Making a villain

[jangartharn1]

Hey guys. I need help making a great villain. Let me explain. The campaign I'm in is slowly falling apart. The party has pretty much completed the main story and the party is growing bored. The problem is this is also extending to the point that the players are losing interest in dnd all together. Nobody wants to take over so our group is crumbling. So to try to rekindle the flame I want to make a legendary villain as my character. A villain that when the party hears of his tyrannical and monstrous acts that it'll spur them to action. A villain that will make them excited to come back to dnd each week to try and stop him. But to be honest I have no clue on how to make a villain that could take on my party. The party is 2 Paladins, 2 monks, a wizard, and a fighter. So I ask the Giants in the playground community to help me make this monster! Oh also the party is 7th level. We have 21,000 gold to use on magic items and other nessessities. Ok thanks guys! ;)

[AvatarVecna]

Hey guys. I need help making a great villain. Let me explain. The campaign I'm in is slowly falling apart. The party has pretty much completed the main story and the party is growing bored. The problem is this is also extending to the point that the players are losing interest in dnd all together. Nobody wants to take over so our group is crumbling. So to try to rekindle the flame I want to make a legendary villain as my character. A villain that when the party hears of his tyrannical and monstrous acts that it'll spur them to action. A villain that will make them excited to come back to dnd each week to try and stop him. But to be honest I have no clue on how to make a villain that could take on my party. The party is 2 Paladins, 2 monks, a wizard, and a fighter. So I ask the Giants in the playground community to help me make this monster! Oh also the party is 7th level. We have 21,000 gold to use on magic items and other nessessities. Ok thanks guys! ;)

The most important question I can think to ask here, in order to provide clarity on how to challenge the party, is to ask what the wizard does, both in combat and outside of it. The others are much more set in their role by their class, but the wizard could be focused in any number of directions, even with just seven levels.

Beyond that...the best advice I can give you is to craft a villain that they'll hate, and that they'll love to hate. More than making him a threat to the entire universe, more than having him personally murder all of their relatives, more than making him a monster who set down the path of righteousness with good intentions, make this villain somebody the party cannot take on yet, who toys with them through the whole fight, who is smug and arrogant. They won't remember the villain who was capable of ripping the universe into pieces with his mind, but they'll sure as hell remember Rubio von Betternyusen, master of the ancient slapabitch style of martial arts.

[jangartharn1]

The most important question I can think to ask here, in order to provide clarity on how to challenge the party, is to ask what the wizard does, both in combat and outside of it. The others are much more set in their role by their class, but the wizard could be focused in any number of directions, even with just seven levels.

Beyond that...the best advice I can give you is to craft a villain that they'll hate, and that they'll love to hate. More than making him a threat to the entire universe, more than having him personally murder all of their relatives, more than making him a monster who set down the path of righteousness with good intentions, make this villain somebody the party cannot take on yet, who toys with them through the whole fight, who is smug and arrogant. They won't remember the villain who was capable of ripping the universe into pieces with his mind, but they'll sure as hell remember Rubio von Betternyusen, master of the ancient slapabitch style of martial arts.

The wizard is a pretty new player. He pretty much uses spells that sound fun or have cool names. As for outside of combat he just follows and does whatever the pallys do.

[Extra Anchovies]

Nobody wants to take over so our group is crumbling.

Have you considered taking a collective approach to the storytelling aspect of the game? Come up with new characters in a thematically consistent party (draconic powers, undead hunters, followers of a certain god, etc) and a quest for the party to go on, probably something focused more on combat than on NPC interaction. Work through the story and encounters together, pitting your group against challenges and enemies fitting for the environment. It requires keeping the creation of an interesting adventure a higher priority than being the awesome badass star of the show, and everyone needs to be open to accepting others' ideas and to sometimes having things not go their character's way, but I've had some really fun times arise from that sort of organic storytelling.

[jangartharn1]

Have you considered taking a collective approach to the storytelling aspect of the game? Come up with new characters in a thematically consistent party (draconic powers, undead hunters, followers of a certain god, etc) and a quest for the party to go on, probably something focused more on combat than on NPC interaction. Work through the story and encounters together, pitting your group against challenges and enemies fitting for the environment. It requires keeping the creation of an interesting adventure a higher priority than being the awesome badass star of the show, and everyone needs to be open to accepting others' ideas and to sometimes having things not go their character's way, but I've had some really fun times arise from that sort of organic storytelling.

That could work. I'll suggest that to our dm. But I'll admit I do still kind of want to come up with this awesome villain build. And I think that could play into the more creative story because I plan to make each time they run into me or some of my underlings an original or exciting new type of encounter.

[Krobar]

I once had a NPC that made a living by secretly following lower level adventurers around and stealing their stuff when they weren't looking.

As the party grew in power this NPC became more powerful too. He'd show up at the most inopportune times, grab something awesome, and make his escape.

He was a wizard.

[Name1]

This will make me sound horrible, but whenever I run out of ideas to stir trouble, I simply look at the setting, at where they could go, and pick from the following as appropriate:

Round One: Leader of Armies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?395046)
Round Two: Nature's Revenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400517)
Round Three: Double Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406015)
Round Four: Grave Keeper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?413480)
Round Five: Crime Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420704)
Round Six: Ultimate Predator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?430650)
Round Seven: Wicked Witch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444478)
Round Eight: Master of the Tundra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?461482)
Round Nine: The Power of Villainous Thinking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?474230)
Round Ten: Henchman Are Villains Too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478068)
Round Eleven: The Higher They Rise The Harder They Fall (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?483052)
Round Twelve: Power Comes at a Price (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488846)
Round Thirteen: The Gadgeteer - You Are Not Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?491932)
Round Fourteen: The Thing That Should Not Be (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496091)

These guys have awesome ideas, provide a backstory and build for every 5 CRs.
Protip though, don't let your players fight the Flock if they have no idea what they are up against.
It may end in a lot of sadness if you do... Trust me, I'd know.

[VenomTongue]

You could send them on a pretty standard mission after role playing some pretty interesting towns Folk and then have them come back having completed the mission to an entire town dead. Blame your villain. It's woman in the refrigerator syndrome on a grand scale. Tropes work for a reason

[DarkSoul]

Don't make a villain... at least, not an intentional one. Here's the scene:

The party is out doing whatever it is they do between adventures; rescuing cats from trees, making sure the kobolds in the caves outside of town have enough candles that they don't go raiding, whatever. Enter your character, with the plot for the adventure hot on his heels. He tells the group that something terrible has happened, and a malicious summoner has torn open a rift to a lower plane! Fiends and worse are spilling out into the countryside, and without someone stepping up to seal the rift, who knows how far the fiends will get. The group gets back to town to find the place under attack, and after repelling the fiends (because they're heroes) they embark on the long and difficult series of adventures to seal the rift, after destroying the leader of the fiends who is the plot's ultimate villain.

Now, what actually happened is this: Your character was the "malicious summoner" who bit of more than he could chew, and you are responsible for the rift being torn open. When it happened you fled to find people strong enough to oppose the fiends and seal the rift before it gets completely out of control. How and when this information comes out is up to you.

[ben-zayb]

This will make me sound horrible, but whenever I run out of ideas to stir trouble, I simply look at the setting, at where they could go, and pick from the following as appropriate:

Round One: Leader of Armies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?395046)
Round Two: Nature's Revenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400517)
Round Three: Double Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406015)
Round Four: Grave Keeper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?413480)
Round Five: Crime Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420704)
Round Six: Ultimate Predator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?430650)
Round Seven: Wicked Witch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444478)
Round Eight: Master of the Tundra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?461482)
Round Nine: The Power of Villainous Thinking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?474230)
Round Ten: Henchman Are Villains Too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478068)
Round Eleven: The Higher They Rise The Harder They Fall (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?483052)
Round Twelve: Power Comes at a Price (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488846)
Round Thirteen: The Gadgeteer - You Are Not Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?491932)
Round Fourteen: The Thing That Should Not Be (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496091)

These guys have awesome ideas, provide a backstory and build for every 5 CRs.
Protip though, don't let your players fight the Flock if they have no idea what they are up against.
It may end in a lot of sadness if you do... Trust me, I'd know.
To be honest the origin of the villain comp was also what I had in mind when I saw the thread title. Lots of awesome premade villains, no doubt.


I'm also honored to hear someone placing the Adzorok flock in their campaign. Just note that there're guidelines on how to effectively integrate them to a campaign based on the party's Op level.

[Grand Poobah]

Some good tips on creating memorable villains on YouTube http://D&D Games w/ Chris Perkins: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE27C0016BE8A97ED

[Name1]

To be honest the origin of the villain comp was also what I had in mind when I saw the thread title. Lots of awesome premade villains, no doubt.


I'm also honored to hear someone placing the Adzorok flock in their campaign. Just note that there're guidelines on how to effectively integrate them to a campaign based on the party's Op level.

Yeah, I should clearly have followed them better. The thing I saw was the swarm being able to transfrom into Merregons and I was all like "this is gonne be awesome, they are only CR 3 on their own, so sending them down from the main Flock in 7-Man teams would be an ok encounter for a party of 5 level 9s".

Oh boy, I was wrong: The moment they got the necessary artifact to stop it, the sky went black and the swarm was there, 2 miles of raven in the sky in every direction they could go. Every 1000 feet, they'd encounter such a 7-Man team, and that wittled them down hard. The 4th encounter was a TPK because they did little, but consistent damage and the CLW-Wand had been running low.

It's such an awesome enemy. I ruled that the "wrong" that keeps it alive was her master, who had died due to a mistake made by the PCs (which was about to turn out in their favor), so their idea was to get the book of exalted deeds, drench it in unholy water and have someone use Apocalypse from the Sky on them... At least that would have been the plan without the wipe^^°

[A.A.King]

If you want a villian your party is exciting to beat, don't make him legendary, make him annoying.

A legendary villian is a long term goal, something you shouldn't expect to defeat yet. People who are already starting to lose interest in D&D are probably not going to get too motivated if they realise they have to get another 5 to 10 levels to be able to beat this guy. Similarly, you can't encounter a Legendary Villian too often because a loss would be demotivating and a victory would depower the villian.

An annoying villoan however, someone the party wants to defeat out of spite rather than out of Glory is a good way to motivate the party. It is also easier to have such a villian be a recurring encounter because a villian who is supposed to annoy your party can escape after a defeat, giving the statisfaction of victory while keeping tje bloodlust going.

One concept I thought up would I evet DM (which I won't) revolves around the Dirgesinger PrC class and a Giant King. The basic concept is that somewhere there is a city which has fallen to a single Giant which has enslaved its human population using Goblin minions. Tales of such attrocity should motivate your paladdins to free the city and slay the Giant. The thing you have tp get right is that thr Giant feels like a proper boss fight, one which requires them to go almost all out to defeat it. Then, when he is down and his corpse is on the floor, the party starts hearing spooky music coming from behind the throne room. A bard appears and suddenly the Giant comes back to live and starts attacking them again. Round 2 - Fight.

This new villian robbed them of their moment of peace and turned their hard earned victort into a big problem. Bonus points if you have this bard be the same one who told them about the Giant King's Slave City, make it so that she needed the Giant kept busy while she stole an important artifact. Now the party also feels played, and a little robbed of potential treasure. If you play it right then they will look into her reasons for stealing the artifact not because they want to save the world, or because they know it is what the story demands but because they REALLY want to see this B**** dead.

The ultimate goal of such a character is normally to use her musical cues effectively, so they eventually get annoyed just from hearing it "SH¡T, she is here again!!!" but in your case what is more important is that this is a character the party can actively hunt down. Because her strength lies in cunning it seems more plausible to defeat this villian than her boss (a legendary vampire king or something).