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Zerachiel
2016-08-29, 03:15 PM
This is my first homebrew and first post here. This was inspired by the Dragon Age Templar and Seekers abilities so I tried my best for my first homebrew to make the oath balanced.

I felt the paladin didn't have enough utility, so rather than two channel divinity options, I went with one and then added ritual casting. Most rituals are divination, so the spell list and rituals added are meant to allow the paladin to find and learn about enemies or magical items. This made sense because the Seekers in Dragon Age are meant to track down and learn about their enemies, and I wanted to reflect that.

For spells, Obviously some combat is needed, hence the hunters mark and retreat, to allow the paladin to quickly close the distance. Silence because it prevents verbal spells, and Trace because stealth allows them to drop in quickly. Counter-spell and dispel magic because it gives that chance or stopping clutch moments. Arcane eye to track or scout ahead, and DD to teleport there and surprise people. Legend Lore and Scrying for more utility purposes. I hope this build also makes DEX or CHA focused paladins a little more viable, since the spells don't necessarily focus more on combat, but rather your utility and your casting stat.

The actual divinity option is modeled after sacred weapon, but since the save is only once a round on your first attack, it means if they succeed you just do a normal hit, as your weapon is not considered magical. Most monsters have a decent CON score, so likely to sucked. On a fail though, it means spellcasters are practically useless, since unless they cast spells beforehand like haste, etc, they are reduced to weapon attacks or cantrips. Not nearly as strong. I added at-will spells for this because some monsters can do that, and this oath is about negating magic so I felt it needed to be there for some cases.

The 7th, 15th and capstone are the ones I am unsure about. I didn't want to make to powerful, so I felt for the aura trading a spell slot for a slot on monsters was fair, since it requires your ally to hit, your reaction meaning no OA, and you still spend a slot, meaning you lose those quicker. And of course, its only works on spells up to 5th level. I swapped damage because losing a spell slot is way worse, and adding damage felt like too much.

The 15th ability is just a AOE smite, you burn your highest slot available, do that damage to every enemy but spellcasters get hit hard. If they fail there save, being stunned means no nasty spell slots or attacks or at-will spells being thrown your way.

The capstone. I felt the verbal component was strong, since it means no verbal spells for enemies unless they move out of range. But even when out of range, AOE or single target spells need to penetrate the barrier. I chose Charisma for the saving throw since most monsters use Charisma to cast there spells anyways, but at disadvantage so it is more likely they will burn through legendary resistances in order to hit unless they roll well. The final ability is copied from Ancients which just seemed to fit.

Edited changes below with help, making it more save based and adding some clarifications.

The Seekers Oath

This paladin learns to seek and destroy corrupted arcane magic in all forms. Working closely with Knight-Vigilants, these paladin are far better equipped to learn about their enemies. These paladins learn powerful divination and abjuration magics to track wayward mages and to discern where dangerous magic lies in wait to harm innocents. They stop at nothing to protect all people from the dangers of unregulated arcane magics and kill those who delve too deep into the forbidden.

Tenets of the Seeker:

Protect the Innocent. A seeker is a guardian to those innocents, and your first duty is to protect them from unregulated arcane or forbidden magics by investigating, and if need be, hunting those who would destroy or harm the innocent.

Purge the Corrupt. When magic is used for evil, it must be purged and all traces of how to use it wiped out.
For the Future.

Knowledge is power. While evil magic should be purged, there should be a record kept of how exactly to defeat these magics for future heroes to learn and study so it can always be stopped long after your oath has ended.

Channel Divinity:
Dispelling Weapon: As an action, you can imbue one weapon you are holding with dispelling magic. For 1 minute, you add your Charisma modifier to the attack rolls of your weapon (with a minimum bonus of +1) and the first time you strike a spellcaster they must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the target is unable to expend any spell slots or cast any at-will spells until your Channel Divinity has ended. If they succeed on the saving throw, they become immune to this ability for 24 hours. This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips.

Ritual Casting: Starting at third level when you choose this oath, rather than gaining a second Channel Divinity option, you gain the ritual casting feature from the wizard using their spell list, and the spells you choose must have ritual tag. You also gain a spellbook that may only hold ritual spells. Any other ritual spells that are written down, such as in a magical scroll or spellbook, that you come across in your journeys may be learned and transcribed into your book so long as they are of the divination or abjuration magic school, and the ritual spells level can be no higher than half your level (Rounded up). For each level of the spell the process take 2 hours and 50 gp. You automatically gain the following ritual spells Identify and Detect Magic.

Seeker Oath Spells:
3rd- Expeditious Retreat, Hunter’s Mark
5th- Pass without a Trace, Silence
9th –Counter spell, Dispel Magic
13th- Arcane Eye, Dimension Door
17th- Legend Lore, Scrying


Abjuration Aura
Beginning at 7th level, your powerful abjuration magic creates an aura. You gain the ability to smite using your allies’ attacks to do so and your reaction by expending a spell slot as normal. When an ally within 10 feet of you hits an enemy creature, you can choose as a reaction to expend a spell slot to divine smite but rather than doing damage, you can instead drain a spell slot from the caster equal to the spell slot you expended. The target must make a Constitution saving throw or have the spell slot expended. Example: You spend a first level slot to smite, and instead of damage, you take one 1st level spell slot away from the target. This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips.

At 18th level, this aura increases to 30 feet.

Holy Smite
Starting at 15th level, you gain the ability to call down a burst of divine energy on every single enemy creature. As an action on your turn, you expend your highest remaining spell slot to cast your divine smite ability on all enemy creatures within a 20 foot radius. All normal enemies must make a Dexterity saving throw or take damage equal to your normal divine smite damage. On a success, they take half damage. Any enemy creature who can cast at-will spells or has spell slots does not take this damage, but instead must make a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn. At the end of their turn, stunned creatures can make another Constitution saving throw to shrug off the effects. This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips.

Right of Annulment
At 20th level, as an action, you emanate an aura complete nullification for 1 minute which has the following effects.
• Any enemy creature within 30 foot radius of you cannot cast any spells that have a verbal component.
• Enemy spells that are cast outside the barrier and who attempt to pierce it with a spell, like Fireball, Hold Person or Fire Storm must make a Charisma saving throw in order for their spell to pierce the barrier.
• Enemy creatures within 10 feet of you have disadvantage on saving throws against your paladin spells and Channel Divinity.

Once you use this feature, you cannot do so again until you finish a long rest. This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips.


Thats my homebrew, I'd love to hear any feedback and whether people think the trading your spell slot to destroy one of their spells slots is too powerful and whether the ritual casting is worth it for the trade of not having a second divinity option in addition to everything else. I'm going to be playtesting it in some of my games I GM, let my players try it out and see if it works.

Rerem115
2016-08-29, 04:23 PM
Let's run through this from the top down:

Channel Divinity--This is just the Oath of Devotion's CD, so no issues on the damage, but that is a serious save-or-suck that you can repeat each turn. Also, no mention on how it interacts with magical, non-spell abilities, such as draconic breath weapons. It's fairly situational, but this class is already ahead of the curve.

Ritual Casting--This provides an absolutely silly level of utility, especially since you don't explicitly have to encounter the spell in written form, so you could theoretically transcribe every ritual Divination/Abjuration spell. Granted, it's all out of combat, but this is far better than the secondary CD of any Paladin, except maybe the Oath of Vengeance (Although, let's face it. We all know VoE is the Vengeance Pally's primary CD). I'd recommend treating it like the Ritual Caster feat, where you have to find the written form or know the spell already, so you don't have 3rd level Paladins with more ritual spells than non-ritual spells.

Oath Spells--Nothing of unacceptable power level, but Hunter's Mark and the level of utility this list provides bumps this up to above average strength. Also, Dispel Magic is already on the Paladin's spell list.

Abjuration Aura--Should probably allow a save against losing a spell slot; it's save-or-suck without the save. Despite this, this is of extremely limited utility, and is probably at or below average, but the lack of a save brings this up to overbearing in certain circumstances.

Holy Smite--What.


The 15th ability is just a AOE smite

JUST an AoE SMITE. There's no action requirement listed, so I'm going to assume that you can do this whenever you could normally use Divine Smite. There's also no range. Thus, RAW, you could deal 24d8 (Dual Wielding Improved Divine Smite, Haste) radiant damage to every creature on every plane of existence, with no attack roll and no save, and then again the next round. What. To top it all off, it's also a save-or-suck for spellcasters.

This needs a range, so you can't kill entire planes of existence. This needs a save to avoid at least some of the smite damage; you can't have an unavoidable AoE. It should probably take an action, so you don't make the Evocation Wizard jealous. Lastly, stunned creatures should be allowed to repeat the save at either the beginning or the end of their turn.

Right of Annulment--Y'know, since it's a capstone and it's so situational, I really don't have a problem with most of this. However, piercing the barrier should probably not impose disadvantage; that's just too much.

One last thing: How does this class interact with magical and/or spell-like abilities that aren't strictly spells?

Zerachiel
2016-08-29, 09:42 PM
Thank you for pointing those out, I didn't think of everything so I was hoping someone would point out big flaws that I missed. As I said this is my first time home-brewing something and my first draft.

For magical or spell like abilities they are unaffected. That is why I only put at-will spells or spell slots. I didn't think about breath weapons or magic type abilities. The divinity or smites or auras would have no effect on those. I have added this text to each ability:

This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips

I did model it after the devotion so at least that part was alright. For the channel divinity, I was debating making it something you save against only once, similar to how if you are frightened once you succeed it no longer affects you, but I was unsure and then it has no effect on the person for subsequent hits, but I wasn't sure if I did that would I need to add something different to it. Since it is a save or suck, I feel your right in that it should be only once, and if it succeeds once it is immune to that secondary part of the ability. As for non-magical abilities, it doesn't affect those and it wasn't something I thought of. IT was very specific to spells slots and at will abilities, like the Cloud giants at will detect magic, etc. I just didn't think that was something that needed to specified in, since things like dragon breath while magical, are not listed as an at-will spell in the monster manual. I will add that specification though and get rid of the each round ability. Any other tips on this would help, but it now reads

Dispelling Weapon: As an action, you can imbue one weapon you are holding with dispelling magic. For 1 minute, you add your Charisma modifier to the attack rolls of your weapon (with a minimum bonus of +1) and the first time you strike a spellcaster they must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the target is unable to expend any spell slots or cast any at-will spells until your Channel Divinity has ended. If they succeed on the saving throw, they become immune to this ability for 24 hours. This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips.

For ritual casting, this was difficult. The idea behind the archetype was that would be more of a caster feel to it, and by limiting rituals to divination or abjuration (which I don't think there are any on the wizard spell list), the information gained is dependent on the DM. So it could be very useful, or not all. Again, I did mean to say written form, but didn't actually write that down in there so that has been changed promptly. It also limited it to the wizard spell list, so no cleric, druid, bard, sorcerer, or warlock ritual spells. Also, the one caveat to it was the paladin had to have the spell slots appropiate to the ritual. So 3rd level paladins would only be able to learn first level ritual spells. But I didn't think about the ritual feat, and have changed it appropriately to reflect that feat. It now reads

Ritual Casting: Starting at third level when you choose this oath, rather than gaining a second Channel Divinity option, you gain the ritual casting feature from the wizard using their spell list, and the spells you choose must have ritual tag. You also gain a spellbook that may only hold ritual spells. Any other ritual spells that are written down, such as in a magical scroll or spellbook, that you come across in your journeys may be learned and transcribed into your book so long as they are of the divination or abjuration magic school, and the ritual spells level can be no higher than half your level (Rounded up). For each level of the spell the process take 2 hours and 50 gp. You automatically gain the following ritual spells Identify and Detect Magic.

For the oath spells, the idea was to create more utility. Expeditious retreat to run mages down, hunters mark to be able to find them if they run away. It fit thematically. I'm not sure what could replace hunter marks, as hex would be similar. Th oath is meant to track mages. I thought perhaps Tasha laughter or some other spell that incapacitates people could be swapped out. But yes silence and pass without a trace are meant to make the paladin better at sneaking in general, something they normally suck hard at. I didn't realize dispel magic was on the list, so I will change that. I thoughts perhaps Slow, Non detection, Hypnotic Pattern. Spells that incapacitate a foe. I personally didn't feel the spells were above average again just adding a lot of utility. What recommendations for spell changes would you give? I could see hunters mark and dispel magic changed, but the others I didn't feel were too powerful since they have no combat use, merely scouting or learning about enemies. It helps with planning which paladins don't really give off they are more "go in headfirst and kill all evil".

For the 7th level ability, I didn't add a save because it is based on the slot expenditure, and the normal divine smite doesn't require it. The overbearing circumstances in my mind wasn't that bad because a boss that can cast spells usually has legendary resistances, the aura was designed to burn those down if possible similar to how classes can do so. I felt adding a save would the aura even worse since it has no use except in those exact circumstances. Since you point out the utility the spells bring though, the save might make it the archetype slightly more balanced. If it fails, it still might burn a resistance. Added, it now reads

Abjuration Aura
Beginning at 7th level, your powerful abjuration magic creates an aura. You gain the ability to smite using your allies’ attacks to do so and your reaction by expending a spell slot as normal. When an ally within 10 feet of you hits an enemy creature, you can choose as a reaction to expend a spell slot to divine smite but rather than doing damage, you can instead drain a spell slot from the caster equal to the spell slot you expended. The target must make a Constitution saving throw or have the spell slot expended. Example: You spend a first level slot to smite, and instead of damage, you take one 1st level spell slot away from the target.
At 18th level, this aura increases to 30 feet.

For 15 I feel really dumb, I didn't put down as an action to do the ability, and I had it with a 20 foot radius but evidently it did not copy over. My bad. It was never meant to go with two attacks a round, it was supposed to be your full action, fixed now. I also added two saving throws, Dex & Con, so spellcasters take no damage but can be stunned; while normal enemies take damage, but can't be stunned. Hopefully that bring sit up to par and makes usable against normal people but still useful against casters.

Holy Smite
Starting at 15th level, you gain the ability to call down a burst of divine energy on every single enemy creature. As an action on your turn, you expend your highest remaining spell slot to cast your divine smite ability on all enemy creatures within a 20 foot radius. All normal enemies must make a Dexterity saving throw take damage equal to your normal divine smite damage. Any enemy creature who can cast at-will spells or has spell slots does not take this damage, but instead must make a Constitution saving throw or be stunned. At the end of their turn stunned creatures can make another Constitution saving throw to shrug off the effects.

The capstone for disadvantage on the spell to pierce the barrier was the iffy part about it, as I wasn't sure imposing disadvantage was too much. Changed it so it no longer grants that. It now reads

Right of Annulment
At 20th level, as an action, you emanate an aura complete nullification for 1 minute which has the following effects.
• Any enemy creature within 30 foot radius of you cannot cast any spells that have a verbal component.
• Enemy spells that are cast outside the barrier and who attempt to pierce it with a spell, like Fireball, Hold Person or Fire Storm must make a Charisma saving throw in order for their spell to pierce the barrier.
• Enemy creatures within 10 feet of you have disadvantage on saving throws against your paladin spells and Channel Divinity.
Once you use this feature, you cannot do so again until you finish a long rest.

How does it strike you now? More balanced or should I add more saves to abilities or change spells out?

Rerem115
2016-08-29, 09:51 PM
It looks fine. The Oath spells are probably fine as is; they're pretty good, but more or less in line with the Vengeance Paladin, who also gets Hunter's Mark and some utility spells.

When I said they were above average, it was mostly Hunter's Mark that brought me to that conclusion. That spell provides a deceptive amount of damage with a single spell, but since you're going to be expending spells with you aura, it would be fair to leave it in.

Zerachiel
2016-08-29, 10:06 PM
Cool, the game I run I had a player who interested in playing something like this and I wanted to build something like it. Just needed to know what might work. Did you have idea for dispel magic to replace? Realizing its on the paladin list makes me think to change it but I was unsure of what might work. Hypnotic pattern, non detection, sending, and slow were my ideas, since they incapacitate people or add more ultitiy? Or leave as is? Thanks for the feedback on the abilities and making sure I needed to more specific on what it effects. I might try a fighter version of this now.

Sariel Vailo
2016-09-02, 04:49 PM
[QUOTE=Zerachiel;21151316]This is my first homebrew and first post here. This was inspired by the Dragon Age Templar and Seekers abilities so I tried my best for my first homebrew to make the oath balanced.

I felt the paladin didn't have enough utility, so rather than two channel divinity options, I went with one and then added ritual casting. Most rituals are divination, so the spell list and rituals added are meant to allow the paladin to find and learn about enemies or magical items. This made sense because the Seekers in Dragon Age are meant to track down and learn about their enemies, and I wanted to reflect that.

For spells, Obviously some combat is needed, hence the hunters mark and retreat, to allow the paladin to quickly close the distance. Silence because it prevents verbal spells, and Trace because stealth allows them to drop in quickly. Counter-spell and dispel magic because it gives that chance or stopping clutch moments. Arcane eye to track or scout ahead, and DD to teleport there and surprise people. Legend Lore and Scrying for more utility purposes. I hope this build also makes DEX or CHA focused paladins a little more viable, since the spells don't necessarily focus more on combat, but rather your utility and your casting stat.

The actual divinity option is modeled after sacred weapon, but since the save is only once a round on your first attack, it means if they succeed you just do a normal hit, as your weapon is not considered magical. Most monsters have a decent CON score, so likely to sucked. On a fail though, it means spellcasters are practically useless, since unless they cast spells beforehand like haste, etc, they are reduced to weapon attacks or cantrips. Not nearly as strong. I added at-will spells for this because some monsters can do that, and this oath is about negating magic so I felt it needed to be there for some cases.

The 7th, 15th and capstone are the ones I am unsure about. I didn't want to make to powerful, so I felt for the aura trading a spell slot for a slot on monsters was fair, since it requires your ally to hit, your reaction meaning no OA, and you still spend a slot, meaning you lose those quicker. And of course, its only works on spells up to 5th level. I swapped damage because losing a spell slot is way worse, and adding damage felt like too much.

The 15th ability is just a AOE smite, you burn your highest slot available, do that damage to every enemy but spellcasters get hit hard. If they fail there save, being stunned means no nasty spell slots or attacks or at-will spells being thrown your way.

The capstone. I felt the verbal component was strong, since it means no verbal spells for enemies unless they move out of range. But even when out of range, AOE or single target spells need to penetrate the barrier. I chose Charisma for the saving throw since most monsters use Charisma to cast there spells anyways, but at disadvantage so it is more likely they will burn through legendary resistances in order to hit unless they roll well. The final ability is copied from Ancients which just seemed to fit.

Edited changes below with help, making it more save based and adding some clarifications.

The Seekers Oath

This paladin learns to seek and destroy corrupted arcane magic in all forms. Working closely with Knight-Vigilants, these paladin are far better equipped to learn about their enemies. These paladins learn powerful divination and abjuration magics to track wayward mages and to discern where dangerous magic lies in wait to harm innocents. They stop at nothing to protect all people from the dangers of unregulated arcane magics and kill those who delve too deep into the forbidden.

Tenets of the Seeker:

Protect the Innocent. A seeker is a guardian to those innocents, and your first duty is to protect them from unregulated arcane or forbidden magics by investigating, and if need be, hunting those who would destroy or harm the innocent.

Purge the Corrupt. When magic is used for evil, it must be purged and all traces of how to use it wiped out.
For the Future.

Knowledge is power. While evil magic should be purged, there should be a record kept of how exactly to defeat these magics for future heroes to learn and study so it can always be stopped long after your oath has ended.

Channel Divinity:
Dispelling Weapon: As an action, you can imbue one weapon you are holding with dispelling magic. For 1 minute, you add your Charisma modifier to the attack rolls of your weapon (with a minimum bonus of +1) and the first time you strike a spellcaster they must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the target is unable to expend any spell slots or cast any at-will spells until your Channel Divinity has ended. If they succeed on the saving throw, they become immune to this ability for 24 hours. This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips.

Ritual Casting: Starting at third level when you choose this oath, rather than gaining a second Channel Divinity option, you gain the ritual casting feature from the wizard using their spell list, and the spells you choose must have ritual tag. You also gain a spellbook that may only hold ritual spells. Any other ritual spells that are written down, such as in a magical scroll or spellbook, that you come across in your journeys may be learned and transcribed into your book so long as they are of the divination or abjuration magic school, and the ritual spells level can be no higher than half your level (Rounded up). For each level of the spell the process take 2 hours and 50 gp. You automatically gain the following ritual spells Identify and Detect Magic.

Seeker Oath Spells:
3rd- Expeditious Retreat, Hunter’s Mark
5th- Pass without a Trace, Silence
9th –Counter spell, Dispel Magic
13th- Arcane Eye, Dimension Door
17th- Legend Lore, Scrying


Abjuration Aura
Beginning at 7th level, your powerful abjuration magic creates an aura. You gain the ability to smite using your allies’ attacks to do so and your reaction by expending a spell slot as normal. When an ally within 10 feet of you hits an enemy creature, you can choose as a reaction to expend a spell slot to divine smite but rather than doing damage, you can instead drain a spell slot from the caster equal to the spell slot you expended. The target must make a Constitution saving throw or have the spell slot expended. Example: You spend a first level slot to smite, and instead of damage, you take one 1st level spell slot away from the target. This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips.

At 18th level, this aura increases to 30 feet.

Holy Smite
Starting at 15th level, you gain the ability to call down a burst of divine energy on every single enemy creature. As an action on your turn, you expend your highest remaining spell slot to cast your divine smite ability on all enemy creatures within a 20 foot radius. All normal enemies must make a Dexterity saving throw or take damage equal to your normal divine smite damage. On a success, they take half damage. Any enemy creature who can cast at-will spells or has spell slots does not take this damage, but instead must make a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn. At the end of their turn, stunned creatures can make another Constitution saving throw to shrug off the effects. This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips.

Right of Annulment
At 20th level, as an action, you emanate an aura complete nullification for 1 minute which has the following effects.
• Any enemy creature within 30 foot radius of you cannot cast any spells that have a verbal component.
• Enemy spells that are cast outside the barrier and who attempt to pierce it with a spell, like Fireball, Hold Person or Fire Storm must make a Charisma saving throw in order for their spell to pierce the barrier.
• Enemy creatures within 10 feet of you have disadvantage on saving throws against your paladin spells and Channel Divinity.

Once you use this feature, you cannot do so again until you finish a long rest. This ability does not affect spells that are already active such as concentration spells like haste, duration based spells like spiritual weapon, magical non-spell abilities like draconic breath weapons, a beholders eye beams, etc. and Cantrips.


Thats my homebrew, I'd love to hear any feedback and whether people think the trading your spell slot to destroy one of their spells slots is too powerful and whether the ritual casting is worth it for the trade of not having a second divinity option in addition to everything else. I'm going to be playtesting it in some of my games I GM, let my players try it out and see if it works.[/QUOT/] ahem Dragon age much