Making the Cleric Care

[Codexis]

So I have recently begun a new campaign with my group. I have 4 players between levels 12-15. Most are fine but I need help with my Cleric player. He is generally very 'neutral' in that he never overly seems affected by anything. He never seems invested in the situation and half the time his characters do not care about the situation they are in regardless of what it is.

While discussing with each of them pre-game I asked the cleric player what might cause hischaracter to have a potential crisis of faith or hesitate in her worship (is a cleric of Heironious) and he answered that nothing would do so. Any ideas on what might be a way to get the cleric more invested in a situation?

Tl;dr: My cleric player never cares about what is happening and says his cleric will never waver in her faith. How do I make the cleric waver?

[BowStreetRunner]

I may be reading the situation wrong, but to me it sounds more like an issue with the player than with the character. Have you played with this person before? Do you know what sort of things cause the player to show more motiviation?

[Name1]

If his cleric is 100% sure in his faith being correct without question, that would mean that everything that runs counter to his faith is wrong without question, right? Wouldn't exposing him to a cleric of a different faith work, since that cleric would be so obviously heretic?

[darksolitaire]

Take his character sheet and replace all instances that refer to Heironeous with Boccob. Problem solved.

[Boci]

Tl;dr: My cleric player never cares about what is happening and says his cleric will never waver in her faith. How do I make the cleric waver?

Why do you need their faith to waiver? That's typically something that doesn't happen, because, well clerics are their faith. Is the wizards going to find out their magic theory was flawed?

I get that a player who stubbornly refuses to get emotionally invested in their character and the world can be bad to work with, but that's bad regardless of their class, and I'm confused on why you are so fixed on the cleric's faith.

[J-H]

Take his character sheet and replace all instances that refer to Heironeous with Boccob. Problem solved.

^This is, and will remain, the funniest and best response on this thread.

It sounds like a player problem, not a character sheet problem.

[Beheld]

Yeah, I don't think you want to ask that of the player as like "What would it take for me to take your character and **** all over it mechanically and conceptually so you are playing neither the mechanics of personality that you wanted to play."

Maybe ask how he can best serve his god, or if his god has goals for him to strive for, instead of how to make him stop being the character he wants to play.

[BowStreetRunner]

The more I think of it the more I feel that what you need is to:

Find ways to make your player roleplay his character as being passionately invested in the events around him, and
abandon your quest to attempt to cause him to have a crisis of faith.

While it would be perfectly acceptable to keep after him in-game on the matter of a crisis of faith (say for instance with a heretical blackguard former paladin of the same faith who keeps after him to 'come over to the dark side'), if the player has indicated no interest in role-playing such an event then it would probably not be a fun experience if you were to railroad him into it.

[Codexis]

The cleric is the first of his characters I am actually dming for. Before this I've generally been a pc with him and others in my group. He's made it clear that his character only cares about her faith and so on and skims over nearly any other situation by just not caring about it. A crisis of faith is about the only thing he is giving me to work with that may get him to show some actual investment in the situation other than 'enemies are worshipping bad gods so i need to kill them.'
I don't want to cause him to loose his ckeric abilities or abandon his faith, I just want him more invested in the rp aspects and his faithis the sole thing his character even remotely cares about. Even then he barely shows it either.

[Beheld]

The cleric is the first of his characters I am actually dming for. Before this I've generally been a pc with him and others in my group. He's made it clear that his character only cares about her faith and so on and skims over nearly any other situation by just not caring about it. A crisis of faith is about the only thing he is giving me to work with that may get him to show some actual investment in the situation other than 'enemies are worshipping bad gods so i need to kill them.'
I don't want to cause him to loose his ckeric abilities or abandon his faith, I just want him more invested in the rp aspects and his faithis the sole thing his character even remotely cares about. Even then he barely shows it either.

Then again, you need to find a way for him to be invested in his faith, saying "He's not invested in anything else, so I want him to stop being invested in the one thing he does care about" is just beyond weird.

[Boci]

The cleric is the first of his characters I am actually dming for. Before this I've generally been a pc with him and others in my group. He's made it clear that his character only cares about her faith and so on and skims over nearly any other situation by just not caring about it. A crisis of faith is about the only thing he is giving me to work with that may get him to show some actual investment in the situation other than 'enemies are worshipping bad gods so i need to kill them.'
I don't want to cause him to loose his ckeric abilities or abandon his faith, I just want him more invested in the rp aspects and his faithis the sole thing his character even remotely cares about. Even then he barely shows it either.

Try tossing some NPCs from his church. A superior asking him how he sees his future within the church hierarchy, maybe ask him if he would interest in being the head of a new church they're building, a peer looking to swap notes on faith or asking advice on a mission they must perform, an acolyte who wants to be a priest like him one day, and is eager any advice he has to offer.

Maybe theme plot hooks around that too. Save a kidnapped member of the church, or recover a holy artefact.

Its possibly he's only interested in his faith because it gives him spells, and the above will be ignored, but its worth a try.

[Codexis]

Try tossing some NPCs from his church. A superior asking him how he sees his future within the church hierarchy, maybe ask him if he would interest in being the head of a new church they're building, a peer looking to swap notes on faith or asking advice on a mission they must perform, an acolyte who wants to be a priest like him one day, and is eager any advice he has to offer.

Maybe theme plot hooks around that too. Save a kidnapped member of the church, or recover a holy artefact.

Its possibly he's only interested in his faith because it gives him spells, and the above will be ignored, but its worth a try.

Is there any way I might corrupt a relic? He apparently already has two heironious relics from a seperate campaign. I wasn't aware his cleric had these until he went to a temple and 'pulled rank' for information.
The relics he has are the 'Helm of the Purple Plume' and the 'Sword of Virtue Bryond Reproach'

[Boci]

Is there any way I might corrupt a relic? He apparently already has two heironious relics from a seperate campaign. I wasn't aware his cleric had these until he went to a temple and 'pulled rank' for information.
The relics he has are the 'Helm of the Purple Plume' and the 'Sword of Virtue Bryond Reproach'

This is a problem. Whilst it is generally considered acceptable for players to bring previously used characters to a new game, exceptional ability gained from that previous game need to be run through the Dm (you).

You should also check for these, but I understand if you missed this since you are new. You should talk to them about this. If they are new, then its an understandable mistake, explain that they shouldn't really have two holy relic. What do they do incidentally? What are their mechanical abilities?

[TheYell]

Try tossing some NPCs from his church. A superior asking him how he sees his future within the church hierarchy, maybe ask him if he would interest in being the head of a new church they're building, a peer looking to swap notes on faith or asking advice on a mission they must perform, an acolyte who wants to be a priest like him one day, and is eager any advice he has to offer.

Maybe theme plot hooks around that too. Save a kidnapped member of the church, or recover a holy artefact.

Its possibly he's only interested in his faith because it gives him spells, and the above will be ignored, but its worth a try.

This makes a lot of sense especially if he likes collecting relics and using the church hierarchy.

You could have a NPC cleric of the hierarchy summon him and tell him he shouldn't be wandering around with two relics of Heironeous, but since he has them, he can do church work. Then give him a task to do if he expects cooperation from the church in future.

[Kish]

This sounds like an OOC problem, not an IC one.

That is, this guy doesn't sound interested in roleplaying. It sounds more like he pretends to be but keeps it at bay. But it doesn't sound like he's being disruptive, as such, so the first question to ask is not, "How do I make him get invested in roleplay?" but, "Do I need to make him get invested in roleplay?" It's entirely possible that letting him pilot an automaton with a flesh coating will be easier and more fun for him, for you, and for the rest of the group than demanding more of him.

[BowStreetRunner]

It might also help if you take some time to thoroughly research everything you can find on the church of Heironeous. Sure there is some in the Players Handbook entry, but you will also find useful details in Deities and Demigods, Complete Divine, Lords of Madness (for the Topaz Order), and Complete Champion.

[Pugwampy]

If you wanna muck with the cleric , you tempt his player buddies into being baddies . His God will not tolerate him being with them or aiding them and goodbye cleric super powers .

He wants to stay nice with his god his option is to mess with the evil players but that will annoy them . Rock and a hard place for Mr cleric . HAR HAR HAR