charge again.

MandibleBones
2007-07-07, 03:45 PM
Thats Fighter "level" 18, enough to get that PHBII feat. And you get access to that Fighter 18 feat. My suggestions for skill tricks(and why I delayed Uncanny Trickster so long) is Spot the Weak Point and Never Outnumbered. 10 foot intimidate keeps people away from you, a ranseur or greatspear gives you 10 foot reach. Warblade gives you access to an IL of 9, or 4th level maneuvers/stances. That should be plenty not to qualify as a one-trick-pony, even if you focus on charging.

That's the best suggestion yet - I think I'll take it. Thanks, everyone!