A New +NI Caster Level Trick for Only 350 gp?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

In Complete Champion on page 133, there are special holy symbols which grant benefits when you use them for casting spells or turning/rebuking/commanding/etc. These are great benefits for a mere 350 gp.

However, the one for Nerull is especially potent, granting an extra +1 to your caster level every time you rebuke or command unintelligent undead. The way it's phrased makes me think that these do, indeed, stack, meaning you can gain a number of caster levels per day equal to the number of Rebuke Undead uses you have available to spend on it.

Even if it's only +1 CL, that's a fantastic benefit for only 350 gp.

Discuss.

[Ashtagon]

The common sense reading of it suggests that it grants +1 either when casting a necromancy school spell, casting a Death domain spell, or rebuking/commanding undead.

There's nothing to suggest the +1 bonus is gained by burning a rebuke attempt to enhance the next spell you cast. Even the most literal reading only means that you get a +1 caster level bonus on your rebuke attempt (which then becomes irrelevant as rebuking is based on a Charisma check and a cleric level check, not a caster level check). Common sense would suggest that it was intended to be a shifted lookup on the Turning Undead lookup table for level of success, and a +1 bonus on the damage roll related to rebuking/commanding.

Nothing about the wording suggests that the bonus lasts beyond the specific casting/rebuking attempt. Even if it did, a bonus source, even an untyped bonus source, can't stack with itself.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The common sense reading of it suggests that it grants +1 either when casting a necromancy school spell, casting a Death domain spell, or rebuking/commanding undead.

There's nothing to suggest the +1 bonus is gained by burning a rebuke attempt to enhance the next spell you cast. Even the most literal reading only means that you get a +1 caster level bonus on your rebuke attempt (which then becomes irrelevant as rebuking is based on a Charisma check and a cleric level check, not a caster level check). Common sense would suggest that it was intended to be a shifted lookup on the Turning Undead lookup table for level of success, and a +1 bonus on the damage roll related to rebuking/commanding.

Nothing about the wording suggests that the bonus lasts beyond the specific casting/rebuking attempt. Even if it did, a bonus source, even an untyped bonus source, can't stack with itself.It's not a bonus, else it would say it's a bonus, and the bonus stacking rules therefore do not apply. It's merely +1 CL, and it's granted to you whenever you rebuke or command unintelligent undead. There's no timeframe granted for how long the bonus lasts, either. If it WAS a bonus, the +1 to CL gained by PrCs wouldn't stack, either, since they're phrased similarly: "+1 level of existing spellcasting class."

RAW, you gain a +1 CL whenever you rebuke or command an unintelligent undead creature. The next time you do so, you gain an additional +1. And the time after that, and...

[Ashtagon]

When used to [do specified actions], it increases your effective caster level by 1.

So logically, when it is not used to [do specified actions], which is pretty much all the rest of the time, it does not increase your caster level by 1.


But yeah, try it on with your GM and see how far you get many books get thrown at you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

When used to [do specified actions], it increases your effective caster level by 1.

So logically, when it is not used to [do specified actions], which is pretty much all the rest of the time, it does not increase your caster level by 1.Yep. It grants you a +1 to your CL each time you use it, and doesn't grant more CLs beyond what it's already given you when you don't. Note that it doesn't say "for the next spell you cast," or whatever, and caster level does not apply to rebuking undead. And unlike the other holy symbols, which are phrased to add to your turning/rebuking check, this explicitly grants it to your caster level when you rebuke. There's really only one way to read it, unless you're houseruling.

[Ashtagon]

It gives you the +1 when you are doing it. When you stop doing it, it stops giving you the bonus. That is a perfectly valid way to ready the wording. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many people who would think that was not the intended meaning, given that most of those holy symbols are worded that way.

[Twurps]

.....

Discuss.

This is not a discussion, its: "I can drive my point home more often than you can".

If it were a discussion, I'd have to side with Ashtagon.