Undead Leadership

[Hurnn]

I have a Player who wants to take this feat but as I read it it seams super horrible.

It adds 4 to your leadership score for an undead follower but unless your score was terrible before that doesn't seam to do much and they can still only be 2 ECL behind you. As I understand that means at level 6 they can get a 4 hd skeleton/zombie or, a monster pc of level 4.

Am I missing something?

[OldTrees1]

Level: Feat Taken
6th: Undead Leadership
9th: Leadership
12th: Improved Cohort

Undead Leadership gives you a +4 to your leadership score which does not remove the level cap for cohorts but keeps you qualifying for max level cohorts for longer than your Cha would otherwise. If you already stay at max level via your Cha, then the +4 has no real benefit but no penalty.

[Segev]

It's worth noting that Wizards are not known for their Charisma, and yet are often desirous to be minionmancers.

It's also interesting that Undead Leadership doesn't prevent you from having normal cohorts. Nor does Leadership prevent you from having undead cohorts or followers.

It's cheesy, but you technically can have both.

[Inevitability]

(Undead) Leadership isn't that bad at all. It gives you two things: a cohort and a bunch of minions. The minions can be used for mass-producing mundane equipment or guarding your base. The cohort is essentially a second PC, just a bit weaker than your main one.

An ECL 4 character won't have trouble fighting CR 6 monsters, and the power difference only gets smaller as the character's leadership score increases.

[LastOblivion]

I once created a necromancer bard with Undead leadership.

The entire point if the feat use was allow him to have his own orchestra of the damned.

[Ruethgar]

It should also be noted that Necropolitians are viable and powerful cohorts and followers with no ECL adjustment. Also Undead Leadership(LM), Undead Leadership(Web), can stack with Leadership and Extra Followers for 6x the normal number. And Undead Leadership(Web) also has early entry shenanigans that can be used with it. It should be noted that both Undead Leaderships modify your Leadership Score flat out as opposed to only with that feat, letting you to ignore cruelty, death of a follower, animal companion, fairness and generator and giving you a significant boost to your score so you don't have to invest as much into it(not that it's hard to get max) and also significantly improving Epic Leadership.

[Hurnn]

It should also be noted that Necropolitians are viable and powerful cohorts and followers with no ECL adjustment. Also Undead Leadership(LM), Undead Leadership(Web), can stack with Leadership and Extra Followers for 6x the normal number. And Undead Leadership(Web) also has early entry shenanigans that can be used with it. It should be noted that both Undead Leaderships modify your Leadership Score flat out as opposed to only with that feat, letting you to ignore cruelty, death of a follower, animal companion, fairness and generator and giving you a significant boost to your score so you don't have to invest as much into it(not that it's hard to get max) and also significantly improving Epic Leadership.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to the web version would you?

[OldTrees1]

You wouldn't happen to have a link to the web version would you?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x

[Troacctid]

I have a Player who wants to take this feat but as I read it it seams super horrible.

It adds 4 to your leadership score for an undead follower but unless your score was terrible before that doesn't seam to do much and they can still only be 2 ECL behind you. As I understand that means at level 6 they can get a 4 hd skeleton/zombie or, a monster pc of level 4.

So if you normally had a leadership score of, say, 12, the Leadership feat would give you eight 1st level followers. The Undead Leadership feat would give you a +2 bonus to your leadership score for the purpose of attracting undead followers, so you could have fifteen 1st level undead followers and one 2nd level undead follower.

Am I missing something?
Your cohort is capped by your level. Your followers are not. Undead Leadership boosts your leadership score for the purpose of undead followers. Undead cohorts are unaffected by the bonus and are attracted normally.


Also Undead Leadership(LM), Undead Leadership(Web), can stack with Leadership and Extra Followers for 6x the normal number. And Undead Leadership(Web) also has early entry shenanigans that can be used with it. It should be noted that both Undead Leaderships modify your Leadership Score flat out as opposed to only with that feat, letting you to ignore cruelty, death of a follower, animal companion, fairness and generator and giving you a significant boost to your score so you don't have to invest as much into it(not that it's hard to get max) and also significantly improving Epic Leadership.
The web version is defunct 3.0 content, rendered obsolete by the updated 3.5 version in Libris Mortis. Only the Libris Mortis version should be used in a 3.5 game where both sources are included.

[Ruethgar]

The web version is defunct 3.0 content, rendered obsolete by the updated 3.5 version in Libris Mortis. Only the Libris Mortis version should be used in a 3.5 game where both sources are included.

I didn't find anything in LM that said it is an update of older content(such as is the case in the Spell Compendium and other books), but this is an entirely reasonable ruling. I was merely pointing it out as a potential option. Also to note that there are multiple undead leaderships and it would be best to specify in the future.

[Inevitability]

I didn't find anything in LM that said it is an update of older content(such as is the case in the Spell Compendium and other books), but this is an entirely reasonable ruling. I was merely pointing it out as a potential option. Also to note that there are multiple undead leaderships and it would be best to specify in the future.

3.0 content is illegal if a 3.5 version of it exists.

[Ruethgar]

3.0 content is illegal if a 3.5 version of it exists.

Only if it is an update, which is unclear in this instance. However, as 3.0 content in a 3.5 world it falls to the DM to update it and say "To hell if I'm letting you take Leadership three times!"

[Segev]

"Natural Spell" appears in the 3.5 PHB, and existed in (I think) Masters of the Wild in 3.0. Nothing in the PHB says "this is an update of the 3.0 version" for that feat.

Likewise, with Libris Mortis printing a feat with an identical name, Undead Leadership is updated in 3.5 from anything in 3.0 that goes by that name.