3.5 PHB Only Monk Build

[Reynard Loxley]

As the title says, I'm making a Monk using only the 3.5 Player's Hand Book (no monster manual, no DMG, no presitge classes and no splats at all). Multi-classing is allowed and no penalties to xp for it, I'm looking for race, class, feats and skills etc...

The Details:
- Starting at level 4
- 32 point buy system
- I have 3k to spend on arms and equipment and minor magic items

I don't need to serve any particular purpose within the party, yes I know Monk isn't going to be OP but I've never played one and I've decided that it's what I'm going to play.

My current outlook is High Elf, buy a +1 dex boost for 1k and a +1AC boost for 1k. Focus on flurry of blows (weapon finesse ans weapon focus unarmed strike). Grapple and combat reflexes for monk feats...

Str - 12
Dex - 17 (+2)
Con - 12 (-2)
Int - 9
Wis - 16
Cha - 8

Thoughts and opinions?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Monk 1/druid 19. That's about the only real way for a monk to be truly effective in Core-only.

[Vizzerdrix]

Id dip cleric for buffs, but the problem with that is knowing when to say enough cleric.

Core only is a rough place for monk to be. Maybe horizon walker 6 for d door would help a little?

[Troacctid]

As the title says, I'm making a Monk using only the 3.5 Player's Hand Book (no monster manual, no DMG, no presitge classes and no splats at all). Multi-classing is allowed and no penalties to xp for it, I'm looking for race, class, feats and skills etc...

The Details:
- Starting at level 4
- 32 point buy system
- I have 3k to spend on arms and equipment and minor magic items

I don't need to serve any particular purpose within the party, yes I know Monk isn't going to be OP but I've never played one and I've decided that it's what I'm going to play.

My current outlook is High Elf, buy a +1 dex boost for 1k and a +1AC boost for 1k. Focus on flurry of blows (weapon finesse ans weapon focus unarmed strike). Grapple and combat reflexes for monk feats...

Str - 12
Dex - 17 (+2)
Con - 12 (-2)
Int - 9
Wis - 16
Cha - 8

Thoughts and opinions?
You're not grappling anything with 12 Strength and average BAB. It's not happening. There's no point even bothering to take Improved Grapple. And Combat Reflexes is only really good if you're using a reach weapon, so that's not going to be very useful either.

12 Strength also means you're dealing scratch damage, so your flurry of blows is going to be mostly useless. And with only 10 Con, your HP is too low to reliably survive in melee combat. So what you would actually be doing most of the time with this build is firing a longbow, since it deals the same amount of damage (actually slightly more due to the higher crit multiplier), while allowing you to remain in the back lines where you won't get pounded by the enemy brutes.

Of course, at that point you're not doing anything that a fighter, rogue, ranger, bard, cleric, druid, or barbarian wouldn't do better, but that's basically the story of the monk's life.

Now, if you're actually interested in punching and grappling, you'll probably want to multiclass as a druid instead. In that case, you're going to be a human, gnome, or dwarf (because Dex bonuses don't matter when you're in wild shape), and your build will have 1 level of monk, with druid for the rest.

Alternately, if you want to be grappling without turning into a tiger first, try a half-orc Barbarian 1/Monk 2/Fighter 2/Horizon Walker X (assuming you can get DMG access). However, I would not recommend this route if you are restricted to the PHB, since it is not viable without prestige class access.

[BowStreetRunner]

Have you read THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?196110-Optimization-challenge-Core-rules-only-Monk)?

[mabriss lethe]

Just a quick slap-together core only Swiss-army monk:
Human Monk 4
Str/Dex/Con: 14
Int/Cha: 10
Wis: 16
(1 bonus point at level 4 to distribute as you see fit)

Saves: F+6/R+6/W+7
To hit/damage:
melee+6 (Flurry +4/+4) Damage: /1d6+3 quarterstaff (Only +2 if flurrying)*using mw quarterstaff
Ranged +6 (Flurry +4/+4) Damage: 1d4+3 sai/1d2+1 shuriken (plus any enchantments)

Feats:
Human bonus: Improved initiative
1: Blind Fight
Monk bonus 1: Stunning fist
Monk bonus 2: Combat reflexes
3: Point blank shot

Skills: Max ranks (7) in Hide/move silently/spot(or listen)/tumble/perform(there's a reason)

Equipment of note:
Masterwork quarterstaff
two each of sai, kama, siangham.
Bracers of armor+1
Pipes of the sewers
Assorted enchanted Shuriken purchased individually
Light crossbow/bolts

Tactics:
-Rogue's Best Friend: Assuming there's a party rogue, you'll be his backup as a scout. You're likely just as stealthy, can take a hit from either monsters or traps, and can provide flanking opportunities. If there isn't a party rogue, you're then next best things.

Swiss army knife: You've got a number of tools at your disposal via special monk weapons. As a monk, you're never unarmed. Don't be afraid to use your weapons, and lose them. Due to Flurry being a bad plan at this level, a MW quarterstaff is better than your fists and should be your primary weapon. Don't forget your others though. Even without improved trip, a kama can let you trip up foes without risking being countered. The worst thing that happens is you lose your disposable weapon. The sai is actually really flexible. It disarms as a one handed weapon instead of a light weapon and can be thrown. (You should never use it as a standard melee weapon, if you aren't throwing or disarming, use an unarmed strike or whatever you've got in your hand.) The siangham isn't all that useful, but keep one anyway for the off chance that you'll need it to overcome DR/piercing. They're also good candidates for silvering/ cold iron. While the Sai has better base damage for throwing, don't neglect the shuriken. Being treated as ammo, you can purchase an assortment of them bearing low to mid level enchantments to boost damage and exploit energy weakness/bypass resistance. At extreme range, you can snipe with a crossbow.


-Stun gun: you may attempt a stun 4/day. Combines well with Rogue's best friend and Swiss army knife tactics.

-Pseudo bard: (via Pipes of the sewers) If conditions are likely, use the pipes to command rat swarms for auto-damage and debuff (Nauseated is a nice distraction that can shut down an opponent completely. At level 4, it's not a terrible anti-caster tactic)

[Eladrinblade]

You can wear gauntlets with your unarmed strikes. Ask your DM if he'll allow you to flurry with them (he better; monks need all the help they can get). Stack on Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike). Decide if it's better to be enlarged for damage and reach (good with Combat Reflexes) or reduced for AC and to-hit.

You are not a front-line combatant. You are a flanking buddy and rogue/mage killer (that is, you target physically weak enemies).
You can be all over the battlefield, and have little concern for friendly-fire from your mage buddies. Don't try to grapple/disarm/trip/stun tough enemies; save it for rogues and mages (and fey and aberrations and blah blah blah).

You can't get a +1 dex item. Invest in a wand of mage armor for a mage friend to cast on you. Shield is good too (and stacks), but has a short duration. Get a longspear. Hold it. Make AoO's and Disarms with it. You won't be proficient with it, but who cares, you'll get free attacks. You don't need your hands for unarmed strikes.

Get MW gauntlets. Get a good longbow. Use nets and alchemical items, to free up the action economy for your friends (that is, you use them so they don't have to spend the time to do so themselves).

Also, your stats aren't 32pts.

Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 8

That's 32, with your 4th level increase added in. If you simply must have the 16 wisdom, decrease strength to 12.

[Eldariel]

Right now your stats are:

Unarmed Strikes - +4 to hit for 1d8+1 damage (comparable to a level 1 NPC Warrior with a Mw. Longsword, though he does more damage) or +2/+2 to hit for 1d8+1 damage each
AC - 10 + 3 Dex + 3 Wis = 16, less than an 8 Dex character in a Fullplate (indeed, a level 1 NPC Warrior with 12 Dex in a Chainmail could hit the same).

Your Will and Ref saves, and Touch AC are decent. Your Fort is only though +4, which is again equivalent to a level 1 or perhaps level 2 NPC Warrior. So, combat-wise you're a level 1-2 NPC Warrior. That's...not a good place for a level 4 PC to be.


If Monk is to use his bonus feats and be at all effective in melee combat, he must prioritise Strength. The only real thing Monk gets are free Improved Trip (and Improved Grapple), and to make use of those you need high Strength. Particularly Trip is a pure Strength-check and doesn't care about your Medium BAB so that's one thing to look forward to. Goes nicely with Enlarge Person from the party caster (you need an Arcane Caster or a Cleric with Magic-domain in the party; if you don't have one, get one with Leadership) and provides you with some bonuses to your horrible attack rolls. If you can only use PHB races, that basically means Human or Half-Orc (sadly the Int/Charisma penalties hurt you bad). Sadly the human bonus feat is kinda wasted too. Elves get a bonus to Dex, yes, but Con is just as important. From Monster Manual, Wood Elves, Wild Elves or full Orcs would all serve well.

Now, the reason I said you need an Arcane Caster is that the only way you can get any reasonable defense on these levels is to get Mage Armor cast on you. To that end, you can buy a Wand of Mage Armor for a party arcanist and have it used at the start of each incursion into dangerous area but you can't use the Wand yourself (and don't bother trying; that's a Charisma-based cross-class skill). Later on, Polymorph will be of great interest to you as after changing shape, you keep your Wisdom to AC and most importantly, your ability to perform Unarmed Strikes (which means you can use full natural attack sequence plus full unarmed strike sequence with the Monster Strength and Size, which can be impressive indeed).

Oh yeah and carry a weapon. No real reason not to; you can use your unarmed strikes with any part of your body so you don't need your hands free. A reach weapon that can trip is ideal; doesn't matter if you're not proficient (though you might as well be; Spiked Chain is the time-tested winner for its power and versatility), its primary purpose is to provide you with attacks of opportunity, particularly when Enlarged (20' reach). You should get both, your weapon and your Unarmed Strikes enhanced with Greater Magic Weapon (from your arcanist) or Greater Magic Fang (if you happen to have a Druid).

Also, being denied Improved Natural Attack [Monster Manual] for your Unarmed Strikes will hurt you a lot. That's a fairly huge damage increase for particularly low level Monks where they need the help the most.


If I were you, I'd do the following:

Half-Orc Monk

18 Str (+2 Racial)
14 Dex
14 Con
10 Int (-2 Racial)
14 Wis
6 Cha (-2 Racial)

That's 16/14/14/12/14/8 or 10 points/6 points/6 points/4 points/6 points or 32 point buy. About as good as it gets. You could get 20 Str at the low low cost of dumping Int (meaning 2 skill points per level, congrats) and taking 2 off Con, Dex or Wis but that's probably not worth it. Oh yeah, and you definitely want Medium size (for unarmed damage dice plus getting Enlarged to Large) and 30' movement.


By comparison to the previous layout, this gives you:

+7 to hit for 1d8+4 damage, or +5/+5 to hit for 1d8+4 damage each. The flurry-option in particular actually does some damage now! This is worth building on: you can take Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strikes on level 3 and see if a caster could give you Magic Weapon occasionally. +7/+7 for 1d8+5 each is actually quite solid vs. your average CR4-8 encounters. CR4 encounters average AC 18, while the highers are ~20-23. Your flurry is now averaging 10 damage a turn vs. AC 18 and 5 damage a turn vs. AC 23. A significant step up from your previous 3/0.5 average damage per turn.

Your AC is even worse! You only have 14 base. But I'll tell you a secret: It doesn't really matter. Either way, everything is gonna hit you on these levels so you should focus on killing them before they kill you. Monk can't get passable AC until much later. At least you have 8 more HP to take the pain.

Like I said, try and get someone to cast Mage Armor on you but don't expect to be able to take hits. It's two more levels before you learn to trip people, so bide your time. Use Hide/Move Silently as you can and try to knock the enemies out before they get a chance to do anything meaningful.

Your Fort-saves are now as good as the others. Since Fort in particular tends to kill you if you fail saves, I'd say that's an improvement.

Your Grapple is now +11 if you take Improved Grapple. That's useless against many things but far less useless than it used to be. Alternatively, your Stunning Fist is now DC 14 instead of DC 15. However, since your chance of hitting the Stunning Fist attack is now higher, your overall success chance in using the feat has actually increased. Ultimately you'll want both since it's not like you have any other use for your feats.