God for investigators

[VenomTongue]

So I am running Barrow of the Forgotten King, and the party is very unoptimized so they got some help in the form of a Wild Elf Urban Ranger. Now I decided to make him lawful evil and a worshipper of Vecna, god of secrets. To my mind Vecna made sense because a detective seeks to uncover secrets.
My question is did I fundamentally misunderstand what Vecna is all about? I mean would Vecna likely help this person or would Vecna/ the cult of Vecna try to kill him on sight?

[Flickerdart]

The cult of Vecna has many levels, and your ranger could fit into a few of them.


The Fingers of Vecna consist mainly of thieves, who engage in various forms of subterfuge. The Blood of Vecna are mainly warriors charged with protection and enforcement of the cult and its goals. The Spawn of Vecna are the lowest in the cult hierarchy, and consist of the common people who honor the Lich Lord.

A detective could place among the Spawn of Vecna, and venerate the Lord of Secrets in a general sort of way. He could be Finger or Blood of Vecna if he split his work between his detective agency and the Cult. It's unlikely he would advance further - detectives seek out human mysteries, while Vecna is interested in the mysteries of magic and divinity (and how to use that magic to steal more divinity).

[BowStreetRunner]

Personally, I believe there is a big difference between discovering secrets and exposing secrets. A worshipper of Vecna would be inclined to want to discover as many secrets as possible and hold that information close to the vest. So investigating for a client and revealing that information to the client, fine. But the investigator would not be inclined to just expose the secrets of others to all and sundry. A worshipper of Vecna would be discreet. Nor would they likely take a client who was interested merely in exposing the truth. They would be more interested in working for people like information brokers, extortioners, and others who want to learn secrets for their own ends.

[The Viscount]

Inquisitors and torturers are comfortably within the portfolio of Afflux, NE Deity described in Libris Mortis

[VenomTongue]

He works for the local constabulary.
So he is in law enforcement.
So which god do you think would be a better fit in the Greyhawk setting? (I don't need him to advance in the church.)

I was imagining him as ambitious, resentful, occassional blackmailer.
Think Charles Augustus Milverton with a badge and a bow.

[mabriss lethe]

He works for the local constabulary.
So he is in law enforcement.
So which god do you think would be a better fit in the Greyhawk setting? (I don't need him to advance in the church.)

I was imagining him as ambitious, resentful, occassional blackmailer.
Think Charles Augustus Milverton with a badge and a bow.
Xan Yae might be an interesting choice, as a neutral patron of shadowy sneaky stuff. (and domains that include Knowledge and trickery)

[weckar]

Delleb or Johydee could both be excellent fits depending where you want to fall on alignment spectrum.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Deities & Demigods lists St. Cuthbert's portfolio as "retribution, common sense, wisdom, zeal, honesty, truth, discipline". Now, this fellow doesn't like E followers, but you can play a very unpleasant N 'the truth must be exposed' sort of character.

[digiman619]

Wouldn't a god for investigators be thematically opposed to a god of secrets? After all, what do successful investigations do if not clear away secrets?

[VenomTongue]

My thinking was that the NPC wants to know secrets, so go to the man in charge.

[Khedrac]

I'd suggest Boccob as a possibility. Whilst he is "the Uncaring" he is also the god of Knowledge - and thus people whose job is finding things out fit quite well with that side of him.

[BowStreetRunner]

So let's take a closer look at this. You have a Lawful Evil Wild Elf Urban Ranger who works for the local constabulary. Fair enough. But Lawful Evil can be many things. What type of Lawful Evil represents this character's morals would have a big impact on what deity he served. Take a look at Red Fel's Guide to Lawful Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil) and see which of those Archetypes best resembles this character and then ask yourself if one of the Greyhawk deities makes more sense than one of the others.

While there may be a LE deity who lines up, I think you'll have to take a close look a the LN deities as well. Savras "The All-Seeing" might make more sense than Vecna as he is more about discovering things (Divination, but this would also line up with Investigation) and revealing them (Truth) as opposed to keeping secrets. But it really partly depends on the basis of the character's alignment too.

[Red Fel]

Well, since my handbook has been mentioned, I may as well chime in.

Knock, knock. Have you heard about Wee Jas?

Seriously, in many ways the Stern Lady is exactly what you want. Wee Jas is a deity of knowledge. Specifically, arcane knowledge, but it gets complicated. You see, when Suel was destroyed in the Rain of Colorless Fire, Wee Jas became responsible not only for arcane knowledge, but - as a patron goddess of Suel - the knowledge of those who died in the destruction. She thus became custodian of knowledge of things past, lost knowledge, and so forth. (Also the dead, but that's another story.)

Unlike Vecna, whose faith advocates learning but keeping secrets, Wee Jas has no qualms about exposing knowledge and truth. She wants her cut, of course, but her faith is strongly in favor of recovering and preserving knowledge. Which could include secrets.

Her faith is also rigidly hierarchical and strongly militant. Consider the Ruby Knight Vindicator PrC in Tome of Battle; they're basically Church Assassins of Wee Jas. They stealth in armor. It's great fun.

Most importantly, the Witch Goddess is LN. She doesn't care about morality. Which means her followers can be LN soldiers, LG holy knights and champions, and LE manipulators and necromancers. So you can have an LE investigator and follower of the Ruby Sorceress. Heck, you can have an LE investigator in direct service to her Church.

[BowStreetRunner]

Have you heard about Wee Jas?

Honestly, I really would love to take any of the multitude of Medical Examiner/Coroner type characters from fiction and port them into a fantasy setting as a Necromancer of Wee Jas who specializes not in raising undead, but rather in learning from the dead. (Too many players these days seem to just characterize Necromancy as creating undead and it can be so much more than that.)

Oh, and btw Red Fel, I only mentioned your name ONCE!!! :smallyuk:

[ryu]

Honestly, I really would love to take any of the multitude of Medical Examiner/Coroner type characters from fiction and port them into a fantasy setting as a Necromancer of Wee Jas who specializes not in raising undead, but rather in learning from the dead. (Too many players these days seem to just characterize Necromancy as creating undead and it can be so much more than that.)

Oh, and btw Red Fel, I only mentioned your name ONCE!!! :smallyuk:

Yeah, you have undead, various forms of mind control that aren't in the school of losing to low level protection spells, undead, debuffing, undead, two extremely powerful defensive high level spells, undead, a few save or dies if you want that, undead, buffs and healing for undead, undead, and of course undead.

[Red Fel]

Oh, and btw Red Fel, I only mentioned your name ONCE!!! :smallyuk:

http://cdn3.dolimg.com/en-US/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/CHERNABOG-GIF.gif

INSOLENT WHELP! Do you think me so devoid of agency that I cannot speak my piece without invocation? Do you think me so weak that I can only pierce the planar barrier upon the invitation of feeble mortal flesh? Do not mistake me for some common fiend!

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-03/4/8/enhanced/webdr01/anigif_enhanced-buzz-31810-1425476394-10.gif

Also, like I said, you mentioned my book, so that got my attention. And frankly, I was surprised nobody mentioned the Stern Lady, because she's the bee's knees.

[VenomTongue]

You only mentioned his name once but after you did I went into the bathroom with the lights off and said it three times in the mirror. My bad.

The party already had a Wee Has worshipper and I wanted to be unique.

[BowStreetRunner]

You only mentioned his name once but after you did I went into the bathroom with the lights off and said it three times in the mirror. My bad.

The party already had a Wee Has worshipper and I wanted to be unique.

You're evil. So just eliminate the other Wee Jas worshipper. Right?!?

So what is it about your character that makes them evil? Otherwise, an investigator for the local constabulary would normally not be evil and we'd have a bunch of other deities to choose from.

[VenomTongue]

After reading your guide, my ranger is a "bad cop." He likes catching criminals, no one complains when you kill criminals.

[A_S]

They stealth in armor.
...without Move Silently as a class skill.

*flips table*

[Red Fel]

...without Move Silently as a class skill.

*flips table*

Oh, that's the beauty of it. They can Hide just fine. You can't see them. But they're wearing heavy freaking armor, so you can hear them. You know they're coming. You don't know from where, or when they'll get here; you can't see them until they're on top of you. But you know they're coming.

Make your peace with the Stern Lady, heretic.

[Flickerdart]

You don't know from where, or when they'll get here; you can't see them until they're on top of you.

Except it's a trivial Listen check to figure that out.

[BowStreetRunner]

After reading your guide, my ranger is a "bad cop." He likes catching criminals, no one complains when you kill criminals.

Wee Jas is still probably your best bet. Society has rules and you can help those who don't follow the rules to a well-earned death.

[Red Fel]

Wee Jas is still probably your best bet. Society has rules and you can help those who don't follow the rules to a well-earned death.

Actually, after hearing the "Bad Cop" description, I'm gonna disagree here. Go with Hextor. Or Bane, depending on setting, but Hextor is better.

Now, Hextor is a god of warfare, that's true. But he's also a god of militaristic and brutal dictatorships, which are pretty much full of guys like your PC. These are societies of perfect order, where crime (or more accurately, unauthorized acts of any kind, criminal or otherwise) are punished with swift, brutal sadism. The kinds of people who gravitate towards law enforcement roles in a Hextorian society tend to fall into one of two categories - the duty-bound big-L little-e LEs, who are severe knights with a chip on their shoulders, and the bullying little-l big-E LEs, who are brutish thugs backed by the full power of the State. These latter are the definitive Bad Cops. That's what you want - a thug who attaches himself to a Church that promises power and unimpeachable authority in exchange for service.

As an aside, why does your character even need a patron deity? Yes, he gets divine spells, but he doesn't necessarily pray to a deity for them. So unless you're in a setting or campaign where having a patron is necessary (e.g. Faerun), why even take one?

[VenomTongue]

Mostly just for flavor. Plus I feel like if you live in a world where the dead come back to life from time to time and general reaction is, "You spent how much on diamond dust!" Any sane person tries to befriend the outsider who controls where you go for eternity.

[BowStreetRunner]

Mostly just for flavor. Plus I feel like if you live in a world where the dead come back to life from time to time and general reaction is, "You spent how much on diamond dust!" Any sane person tries to befriend the outsider who controls where you go for eternity.

Or, you know, just get your hands on an afterlife of your own (http://www.vertigocomics.com/graphic-novels/proposition-player). This is D&D after all. I'm sure the members of the playground would be able to provide you with lots of ideas on how to achieve deity status and manage your own chunk of the outer planes.