Am I being too restrictive on my PC?

[trikkydik]

This is regarding the psionic power "energy adaptation"

(The power grants 30 points of absorption for ALL energy types.)

I'm thinking about restricting this spell to just 1 energy type but I don't know if I'm being unreasonable.

The campaign only has 2 players.
They're level 14 gestalted characters.
Psion(telepath)/monk
Rogue/wizard

My thought process is this: if he casts energy adaptation ill just end up using other forms of damage instead. Which limits my creativity. i don't like dealing a PC more than 50 points of damage on one shot, so simply making more energy damage is out of the question.

Any Feedback is appreciated. Thanks guys.

[erok0809]

Energy Adaptation, Specified (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyAdaptationSpecified.htm) already exists. It's a level 2 power, as opposed to a level 4 power.

Personally, I wouldn't restrict it, but I like when PCs are strong and can thwart me with relative ease. it tends to make them feel good, in my experience. I can just challenge them in other ways anyway, if the game is getting too easy.

[The Glyphstone]

You can always just use non-energy damage, as well.

[LTwerewolf]

At level 14, the ability to avoid damage altogether is far stronger than taking off the top 30. Really 30 damage at 14 is nothing at mid op and above. I wouldn't restrict it at all. With 4th level powers they could be doing so much more than that.



My thought process is this: if he casts energy adaptation ill just end up using other forms of damage instead. Which limits my creativity.

If you don't like your pcs metagaming, you need to hold yourself to the same standard. Are the npcs going to know what kind of energy he's resistant to? If not, it's pretty cheap to simply bypass it. It's like telling someone they can eat at the buffet, and then making sure there's no food in the buffet. It's ok if your pcs can do cool things. It's what they like.



i don't like dealing a PC more than 50 points of damage on one shot, so simply making more energy damage is out of the question.



This is entirely a personal problem that you may want to be cognizant of. Your players can very easily feel differently. I think there's something here you're missing. As a dm you have the right to run the game you want to run. The thing I think you're missing is that the game you want to run is not necessarily the game they want to play. You seem to have an issue with mid to high level things when you're behind the dm screen. That's ok. You don't have to like the higher aspect of the game. But there's something for that called E6. I suggest you check it out.

[Gallowglass]

This is regarding the psionic power "energy adaptation"

(The power grants 30 points of absorption for ALL energy types.)

I'm thinking about restricting this spell to just 1 energy type but I don't know if I'm being unreasonable.

The campaign only has 2 players.
They're level 14 gestalted characters.
Psion(telepath)/monk
Rogue/wizard

My thought process is this: if he casts energy adaptation ill just end up using other forms of damage instead. Which limits my creativity. i don't like dealing a PC more than 50 points of damage on one shot, so simply making more energy damage is out of the question.

Any Feedback is appreciated. Thanks guys.

Yes you are being to restrictive. There is a 2nd level power AND a second level wizard spell that already gives you protection from 1 of the 5 energy forms. And a 3rd level wizard spell that lets you hit everybody with it instead of just one guy.

Making a 4th level power do the same thing is not good. If you must then just tell your PC that you are removing the 4th level power so he can pick a new power and he can stick to using the 2nd level power one energy type at a time.

Running a gestalt game at 14th level I find it fascinating that THIS is the most disruptive thing you've come across so far.

[Malimar]

Yes.

Energy adaptation is a fourth-level power, which means it uses up a precious fourth-level power known, and also it costs a bit more than twice as many power points as a second-level power. Compare to the 2nd-level resist energy. If you reduce energy adaptation to only one energy type, you should also reduce it to at most a 2nd level power. At which point you've just made energy adaptation, specified, so just make him take that and ban regular energy adaptation instead.

[Dragolord]

If every combat is between the PCs and enemies which don't use energy damage, even if they had no way of knowing that he's almost immune to them, then that would be restrictive. If you aren't using them anyway, what does the number of energy types he's resistant to matter?

[Troacctid]

Yes, you are being too restrictive. The power is fair as-is. Frankly, I would rarely if ever take it over the lower-level version anyway—it's rare enough to need multiple types of energy resistance at once that I'd usually rather save PP instead, especially since the lower cost makes it easier to augment.

[Big Fau]

My thought process is this: if he casts energy adaptation ill just end up using other forms of damage instead. Which limits my creativity. i don't like dealing a PC more than 50 points of damage on one shot, so simply making more energy damage is out of the question.

It doesn't protect from Force damage, so Magic Missile and Orb of Force just plain don't care about it. And 30 points at 14th level is just meaningless. You're holding back by not going over 50 damage; some enemies need to deal a ton of damage in a single round to be a viable threat.

There are also other methods of attacking the Psion/Monk without just throwing damage at his face. If we had his (and possibly the party's) stats+powers list then we could provide you with a number of encounters to throw at them.

[BowStreetRunner]

I think you need to look at this problem the other way around. If Energy Adaptation is causing your Monsters and NPCs problems, then you probably aren't optimizing them enough to keep up with some of the PCs. You need to start building them to be able to break the 30 point threshold in your future encounters.

[Gallowglass]

Yes, you are being too restrictive. The power is fair as-is. Frankly, I would rarely if ever take it over the lower-level version anyway—it's rare enough to need multiple types of energy resistance at once that I'd usually rather save PP instead, especially since the lower cost makes it easier to augment.

I was wondering that myself. I guess he's throwing spellcasters at the PCs? That's the only way I can imagine a normal encounter lobbing multiple energy types at the PCS on a consistent basis. Most encounter building I've seen involves "You are facing the air-pirates of Enzino with their lightning guns!" or "The Fire Salamanders from the Fell forge attack!" where, you know, you throw on resist energy electricity or fire first thing...

[trikkydik]

i didn't know this would be such a unanimous "You suck!" decision.
And as offended as i want to be, i cant ignore the fact that EVERYONE said yes. And i appreciate the feedback, for the most part.

But here we go:



Energy Adaptation, Specified (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyAdaptationSpecified.htm) already exists. It's a level 2 power, as opposed to a level 4 power.
My problem was never with the level 2 version, as i mentioned in my initial post, its the fact that he is absorbing 30 points of ALL ENERGY DAMAGE.

Personally, I wouldn't restrict it, but I like when PCs are strong and can thwart me with relative ease. it tends to make them feel good, in my experience. I can just challenge them in other ways anyway, if the game is getting too easy.
i don't know how much experience you have with DMing gestalted characters, but these guys would probably destroy your whole campaign with ease.


You can always just use non-energy damage, as well.
Did you even read my post?
My thought process is this: if he casts energy adaptation ill just end up using other forms of damage instead. Which limits my creativity.


At level 14, the ability to avoid damage altogether is far stronger than taking off the top 30. Really 30 damage at 14 is nothing at mid op and above. I wouldn't restrict it at all. With 4th level powers they could be doing so much more than that.
I don't know what kind of campaign you run, but dealing 80 points of damage to a character in one shot is something I've never seen. especially considering 50 points of damage in one attack is instant death if the player fails a FORT DC15.
And you redirected my topic to "They could be doing so much more." you haven't considered that THEY ARE doing much more, this energy absorption is just the icing on the cake.


If you don't like your pcs metagaming, you need to hold yourself to the same standard. Are the npcs going to know what kind of energy he's resistant to? If not, it's pretty cheap to simply bypass it. It's like telling someone they can eat at the buffet, and then making sure there's no food in the buffet. It's ok if your pcs can do cool things. It's what they like. Where did you get meta-gaming from?



This is entirely a personal problem that you may want to be cognizant of. Your players can very easily feel differently. I think there's something here you're missing. As a dm you have the right to run the game you want to run. The thing I think you're missing is that the game you want to run is not necessarily the game they want to play. You seem to have an issue with mid to high level things when you're behind the dm screen. That's ok. You don't have to like the higher aspect of the game. But there's something for that called E6. I suggest you check it out. It's the comments like these that make it very difficult to consider your feedback seriously. you know nothing about the campaign other than the fact that im not a fan of a PC absorbing 30 points of all types of energy damage. DOUCHE


Yes you are being to restrictive. There is a 2nd level power AND a second level wizard spell that already gives you protection from 1 of the 5 energy forms. And a 3rd level wizard spell that lets you hit everybody with it instead of just one guy.Making a 4th level power do the same thing is not good. If you must then just tell your PC that you are removing the 4th level power so he can pick a new power and he can stick to using the 2nd level power one energy type at a time. That is exactly what i suggested. so you agree with me then? im confused by you telling me "Yes youre being restrictive" then telling me to outright ban the power.


Running a gestalt game at 14th level I find it fascinating that THIS is the most disruptive thing you've come across so far. Lol definitely not the most difficult aspect of a gestalted campaign, but its current and needs to be addressed. Thank you.


Yes.

Energy adaptation is a fourth-level power, which means it uses up a precious fourth-level power known, and also it costs a bit more than twice as many power points as a second-level power. Compare to the 2nd-level resist energy. If you reduce energy adaptation to only one energy type, you should also reduce it to at most a 2nd level power. At which point you've just made energy adaptation, specified, so just make him take that and ban regular energy adaptation instead.

Again im confused, you said "yes", but then suggested i just ban the power.


If every combat is between the PCs and enemies which don't use energy damage, even if they had no way of knowing that he's almost immune to them, then that would be restrictive. If you aren't using them anyway, what does the number of energy types he's resistant to matter?
I'm really trying to be humble here, but this comment indicates you didn't even read the original post.

My thought process is this: if he casts energy adaptation ill just end up using other forms of damage instead. Which limits my creativity.


Yes, you are being too restrictive. The power is fair as-is. Frankly, I would rarely if ever take it over the lower-level version anyway—it's rare enough to need multiple types of energy resistance at once that I'd usually rather save PP instead, especially since the lower cost makes it easier to augment.

are you aware that the power lasts for 10 minutes per level? because i would ALWAYS use that power at the beginning of every session. but i appreciate your honesty, makes me think about my player's reaction if i tell him "that power you like so much. Can't use it"
So i honestly do appreciate this comment, because it made me think about his perspective.


It doesn't protect from Force damage, so Magic Missile and Orb of Force just plain don't care about it. And 30 points at 14th level is just meaningless. You're holding back by not going over 50 damage; some enemies need to deal a ton of damage in a single round to be a viable threat.

There are also other methods of attacking the Psion/Monk without just throwing damage at his face. If we had his (and possibly the party's) stats+powers list then we could provide you with a number of encounters to throw at them. i like this feedback, mostly lol. Because you slapped me in the face, but also suggested a real solution i could use. and this i love, and i will take you up on this offer.
The telepath/monks stats are insanely high. his AC is about 30, and so is the spell save DC. because hes gestalted he has insanely high reflex and will saves.
The rogue/wizard(illusionist) also has insanely high stats, and he has acrobatic strike, so he can apply his sneak attack anytime he catches an opponent flat footed, which is often.

The monks favorite attacks are flurry of blows, telekinetic maneuver, regular trip attacks, flight, absorbing 30 points of all energy damage, dimension door (as a swift action), dimension twister (which is essentially baleful dimension door), and his last but not least favorite attack is DOMINATE. he uses schism too, and almost every other round dominates a creature.

The rogue illusionist uses this spell which creates duplicates of himself, he uses acrobatic attack to land sneak attacks during normal combat, he can use shadow evocation and shadow summon, so he can essentially cast any evocation/conjuration spell, he can use level 0 and 1 illusion spells as a free action.

These characters are fun, and battles are insanely crazy. So i would love any suggestions for challenges.


I was wondering that myself. I guess he's throwing spellcasters at the PCs? That's the only way I can imagine a normal encounter lobbing multiple energy types at the PCS on a consistent basis. Most encounter building I've seen involves "You are facing the air-pirates of Enzino with their lightning guns!" or "The Fire Salamanders from the Fell forge attack!" where, you know, you throw on resist energy electricity or fire first thing...

the last session we had a tournament in which the 2 PC's took on 2 NPC's i made.

The hero's/PC's: telepath/monk, rogue/illusionist
The enemies/NPC's: bloodline water mage, demon hunter.

The reason the monks energy adaptation became so effective is because i made the tournament platform change every 1d4 rounds. Which added an element to the environment that was a lot of fun, the PC's explicitly expressed love for the tournament arena changes. But the monk didn't have to worry about taking fire damage from the arena, because it only dealt 5d6 damage. which was almost always less than 30.

The ultimate reasoning behind this post is because the spell lasts for 140 minutes, which is a whole session. and it takes away from the game, rather than adding to it. (in my opinion.) but it seems like everyone here disagrees, so i have no choice but to accept the votes and let him keep the annoying spell.

Again thanks to most of you guys for telling me what i needed to hear, not wanted to hear.

[OldTrees1]

-snip-

I don't know what kind of campaign you run, but dealing 80 points of damage to a character in one shot is something I've never seen. especially considering 50 points of damage in one attack is instant death if the player fails a FORT DC15.
And you redirected my topic to "They could be doing so much more." you haven't considered that THEY ARE doing much more, this energy absorption is just the icing on the cake.

-snip-

The reason the monks energy adaptation became so effective is because i made the tournament platform change every 1d4 rounds. Which added an element to the environment that was a lot of fun, the PC's explicitly expressed love for the tournament arena changes. But the monk didn't have to worry about taking fire damage from the arena, because it only dealt 5d6 damage. which was almost always less than 30.

The ultimate reasoning behind this post is because the spell lasts for 140 minutes, which is a whole session. and it takes away from the game, rather than adding to it. (in my opinion.) but it seems like everyone here disagrees, so i have no choice but to accept the votes and let him keep the annoying spell.

Again thanks to most of you guys for telling me what i needed to hear, not wanted to hear.

It sounds like you have a calibration issue. You have 2 reasons you want to keep down the damage PCs expect to face however the Psionic Power in question seems to be working on different assumptions.

However there is some good news:
1) Resistance is per round rather than per instance.
2) 2 instances of 25 damage seem more in line with your calibration than 1 instance of 50 damage.

For the most part everyone else is right that there is no need to try to restrict the power. However I will amend that by saying you should examine your calibration and see what you need to do as a DM you adapt WotC material to match your calibration or adapt your expectations to match WotC material calibrations.

Related: If an energy focused Evoker was casting a 4th level Resist 30 to all energy, would you have the same reaction? That particular power is themed as a psionic counterpart to an energy focused Evoker's protection spell.

[Necroticplague]

It sounds like you have a calibration issue. You have 2 reasons you want to keep down the damage PCs expect to face however the Psionic Power in question seems to be working on different assumptions.

However there is some good news:
1) Resistance is per round rather than per instance.
2) 2 instances of 25 damage seem more in line with your calibration than 1 instance of 50 damage.

O.k, i see this misconception keep popping up every once in a while, and have to ask for the source. After all, the Glossary, which contains the basic definition for game terms, has this to say on the topic.


resistance to energy

A creature with this special quality (extraordinary) ignores some damage of the indicated type each time it takes damage of that kind (commonly acid, cold, fire, or electricity). The entry indicates the amount and type of damage ignored. For example, a witchknife has resistance to fire 5, so it ignores the first 5 points of fire damage dealt to it anytime it takes fire damage.
Source: PHB, DMG, MM, MM3

[Big Fau]

i like this feedback, mostly lol. Because you slapped me in the face, but also suggested a real solution i could use. and this i love, and i will take you up on this offer.
The telepath/monks stats are insanely high. his AC is about 30, and so is the spell save DC. because hes gestalted he has insanely high reflex and will saves.
The rogue/wizard(illusionist) also has insanely high stats, and he has acrobatic strike, so he can apply his sneak attack anytime he catches an opponent flat footed, which is often.

AC 30 by level 14 is decent, but not spectacular. An issue to consider is that the average saves at that level are pretty bad: 13 Ref, 18 Will, low Touch AC. Focus more on spells that don't offer a saving throw or need an attack roll (Chain Missile, for example), or have the enemies stack a bunch of buffs to target his AC. A couple of decent-sized Skeletons with high HD backed up by a pair of Clerics (one of them using the Corpse Crafter feats) to threaten him. A Crusader//Incarnate (since it is Gestalt) with Thicket of Blades and Mage Slayer can prevent him from manifesting in melee and stop him from just running away, which can be very dangerous (incarnates can buff attack rolls into the stratosphere).

Illusionists are notoriously difficult to fight without True Seeing, and if something has that then the illusionist will have very little fun. Having some enemies with the Plant, Elemental, or Construct typing can help mitigate the sneak attack, as can the Fortification armor quality (just don't throw nothing but these at him). Things with Blindsense/Blindsight are the best bet to challenge him, as are Wraiths (supplemented by a caster).

Dispelling is also important. Buffs are vulnerable, and there are several ways to boost the CL check to make dispelling reliable (if inconsistent). Another thing to consider is antimagic: There's a couple of enemies in MM4 that can produce an AMF (one lasts a long time, the other only lasts for 1 round) and these will guarantee a small amount of panic.

The Mob template, from DMG2, can be used to really buff up a bunch of weaker enemies into a singular threat.


The monks favorite attacks are flurry of blows, telekinetic maneuver, regular trip attacks, flight, absorbing 30 points of all energy damage, dimension door (as a swift action), dimension twister (which is essentially baleful dimension door), and his last but not least favorite attack is DOMINATE. he uses schism too, and almost every other round dominates a creature.

Trip attacks are very bad against larger opponents (high probability of failure) or quadrupedal enemies. Dominate can be negated through the feat Willing Deformity (Madness) from either Exemplars of Evil, Elder Evils, or Heroes of Horror. Elder Evils also made a way to get bonus Vile feats without wasting feat slots, so this is a good option. Dominate should still be a decent option for him (let him gain control of a bunch of minions, then mass-Dispel it and have them mob him).

Teleport has a few counters (notably Anticipate Teleportation, a 3rd level spell that just utterly screws with it).


The rogue illusionist uses this spell which creates duplicates of himself, he uses acrobatic attack to land sneak attacks during normal combat, he can use shadow evocation and shadow summon, so he can essentially cast any evocation/conjuration spell, he can use level 0 and 1 illusion spells as a free action.

Mirror Image? Or something else? If its the former, it doesn't grant flanking or other forms of sneak attack-benefits. AoEs can immediately destroy the images without attack rolls. Shadow spells don't really help without serious optimization (blasting with Shadow Evocation is bad) and Shadow Conjuration is limited to summoning spells only (which can be countered via Dispel or just sheer numerical advantage.


The reason the monks energy adaptation became so effective is because i made the tournament platform change every 1d4 rounds. Which added an element to the environment that was a lot of fun, the PC's explicitly expressed love for the tournament arena changes. But the monk didn't have to worry about taking fire damage from the arena, because it only dealt 5d6 damage. which was almost always less than 30.

The ultimate reasoning behind this post is because the spell lasts for 140 minutes, which is a whole session. and it takes away from the game, rather than adding to it. (in my opinion.) but it seems like everyone here disagrees, so i have no choice but to accept the votes and let him keep the annoying spell.

Again thanks to most of you guys for telling me what i needed to hear, not wanted to hear.

This is something that needs to be addressed: The spacing of encounters can make buffs VERY powerful. Having a number of encounters in rapid succession is very different from having two encounters early in the day and three encounters in the evening. Psions have trouble keeping PP throughout long days, so consider 5 or even 6 encounters/day spread out by several hours of down-time.

I've seen several modules that just group a bunch of enemies into a single dungeon with no concept of delaying some of them to let buffs wear off (which is why Dispelling is so important in these encounters).

[Douglas]

You've stated repeatedly that the same resistance to a single energy type instead of all 5 would be fine. Why? When it applies, it's exactly the same effect, and it's often not hard to guess in advance which type you'll need, or simply to cast it 5 times.

[BowStreetRunner]

O.k, i see this misconception keep popping up every once in a while, and have to ask for the source. After all, the Glossary, which contains the basic definition for game terms, has this to say on the topic.

Note that the SRD definition of Resistance to Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#resistanceToEnergy) states the following: "A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type each round, but it does not have total immunity."

[OldTrees1]

O.k, i see this misconception keep popping up every once in a while, and have to ask for the source. After all, the Glossary, which contains the basic definition for game terms, has this to say on the topic.

I went to the SRD, to the Power in question, and clicked the "resistance" hyperlink. Here is what you will find


Resistance To Energy
A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type each round, but it does not have total immunity.

Perhaps the SRD is in error.

[Troacctid]

The Rules Compendium has the most up-to-date version of the rule.

A creature that has resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain energy type each time it takes damage of that type.

Each resistance is defined by what energy type it resists and how many points of damage are resisted. For instance, if a creature has resistance to fire 10, it can ignore the first 10 points of fire damage it takes from each attack.

[Zanos]

I already gave you my thoughts and some potential solutions in the other thread.



Where did you get meta-gaming from?
Got to comment on this, though. Imagine if you have a player that has immunity to fire, from any source. After he gets it, for some reason, no enemies in the game ever use fire damage again. You've essentially given your NPCs metagame knowledge about the PCs capabilities, and have decided to invalidate their immunity by just not ever deploying it.

There are ways for that to not be metagaming, like if there's a big event where the PC not getting burnt is important, or an enemy survives and tells the rest of his buds about the PCs abilities. But just not ever deploying something a PC is immune to again with no in universe justification? Seriously metagaming, and bad form to boot.

[Beheld]

I went to the SRD, to the Power in question, and clicked the "resistance" hyperlink. Here is what you will find



Perhaps the SRD is in error.

For the record, the SRD is very much in error. All three core rulebooks have a section that covers Energy Resistance. The PHB has the shortest section, and the least primacy, and it says the part above, that the SRD copies over.

The Monster Manual, says damage per time damage is taken, and the DMG, which has the longest and most in depth section, says the same. It's just that the SRD copied the PHB which was later acknowledged as mistaken (in the Rules Compendium, where I believe they make specific reference to the DMG and MM rules, and the flaw in the PHB.)

[The Glyphstone]

Supported by the fact that if you look at the spell version of Resist Energy, it specifies you get resistance versus each attack rather than per round. But the Energy Adaptation power just shortcuts by linking directly to the incorrect Resistance To Energy special ability.

[Theobod]

Regardless of the flak induced I have to say kudos are in order for coming here and asking and accepting the nigh unanimous advice presented, it shows a mature attitude and responsibility that is essential to a DM.
Good job.

[Dragolord]

I already gave you my thoughts and some potential solutions in the other thread.


Got to comment on this, though. Imagine if you have a player that has immunity to fire, from any source. After he gets it, for some reason, no enemies in the game ever use fire damage again. You've essentially given your NPCs metagame knowledge about the PCs capabilities, and have decided to invalidate their immunity by just not ever deploying it.

There are ways for that to not be metagaming, like if there's a big event where the PC not getting burnt is important, or an enemy survives and tells the rest of his buds about the PCs abilities. But just not ever deploying something a PC is immune to again with no in universe justification? Seriously metagaming, and bad form to boot.

Which is exactly what I meant, although this is a more elegant way of putting it.

[Calthropstu]

i didn't know this would be such a unanimous "You suck!" decision.
And as offended as i want to be, i cant ignore the fact that EVERYONE said yes. And i appreciate the feedback, for the most part.

But here we go:



My problem was never with the level 2 version, as i mentioned in my initial post, its the fact that he is absorbing 30 points of ALL ENERGY DAMAGE.

i don't know how much experience you have with DMing gestalted characters, but these guys would probably destroy your whole campaign with ease.


Did you even read my post?


I don't know what kind of campaign you run, but dealing 80 points of damage to a character in one shot is something I've never seen. especially considering 50 points of damage in one attack is instant death if the player fails a FORT DC15.
And you redirected my topic to "They could be doing so much more." you haven't considered that THEY ARE doing much more, this energy absorption is just the icing on the cake.

Where did you get meta-gaming from?


It's the comments like these that make it very difficult to consider your feedback seriously. you know nothing about the campaign other than the fact that im not a fan of a PC absorbing 30 points of all types of energy damage. DOUCHE

That is exactly what i suggested. so you agree with me then? im confused by you telling me "Yes youre being restrictive" then telling me to outright ban the power.

Lol definitely not the most difficult aspect of a gestalted campaign, but its current and needs to be addressed. Thank you.



Again im confused, you said "yes", but then suggested i just ban the power.


I'm really trying to be humble here, but this comment indicates you didn't even read the original post.




are you aware that the power lasts for 10 minutes per level? because i would ALWAYS use that power at the beginning of every session. but i appreciate your honesty, makes me think about my player's reaction if i tell him "that power you like so much. Can't use it"
So i honestly do appreciate this comment, because it made me think about his perspective.

i like this feedback, mostly lol. Because you slapped me in the face, but also suggested a real solution i could use. and this i love, and i will take you up on this offer.
The telepath/monks stats are insanely high. his AC is about 30, and so is the spell save DC. because hes gestalted he has insanely high reflex and will saves.
The rogue/wizard(illusionist) also has insanely high stats, and he has acrobatic strike, so he can apply his sneak attack anytime he catches an opponent flat footed, which is often.

The monks favorite attacks are flurry of blows, telekinetic maneuver, regular trip attacks, flight, absorbing 30 points of all energy damage, dimension door (as a swift action), dimension twister (which is essentially baleful dimension door), and his last but not least favorite attack is DOMINATE. he uses schism too, and almost every other round dominates a creature.

The rogue illusionist uses this spell which creates duplicates of himself, he uses acrobatic attack to land sneak attacks during normal combat, he can use shadow evocation and shadow summon, so he can essentially cast any evocation/conjuration spell, he can use level 0 and 1 illusion spells as a free action.

These characters are fun, and battles are insanely crazy. So i would love any suggestions for challenges.



the last session we had a tournament in which the 2 PC's took on 2 NPC's i made.

The hero's/PC's: telepath/monk, rogue/illusionist
The enemies/NPC's: bloodline water mage, demon hunter.

The reason the monks energy adaptation became so effective is because i made the tournament platform change every 1d4 rounds. Which added an element to the environment that was a lot of fun, the PC's explicitly expressed love for the tournament arena changes. But the monk didn't have to worry about taking fire damage from the arena, because it only dealt 5d6 damage. which was almost always less than 30.

The ultimate reasoning behind this post is because the spell lasts for 140 minutes, which is a whole session. and it takes away from the game, rather than adding to it. (in my opinion.) but it seems like everyone here disagrees, so i have no choice but to accept the votes and let him keep the annoying spell.

Again thanks to most of you guys for telling me what i needed to hear, not wanted to hear.

You, as the gm, have absolute control over what gets thrown at them.

I remember seeing your original post regarding this. To be honest, your players likely wouldn't challenge me, or any of the other GMs here, one bit. Your Gestalted PC characters sound like they are one feeblemind away from uselessness.

Energy damage is weak. Most characters I play have an answer to most energy damage by level 10. From plane hopping, to lava caverns, to traipsing around in the cold, to fighting dragons; energy damage is a huge staple of nearly everything. If you don't have energy resistance 10-20 against at least 3 elements by level 14, you're doing something wrong.

Now, you're upset that energy adaptation turned the elemental hazards you spent time and effort into working into your tournament into a joke. Your player got the better of you by using one of his powers. A power you should have known he had in the first place. Learn from it.

Most monsters who use elemental attacks as their primary, have secondary and tertiary abilities that they can use. Wind buffets to send flying characters into rock walls, natural attacks, spells, invisibility, tactical moves, throwing rocks. Seriously, the huge variety that D&D offers can challenge anyone.