New to casters, looking for help with Sorcerer/Mailman build

[gagelish]

Hey guys!

I'm currently playing my very first caster class ever, and I'm basing my character loosely around the famous Mailman build (I tried to link the build and the Incantrix class here, but I can't post links unfortunately).

We're currently pretty low level, and I'm still mapping out my build, but I have a few questions I could use some help with in regard to sorcerers, the Incantrix class, and the Mailman build in general. Any help you guys could provide would be very much appreciated!

1) In Incantrix builds that start as Wizards there is a huge emphasis on the Metamagic Effect ability where the caster can apply Metamagic to spells using the Spellcraft skill, but in The Mailman build that ability is barely mentioned. Does Spellcraft being Int based and most of the Mailman spells not fitting the requirements for Metamagic Effect basically make this class ability useless in a Sorc/Incant build?

2) Related to number one, Wiz/Incant builds make a lot of use of Extend/Persistent Spell with Metamagic Effect to do things like Grant 24 hour Mage Armor and such. The Mailman build is much more focused on straight damage spells where Extend/Persist aren't applicable. Are there any Metamagic feats that a Mailman could use with Metamagic Effect to produce little tricks and benefits of our own?

3) Assuming that Metamagic Effect will have some uses for a Mailman, what are the best/fastest/cheapest/most effective ways to bump up my Spellcraft score considering it's Int based and sorcerers use Charisma?

4) What are the absolute must have Metamagic Feats? What order should they be learned? I know this is somewhat covered in the Mailman build, but I'd love a second opinion as well as a little information on why I've great over another and why one order over another? Are Extend and Persist just not useful for a Mailman?

5) Arcane Thesis: Yea or Nay? If yes, which spell? Orb of Force seems like the obvious choice, but am I missing something?

6) Assuming Knowstones aren't an option what are the absolute must-have spells for each level and what order should they be learned?

7) Any other tips, tricks, or hints on building a Sorc/Incant Mailman build? I can see from the build how it's effective, but a little more information on how and why things are the way they are would be amazing.

This forum has helped me learn so much about casters and I really appreciate any help you guys could provide. Thanks so much!

[BowStreetRunner]

"The Mailman: A Direct Damage Sorcerer" (from Wizards forums) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447435-quot-The-Mailman-A-Direct-Damage-Sorcerer-quot-(from-Wizards-forums))

Here is the link.

[ExLibrisMortis]

1) It's still very powerful. Don't forget you can persist buffs on the party fighter, as well, including buffs cast by other spellcasters in the party, at least six times per day. That's huge.
2) Not on your own spells, really. Instantaneous spells, like a mailman's orbs, are ineligible for Metamagic Effect. However, see above. You can use Cooperative Metamagic to augment blasting or summoning spells, for example twinning the druid's SNA spells.
3) Mainly magic items (custom items) and a masterwork tool (+2 for 50 gp, good deal). There aren't many good intelligence buff spells, sadly. You can get a custom item of guidance of the avatar, or an item familiar, but those are cheesy, and not that cheap.
4) Empower Spell, because it's easy to mitigate, even at lower levels, with Arcane Thesis and Practical Metamagic, for example. You don't want to spend a feat slot on PM (Empower) if you're going to hit level 16, but at levels 9-15, it allows you to put an empowered orb into an arcane fusion, which is pretty good. Twin Spell is also very good. Energy Admixture can be good, but it takes two feats, which is painful.
5) Yea. Orb of acid is not quite as universally applicable as orb of force, but it's a lot more damaging (at higher CL), and has that tasty rider. If you are willing to spend a feat on something like Energy Substitution (which also leads to Admixture), or if you're using Searing Spell (with orb of fire, which has an amazing rider effect), you'll be able to use orb of acid/fire nearly as universally as orb of force, but with more damage.



I can't stress enough how important this is: build for the levels you play. Incantatrix 10 happens at ECL 16. Don't ruin your level 1-15 career by picking long-term feat choices. If it really matters, ask your DM to allow retraining.

[gagelish]

Thanks, yeah, it wouldn't let me include the link in my post because I don't have enough posts in the forum.

Anyone wondering what build I'm talking about when I say The Mailman, that's it^^^

Also, in case you can't find the Incantrix class, the ability that I mention in my post, Metamagic Effect is:

Metamagic Effect (Su): At 3rd level, an incantatrix can attempt to apply a metamagic feat she possesses to a persistent spell effect that is already in place. For example, she could use Extend Spell to extend the duration of a wall of force or Maximize Spell to maximize the damage dealt by a cloudkill. To use this ability, the incantatrix must be adjacent to or within the spell effect and make a successful Spellcraft check (DC 18 + [3 × modified spell level]. "Modified spell level" is the level of the spell slot that the spell would occupy if it were prepared with the metamagic feat applied. Spell slot increases for metamagic feats that were applied to affect the spell's casting (such as Still Spell, Silent Spell, or Quicken Spell) do not count toward the modified spell level, but adjustments for metamagic that change the spell's effect (such as Empower Spell, Enlarge Spell, or Widen Spell) do count.
For example, applying the Extend Spell feat to a wall of fire gives it a modified spell level of 5th (4th for the spell +1 for the Extend Spell feat), so the DC would be 18 + (3 × 5) = 33. If the wall of fire had been cast with the Silent Spell feat applied, the DC is still 33, since that feat applies to the spell's casting, not its effect. On the other hand, extending an empowered wall of fire would give it a modified spell level of 7th and a Spellcraft DC of 39.
An incantatrix can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Int modifier. Using this ability is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

[Eldariel]

1) In Incantrix builds that start as Wizards there is a huge emphasis on the Metamagic Effect ability where the caster can apply Metamagic to spells using the Spellcraft skill, but in The Mailman build that ability is barely mentioned. Does Spellcraft being Int based and most of the Mailman spells not fitting the requirements for Metamagic Effect basically make this class ability useless in a Sorc/Incant build?

It's not useless, it's just not central to the point of getting damage through. The build mostly lists how to deal damage; the "how to stay alive, find enemies, move, etc." is not extrapolated upon but you are to use the normal Wizard-tools to that end. Persisting/Extending buffs, Sculpting effects and such is always useful. It's just a matter of fitting the feats into your build.


2) Related to number one, Wiz/Incant builds make a lot of use of Extend/Persistent Spell with Metamagic Effect to do things like Grant 24 hour Mage Armor and such. The Mailman build is much more focused on straight damage spells where Extend/Persist aren't applicable. Are there any Metamagic feats that a Mailman could use with Metamagic Effect to produce little tricks and benefits of our own?

Most damage spells are instantaneous so Metamagic Effect isn't very useful there. You can use Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability (or similar) and Cooperative Metamagic that up but sadly due to the action cost, that isn't all that efficient either; both of those abilities are generally best used for buffing. Do note, making Hours/Level spells like Mage Armor last 24 hours is quite pointless. However, the real beauty of the feat lies in making short duration buffs last 24 hours (or 48 if you further Extend the Persisted spell). Even one round buffs like Guided Shot, Arrow Mind and such can be persisted. Do note that the obvious use, True Casting and True Strike, do not work as they specify they only apply to your next spell though.

Anyways, there are some spells that are quite nice to keep up all day and to that end, Persistifying is certainly still fine. In combat, there are some spells such as Manyjaws where you could cast them in the first round and then Metamagic Effect them with something like Empower Spell, Energy Admixture (well, don't use that with Manyjaws specifically, obviously) or such, or Quicken them and then Metamagic Effect them in the same turn. You'll have to dig for such effects though; they aren't that common (Streamers [Shining South] is a nice one).


3) Assuming that Metamagic Effect will have some uses for a Mailman, what are the best/fastest/cheapest/most effective ways to bump up my Spellcraft score considering it's Int based and sorcerers use Charisma?

Usually items boosting specific skills are rather cheap. Many people recommend custom items but if those aren't on the table, there are still items that work. As an example, Tome of Ancient Lore [Magic Item Compendium] has +5 competence to Spellcraft for 5500gp (and an hour a day; also bonus to Knowledge (Arcana)) with some interesting powers if you take the True Believer [Complete Divine] feat. You probably don't benefit unless you take Arcane Preparation [Complete Arcane] though. There's also the Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm)-feat, which does all sorts of awesome stuff but for you most importantly, it grants you bonuses to a skill.

Then there are spells: Divine Insight [Spell Compendium] and Guidance of the Avatar (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a). Sadly they're both Cleric-spells though accessible via. Unseen Seer or some trickery.

Of course, there are Masterwork Tools in PHB (you'll have to ask the DM) and you get +2 Synergy from Knowledge (Arcana). And buffing your Int is a good idea anyways. A Marshal Cohort (through Leadership) could Motivate Intelligence for a fairly significant bonus.


4) What are the absolute must have Metamagic Feats? What order should they be learned? I know this is somewhat covered in the Mailman build, but I'd love a second opinion as well as a little information on why I've great over another and why one order over another? Are Extend and Persist just not useful for a Mailman?

Well, Persistent Spell is useful as stated above; just not to the end of blowing someone to smithereens. It's nice to be alive while you do that though. For offense, Twin Spell, Energy Admixture, Split Ray (if you use a Ray), Empower Spell and Quicken Spell are probably good enough. That's a nice starting line. You can also play around with stuff like Sanctum Spell (cheesy tho), Born of Three Thunders (just have something like Quick Recovery [Lords of Madness] or Favor of the Martyr [Spell Compendium] to survive the Daze) or company to carry you through there. Note the negative level adjustment from Arcane Thesis; check with DM before using.

I'm personally a huge fan of Sculpt Spell but fitting everything is gonna be hard anyways. Well, sort this part out yourself. Repeating Spell and Echoing Spell [Secrets of Xen'drik] can be used to recover spell slots and such which can be quite nice, particularly if you have means to buff your caster level (though to use Echoing Spell, you need Arcane Preparation).


5) Arcane Thesis: Yea or Nay? If yes, which spell? Orb of Force seems like the obvious choice, but am I missing something?

Arcane Thesis is very good, particularly with some generalist spell. Orb of Force is good in that it can hurt almost anyone (without Forceward) but you'll have to do more work to make it do enough damage and it has no convenient carrier effects as with Orb of Fire (thanks to Searing Spell [Sandstorm], Fire-damage is actually a nice option as it can pierce immunity). The range is good but it's single target. Overall, it's a fine pick particularly for Mailman's given goal of trying to get damage through as reliably as possible. Other spells would offer more AOE, range, damage or such though (also do note, metamagic effects can be used to add onto spells where they lack).

There's the option of using Spellwarp Sniper [Complete Scoundrel] to use one spell as both, a Reflex-save AOE and a single target touch spell. Only problem is, it'd be a Ray and there are special counters to Rays; and spells allowing Reflex-saves are always liable to fail against types with Evasion. Thus it's another imperfect option.


6) Assuming Knowstones aren't an option what are the absolute must-have spells for each level and what order should they be learned?

Ugh. That's a hard topic and it depends on how you wish to tackle things. Generally you want some save-or-sucks, some damage, some protection, some utility; thus you mix levels and take your preferred combination. To that end, Heighten Spell is nice too, enabling your low level save-or-suck (such as Grease, Glitterdust or Stinking Cloud, all of which scale well) to act at maximum capacity vs. higher level enemies. Note, there are options for Knowstones such as Drakehelm [Explorer's Handbook] or Runestaves [Magic Item Compendium].

Anyways, go scour a Wizard/Sorcerer Handbook and pick what you want; just remember the Sorcerer-specific extra options such as Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry [Races of the Dragon]


7) Any other tips, tricks, or hints on building a Sorc/Incant Mailman build? I can see from the build how it's effective, but a little more information on how and why things are the way they are would be amazing.

Well, it's mostly about applying a lot of cheap metamagic on a spell and making things go boom. The build spends its resources learning metamagic and reducing its costs, and applies everything to the key spell that's meant to get the job done.

If you're going Sorcerer, do consider Kobold and the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). That would allow you to catch up to a Wizard in spell progression eventually. Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold [Races of the Dragon] would by strict RAW also qualify for Loredrake sovereign archetype [Dragons of Eberron] for two extra levels of casting, though that's liable to get books thrown in your general direction. Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold (-4 Str, +2 Dex, +3 Int, +1 Wis, +3 Cha) might fly though and would make for a solid, if feat-starved build (but then again, you're Sorcerer, you brought that upon yourself). Note that while technically Venerable, Dragonwrought Kobolds actually are fairly young by their own reckoning thanks to the 10xCharisma/5xCharisma of extra years they get to live. Thus it's not that surprising that they'd go adventuring; a 120 year old Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer still probably has 200+ years to live.