Sloobluboop post Demogorgon

[solomani]

Hi all,

Wondering if any other DMs had this happen or thought about it. My players (correctly!) fled into the tunnels around Sloobluboop once Demogorgon turned up. However they were depending on the kuo-toa to provide them with food to push towards their next destination. Demogorgon's rampage put an end to that idea. My players have decided to hide out for a day or so until Demogorgon has moved on and then try and scour what is left of Sloobluboop for food and potentially a boat. I think thats a good idea. Here is what I am thinking as a DM but would love to get feedback from other DMs on this (whether you have played Out of the Abyss or not):


Demogorgon retreats to the lake dephs after demoplishing Slooblubloop
Shuushar has become the de-facto leader of the surviving kuo-toa granting the players some protection from vengeful kuo-toa who may blame them for the disaster.
Grabbing a boat is fine, no issue here.
Scavenging for food shouldnt be straight forward but should be easier than the normal Underdark checks. I was thinking of allowing all the players to make a DC 10 Survival check to scavenge food and water and thats all they can find in the wreckage (I actually use survival days ala Darksun to abstract this a bit).



I may also throw in a horde of ixitxachitl who come during the night to finish off the kuo-toa giving the players a chance to help or abandon the kuo-toa once and for all (which may have consequences in my later campaigns).

[Grubble]

My players had a lot of discussion on going back, which as an aside is such a great thing from a DM perspective as it gives me so many ideas. Anyway, they eventually decided to not go back as they figured other things might've followed Demogorgon out of the Abyss when he came through.

[Gastronomie]

I think those are pretty good, and mostly fit my view on how I'm gonna run it.

I'm currently DM'ing the end of Chapter 1 of OotA. Since the players were pretty interested when they heard about Sloobludop from Shuushar, I'm thinking about letting them explore around the village a bit more before they actually get involved in the final ritual.

For one, the party bard has had her tongue cut off by Ilvara due to her near-terrifying obnoxiousness (long story), and Shuushar claimed that his brother may be able to regrow it (I made Ploopploopeen, the high priest of the Sea Mother, to be Shuushar's brother). Perhaps some role-playing pertaining to that.

Also, have the party perhaps claim some goods at a trading center. I can't imagine the Kuo-Toa using currency, so it will mostly be trade and negotiation (finding out that certain, seemingly useless goods the party collected among the path are valuable and precious for the Kuo-Toa could be an interesting moment). Or they could perhaps help the Kuo-Toa fish, using their skills or magical abilities, and in return, gain some goodies, as well as a share of the fish.

...But these don't work in your case, so getting back on topic...

Personally, I think it's best to make it that when the players go back after a day, they can't find any Kuo-Toa left alive (that's how I'm gonna do it). If they find some Kuo-Toa trying to rebuild the city straight after Demogorgon's attack, it might seem like the Demon Lords aren't that much of a threat after all. To keep their image be intimidating and absolute, I believe it's better to make it seem like the settlement is now completely devastated and now unhospitable.

Demogorgon has already left the scene, but his remnants (gigantic footprints, places where the tentacles smashed apart a building) are left everywhere, and around them, there may be certain bizzare phenomenons, like the puddles of water constantly changing color, weird light emitting from cracks in the planks, places where blobs of inky magical darkness are formed randomly and can't be dispersed, and so on.

The players might mistake the Kuo-Toa for being all dead, but I'd have it that actually they're just hiding somewhere else, in an emergency shelter beneath the waves or something. Just like you, I'm gonna have Shuushar be their new leader, though. (Perhaps I'll also make it seem like Shuushar was killed in the chaos that ensued when Demogorgon rose, maybe smashed under his feet while praying for the safety of this village or something.)

My main goal is to get the players be surprised. I'm thinking of having the players eventually re-visit Sloobludop after a while (to be exact, when collecting the material components required for the ritual to summon all the Demon Lords in one place), or alternatively, having Shuushar's lot come to aid the players in the final battle against the Demon Lords. In doing so, it's more fun if it becomes a surprise for the players, who assumed they're all dead.

That's how I'd do it, but as for mechanic stuff, I think it'll be about the same as what you mentioned. Perhaps make it more interesting fluff-wise by having someone's failed Survival check result in him finding food... except it's now ruined due to influence from Demogorgon, like perhaps the fish have two heads and their gills resemble tentacles, which are still flailing around despite being half-rotten and definitely dead, and stuff like that.

EDIT: Unrelated to this thread directly, but a place where I randomly throw up my ideas pertaining to OotA (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493065-Original-Ideas-for-Out-of-the-Abyss), if you're interested. Also has links to other peoples' ideas.

[Ashdate]

We're my players to go back to Sloopoodooop (sp) I think I'd rather play it as a complete disaster zone. Few kuo'toa left, and little to no useful supplies. By the book, it's the only real civilization that is guaranteed to get absolutely wrecked by a demon lord, and I think that makes it a good candidate to show the players "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS."

(An aside, I've read another DM do this for Gracklstugh, which is a neat idea too, although I was happy with what I did for the Duergar, which is have a fake demogorgan cult led by Fraz' trying to eliminate the actual Demogorgan cult. I posted about it somewhere here if you want more details).

Also, depending on your party composition (and whether you're running survival checks by the book) I would be tempted not to give the players any breaks here. In a few levels magic is likely to trivialize survival, so why not put your PCs in high edge?

If they want food, they clearly need to take what's left from survivors (ickitchticickwjdjdd's, whatever the demon manta rays are called, could easily cut off their fishing) so if they want food, make them understand the consequences on the kuo toa survivors.

And boats? They're either smashed or heavily damaged. Perfect for giving them a not-keel boat that can actually be threatened by darklake hazards/monsters (per the DMG the boats the kuo toa have have damage reduction that trivializes the travel hazards on the darklake).

[solomani]

All great ideas, thanks everyone!

[Falcon X]

Great thoughts. A few notes:
A. You must address the effect Demogorgon has had on the Kuo-Toa.
- They could possibly be the only sentient creatures in existence who are immune to his madness, seeing as they are already so insane themselves. Possibly they get more sane. If Shuushar is still alive, he could tell you this. Who knows how players might think to exploit this...
- If they ARE affected, it must be profound. Look at the Demogorgon monster entry. Maybe a few have sprouted second heads...
- One or several of the kuo-toa might have decided to remain loyal to Demogorgon even after he destroyed everything. Perhapse they are attempting to follow him through the Underdark (bad idea). This could come up later in the game (side-plot!)

B. Boats! This seems like a fine idea, though I would be prepared to do some interesting things on the Darklake.
- The Treasure Hunter side-quest provides foreshadowing to Dawnbringer. Find it here: http://dungeonsmaster.com/2015/10/dd-encounters-out-of-the-abyss-episode-2-2/
- Give thought to how they approach their next destination. If it is Gracklestugh, the Duergar might see them well before they get there.
- If you want them to eventually travel by land, they could possibly be swept into the Oozing Temple from the water. Perhaps they hit an unavoidable waterfall that sucks them down into the temple into a lake or river formed beneath. You'll have to modify it a bit, but it could end up being fun.

C. Scavenging for food might be easier due to creatures wanting to be near a water source. This also means there might be bigger monsters too. Give thought to a stronger ecosystem nearby.

D. What might be found in the ruins? Though the Kuo-Toa are fairly poor, there might be riches or secrets to be found.
- A low-level magic staff one of the leaders used to command fish, induce dreams, speak to their goddess, or some other small miracle.
- A hidden tunnel is discovered underneath a hut. Could be a Society of Brilliance outpost. Could be some new creatures (In my game I used Many-As-One (http://torment.wikia.com/wiki/Many-as-One), AKA the Mind Flayer goddesses eyes and ears). Could be the Frog God's Thane from 3.5s Complete Scoundrel. Heck, there could be a magical gate to somewhere you want them to go.

E. Shuushar
- If he survives everything and his people don't, he would be an excellent candidate for the Society of Brilliance.
- Somewhere in the book does lead me to believe, as you say, that he would try to be a leader of his people. I think this is the best default course of action.

[Pex]

Someone needs to say it.

Demogorgon? Cast Fireball at it!

[solomani]

Thanks Falcon. I actually created a 5e version of Many-as-One for my previous campaign :)


Someone needs to say it.

Demogorgon? Cast Fireball at it!

"No! PROTECTION SPELL!"

[INDYSTAR188]

Hi all,

Wondering if any other DMs had this happen or thought about it. My players (correctly!) fled into the tunnels around Sloobluboop once Demogorgon turned up. However they were depending on the kuo-toa to provide them with food to push towards their next destination. Demogorgon's rampage put an end to that idea. My players have decided to hide out for a day or so until Demogorgon has moved on and then try and scour what is left of Sloobluboop for food and potentially a boat. I think thats a good idea. Here is what I am thinking as a DM but would love to get feedback from other DMs on this (whether you have played Out of the Abyss or not):


Demogorgon retreats to the lake dephs after demoplishing Slooblubloop
Shuushar has become the de-facto leader of the surviving kuo-toa granting the players some protection from vengeful kuo-toa who may blame them for the disaster.
Grabbing a boat is fine, no issue here.
Scavenging for food shouldnt be straight forward but should be easier than the normal Underdark checks. I was thinking of allowing all the players to make a DC 10 Survival check to scavenge food and water and thats all they can find in the wreckage (I actually use survival days ala Darksun to abstract this a bit).



I may also throw in a horde of ixitxachitl who come during the night to finish off the kuo-toa giving the players a chance to help or abandon the kuo-toa once and for all (which may have consequences in my later campaigns).

This seems entirely appropriate and reasonable given the situation. In my OotA game we have just gotten into the garden of welcome at neverlight grove, the party is level 5. In sloopbludop the pcs stole a boat after a demogorgon tentacle destroyed the place they hid. The cleric in particular is getting to level 3 madness too.

[Shining Wrath]

First, Kuo-toa are insane by definition, so any relationships established before Demogorgon arrives are now not necessarily intact, or even remembered. High stress situations are not good for the stability of those inclined to be unstable. Secondly, they may very well have adopted Demogorgon as a new deity and / or added features from him to one or more already established "deities". In which case they may very well be looking for sacrifices for their new "god" and the party is it.

After a city is devastated looting the rubble is something that the locals normally object to. That's their stuff, or their friends' stuff, or their family's stuff. And food is in short supply for everyone - the definition of a city is pretty much "community large enough that it imports food from outside every day", and deliveries may be somewhat disrupted by a Demon Lord laying waste to the region.

I'd say they need to make some good survival checks to locate food.

The Underdark being the fun place it is, the local scavengers / predators are doubtless out in force. Kuo-toa corpses are being dragged off into the darkness followed by the sounds of devouring. And maybe some not-so-dead fish guys, too. Does the party help them?

[solomani]

First, Kuo-toa are insane by definition, so any relationships established before Demogorgon arrives are now not necessarily intact, or even remembered. High stress situations are not good for the stability of those inclined to be unstable. Secondly, they may very well have adopted Demogorgon as a new deity and / or added features from him to one or more already established "deities". In which case they may very well be looking for sacrifices for their new "god" and the party is it.

After a city is devastated looting the rubble is something that the locals normally object to. That's their stuff, or their friends' stuff, or their family's stuff. And food is in short supply for everyone - the definition of a city is pretty much "community large enough that it imports food from outside every day", and deliveries may be somewhat disrupted by a Demon Lord laying waste to the region.

I'd say they need to make some good survival checks to locate food.

The Underdark being the fun place it is, the local scavengers / predators are doubtless out in force. Kuo-toa corpses are being dragged off into the darkness followed by the sounds of devouring. And maybe some not-so-dead fish guys, too. Does the party help them?

Good points all. One thing unusual about my adventure to keep in mind regarding the insanity is that Shuusher isnt talking BS when he said he found enlightenment and is probably the only sane Kuo-toa around. I can't link the NPC stablock I made for him one one of his abilities include an aura of sanity:

Zen. Any creature who has spent time with Shuushar the Awakened (an ally that has spent a week or more in his company) and is within 10 feet of him automatically gains +2 on all Wisdom saving throws.

So in my mind I had the following sequence - if he survives to get to Sloodublop then survives the rise of Lemoorgorgoon and all the kuo-toa leadership is wiped out he would be able to not only assert control but his ability to actually protect a creatures sanity would attract the survivors to him to rebuild.

The scavenger part I will definitely use (one of the reasons I mentioned the return of a the Ixla-how-do-you-spell-these-buggers-name). I may even chuck in a "fishy" demon if they hang around too long in Slooblop).

[Shining Wrath]

Good points all. One thing unusual about my adventure to keep in mind regarding the insanity is that Shuusher isnt talking BS when he said he found enlightenment and is probably the only sane Kuo-toa around. I can't link the NPC stablock I made for him one one of his abilities include an aura of sanity:

Zen. Any creature who has spent time with Shuushar the Awakened (an ally that has spent a week or more in his company) and is within 10 feet of him automatically gains +2 on all Wisdom saving throws.

So in my mind I had the following sequence - if he survives to get to Sloodublop then survives the rise of Lemoorgorgoon and all the kuo-toa leadership is wiped out he would be able to not only assert control but his ability to actually protect a creatures sanity would attract the survivors to him to rebuild.

The scavenger part I will definitely use (one of the reasons I mentioned the return of a the Ixla-how-do-you-spell-these-buggers-name). I may even chuck in a "fishy" demon if they hang around too long in Slooblop).

A question you'll have to answer regarding kuo-toa is if they want to be sane. Remember their religion and their insanity are entwined; becoming sane means changing their entire worldview and reevaluating everything they think they know. It's not implausible that a creature faced with that choice might say "screw it, I'll stay crazy", especially when all their friends and family are already crazy.

[INDYSTAR188]

A question you'll have to answer regarding kuo-toa is if they want to be sane. Remember their religion and their insanity are entwined; becoming sane means changing their entire worldview and reevaluating everything they think they know. It's not implausible that a creature faced with that choice might say "screw it, I'll stay crazy", especially when all their friends and family are already crazy.

This assumes they know they're crazy to begin with. I think in this context 'crazy' means acting outside of normal societal expectations. So in a certain respect Shuushar is the crazy one and I believe the module implies other kuo-toa feel that way about him. Now... whether he can use the whole Leemogoogon disaster as evidence that society has to change... well I guess thats campaign dependent.

[Shining Wrath]

This assumes they know they're crazy to begin with. I think in this context 'crazy' means acting outside of normal societal expectations. So in a certain respect Shuushar is the crazy one and I believe the module implies other kuo-toa feel that way about him. Now... whether he can use the whole Leemogoogon disaster as evidence that society has to change... well I guess thats campaign dependent.

No, in this context crazy means "In a world where real gods manifest their powers in visible ways on a daily basis, they invent their own". That is, their perceptions of reality are incongruent with reality.

[Falcon X]

Thanks Falcon. I actually created a 5e version of Many-as-One for my previous campaign :)
Gotta say, Many-as-One has a lot of utility in this campaign.
If you read the Drizzt novels (Archmage specifically), you know that Gromph Baenre was manipulated into summoning the demon lords by his psionicist friend who regularly hung out with mind flayers. With Matron Mother Baenre's personal assistant also being a mind flayer, it's not a stretch to say that they might be pulling the strings of this demonic intrusion (Them and Lolth, of course).

Now, if you take into account that the consciousness behind the Cranium Rats is actually the Mind Flayer queen AND the fact that Wererat lycanthropy is becoming a big thing down in the underdark, Many-as-One is a shoe-in to be added as a sub-plot.

In my game, Many-as-One could enthrall all rodent-kind (including one of my player's pet intelligent rat), as well as the were-rats.

[solomani]

So my players now want to help the survivors and THEN ask if they could spare any food, water and a boat. I think this a better approach considering the party are all good aligned.

They also want a guide. Just not sure if this is realistic. On the one hand there could very well be a kuotoa willing to make a buck or just get away from Slooblubop for a while. On the other hand every "man" would conceivably be needed to rebuild and work together to survive. I suspect they would be deathly scared of the lake for the foreseeable future as well.

Providing a map and a banged up boat if the party helps the town sounds like a reasonable compromise. Thoughts?